ChilliJon posted:

The problem is GB has to have a historically great defense or they can't win a Super Bowl?  

Though it was a really good defense, I don't think of them as historically great. There was talent, and it was the offense that season that had to pull together for that team to win it all, but it wasn't like they were a juggernaut defense. 

The comparison is to illustrate just how bad this defense ended up being. And that stat making the rounds  about in Aaron Rodgers' 7 playoff losses, the defense has given up an average of 36+ ppg is the most telling of them all. The one year their defense was able to keep them in games the offense struggled in, they win it all. 4 times Rodgers gets them to OT. 

I don't think you're completely wrong about the Patriots defense being system and not necessarily talent a huge talent advantage in their current incarnation - for fu*k sakes Shea McClellin is starting at LB. but that's also why I think Atlanta is going to beat them like a drum, too.

But you look back on those 3 SBs they had in the 2000s and you wouldn't say that. Their secondary was loaded with Law, Harrison, Samuel, their front was devastating with Bruschi, Seymour, Johnson, Wilfork, Vrabel... those were really talented defenses. 

I just had a bacon wrapped cheese curd

If you gave Dom bacon and cheese curds he'd make tomato soup that tasted like cabbage. It would start off promising but taste like **** at the end. 

I guess I'm sort of a Dom apologist- Not that I think there aren't better possibilities but I understand the strategic thinking behind his defense. It's devised to be competitive when at a talent disadvantage. It's supposed to replace the "twitchiness" and power of dominant players with deception and unpredictability. But everyone has to be situationally assured and I rarely see that.

Football players as a group are not the most intellectually inclined. It's a physical game and most of them have succeeded by physically dominating their opponent since childhood. Because of the reduced practice regimen of the current CBA,  recognition through repetition is a thing of the past. Now, a defense might see a particular scout team look once in preparation for a game.

Does anyone know what restrictions are placed on teams by the CBA for things like classroom and film study?

grignon posted:

Does anyone know what restrictions are placed on teams by the CBA for things like classroom and film study?

I think the CBA restricts when they can be forced to be in GB, but it doesn't preclude them from film study on their own. Having vets to help with film study is very important and GB is deprived of vets in the secondary, having lost woodson, tramon, house, hayward, and shields over the last few seasons

I could study film all day, but I haven't an effing clue what I'm looking at or looking for....having a vet to share his insight is critical in the training of youthful  players. Passing of the torch

Adding to Satori's comment... CBA restricts organized (staff led) workouts/practices. Also, I believe there are some subtle differences between off-season and in-season for being in the facility.

I could study film all day, but I haven't an effing clue what I'm looking at or looking for....having a vet to share his insight is critical in the training of youthful  players. Passing of the torch

I can get you in contact with Joe Arrigo if you want?

So much for all those strides on defense in ATL. I know, a silly question, but could MM find a role for Smith somewhere on Capers staff,?

He coached up the LB corp in Denver as well.

Report: Richard Smith won’t return as Falcons defensive coordinator

Getty Images

Falcons Defensive Coordinator Richard Smith will not be back in his role with the team next season, Alex Marvez of The Sporting News reported.

The report said Smith could end up taking another job on staff but won’t be back as coordinator after the Falcons’ Super Bowl meltdown. It also said Falcons defensive line coach Bryan Cox will be dismissed.

Smith has been with the team for two seasons, and Cox has been with the team for the last three seasons.

These moves mean the Falcons will follow their Super Bowl appearance with significant staff changes on both sides of the ball. Kyle Shanahan was hired as head coach of the 49ers after two years as offensive coordinator, and the Falcons officially announced Steve Sarkisian as his replacement on Tuesday. Per multiple reports, quarterbacks coach Matt LaFleur will also leave the team to become offensive coordinator with the Rams.

The Falcons’ defense had made significant strides under Smith, who was previously a coordinator in Miami and Houston. He joined head coach Dan Quinn’s first staff with the Falcons after four seasons as the linebackers coach in Denver.

Cox had previously coached in Tampa Bay, Cleveland and with the Jets following a long playing career as a linebacker.

Falcon defense certainly didn't play well in the second half but that has a bit of an Ed Donatell scapegoat feel to it. They bleed the clock, kick the FG and go up two scores and he probably keeps his job. 

Smith built a pretty good defense that improved a lot as the season progressed, and he did it with a lot of starts from his rookie class.  Might be an over reaction to the second half meltdown in the SB.

It will be interesting to see if the Falcons can continue their progression as a favorite in the NFC in 2017 with all of the coaching changes this off season.

Does seem like quite the over reaction. A very young defense gives up 28 points...but scores 7 themselves? Net loss of 21 pts. with the most prolific offense in football on the other side of the ball seems like a pretty good showing to me. Ryan's fumble & the debacle on their last drive cost the Falcons the game, not their defense.

packerboi posted:

So much for all those strides on defense in ATL. I know, a silly question, but could MM find a role for Smith somewhere on Capers staff,?

He coached up the LB corp in Denver as well.

Report: Richard Smith won’t return as Falcons defensive coordinator

Posted by Zac Jackson on February 8, 2017, 12:22 AM EST

Getty Images

Falcons Defensive Coordinator Richard Smith will not be back in his role with the team next season, Alex Marvez of The Sporting News reported.

The report said Smith could end up taking another job on staff but won’t be back as coordinator after the Falcons’ Super Bowl meltdown. It also said Falcons defensive line coach Bryan Cox will be dismissed.

Smith has been with the team for two seasons, and Cox has been with the team for the last three seasons.

These moves mean the Falcons will follow their Super Bowl appearance with significant staff changes on both sides of the ball. Kyle Shanahan was hired as head coach of the 49ers after two years as offensive coordinator, and the Falcons officially announced Steve Sarkisian as his replacement on Tuesday. Per multiple reports, quarterbacks coach Matt LaFleur will also leave the team to become offensive coordinator with the Rams.

The Falcons’ defense had made significant strides under Smith, who was previously a coordinator in Miami and Houston. He joined head coach Dan Quinn’s first staff with the Falcons after four seasons as the linebackers coach in Denver.

Cox had previously coached in Tampa Bay, Cleveland and with the Jets following a long playing career as a linebacker.

Shanahan blew it with 1 and 10 on NE 23, then losing 20+ yards and 2nd and 3rd and long. Should have taken the easy 3 and go up by 11. I think the 49ers are going to be bad with Shanahan and Lynch. 

FLPACKER posted:

Does seem like quite the over reaction. A very young defense gives up 28 points...but scores 7 themselves? Net loss of 21 pts. with the most prolific offense in football on the other side of the ball seems like a pretty good showing to me. Ryan's fumble & the debacle on their last drive cost the Falcons the game, not their defense.

Patriots are unpredictable, efficient but not prolific. 

FLPACKER posted:

Does seem like quite the over reaction. 

Exactly.  He should be expected to have like 5 or 6 meltdowns in the playoffs before he loses his job.  

makes you wonder how much was the cd, quinn, etc...I thought the d was gassed by the end of the game, the o was never on the field.  if you look, alot of creative blitzes and man was that 45 fast to the ball or the tackle.  i actually looked at the boss and said ' that's why gb is not in this game' in 10 we had 90 making those stuffs and getting pressures, 52 was balling...

Schefter indicated this morning that this has been in the works for a while

And yet Dom Capers is still gainfully employed. 

Atlanta ran 46 total plays. Pats ran 47 plays after their 46th play. It's not like they can fire Shanahan. 

bigdoggyjude posted:

FLPACKER posted:

Does seem like quite the over reaction. A very young defense gives up 28 points...but scores 7 themselves? Net loss of 21 pts. with the most prolific offense in football on the other side of the ball seems like a pretty good showing to me. Ryan's fumble & the debacle on their last drive cost the Falcons the game, not their defense.

Patriots are unpredictable, efficient but not prolific. 

I was referring to the Falcons offense

Hmmm... Why not trade out Capers for Smith? It seems Smith knows how to get something out of young players that we haven't seen out of Capers. Did Smith fail to call coverages to take away the middle of the field late? Probably (assuming his players were doing as asked), but we've seen that before time after time from Capers. Other than that, I liked what I saw out of the Falcons' D. They played hard, they stifled the Pats' offense until they got tired, etc. The loss was more on horrible play calling and perhaps a young team that mentally just couldn't quite overcome the will of the Pats. My guess is that the Falcons' D would have been even stronger this year. Anyone have faith that our D will improve next year? 

Yes if they fire Capers. 

I read that Quinn had been calling the D since mid season.

FLPACKER posted:

bigdoggyjude posted:

FLPACKER posted:

Does seem like quite the over reaction. A very young defense gives up 28 points...but scores 7 themselves? Net loss of 21 pts. with the most prolific offense in football on the other side of the ball seems like a pretty good showing to me. Ryan's fumble & the debacle on their last drive cost the Falcons the game, not their defense.

Patriots are unpredictable, efficient but not prolific. 

I was referring to the Falcons offense

makes sense now that I re-read

Michael Rodney ‏@PackersNotes 2h2 hours ago

ChilliJon posted:

The problem is GB has to have a historically great defense or they can't win a Super Bowl? 

For the **** of it  how many defensive players on the Patriots and Falcons roster make that team? Vic Beasley and Donte Hightower? Maybe? But they are still playing. 

 

Shea McClellin and Kyle Van Noy were important contributors to the Patriots defense, guys from the NFC North who were misused by the Bears and Lions and put on the scrap heap. A good Director of Pro Personnel recognizes and convinces his GM side to grab those guys.  

pkr_north posted:

makes you wonder how much was the cd, quinn, etc...I thought the d was gassed by the end of the game, the o was never on the field.  if you look, alot of creative blitzes and man was that 45 fast to the ball or the tackle.  i actually looked at the boss and said ' that's why gb is not in this game' in 10 we had 90 making those stuffs and getting pressures, 52 was balling...

The Falcons D is built like the Packers D: Play fast and you'll play with a lead, the offense will make sure you get your rest. The Atlanta linebackers played much better than Green Bay's down the stretch and the had a (relatively) healthy secondary (missing their Shields, but had the rest).

Herschel posted:

ChilliJon posted:

The problem is GB has to have a historically great defense or they can't win a Super Bowl? 

For the **** of it  how many defensive players on the Patriots and Falcons roster make that team? Vic Beasley and Donte Hightower? Maybe? But they are still playing. 

 

Shea McClellin and Kyle Van Noy were important contributors to the Patriots defense, guys from the NFC North who were misused by the Bears and Lions and put on the scrap heap. A good Director of Pro Personnel recognizes and convinces his GM side to grab those guys.  

I'm sure it had nothing to do with Patricia and Bill B knowing how, where, and when to use them. 

In his post on Shields' release, HHCD provided some insight into how the players view Capers' defense at times: 

_ha21  I only give respect when respect is due and Soulja ima miss ya. Thank you for showing me the game on the field and wit des Babies. Thank you for showing me what real is and being solid. Shields thank you for showing up every game and never complaining. Thank you for always stepping up to the plate at any giving time. Thank you for having my back. Thank you for lining up and playing whatever Dom capers called rather WE liked it or not you was all in. Thank you for being 1K and showing me what representing the G is all about and always remaining the same you told me stay down till my time came and it's here. I'll never look back or stoop down to fit in with nobody who ain't on my level I love you G dawg. As long as I'm in this league and you free up from the family and baby girls We hangin live the game you love through me. I'm gone get loose. God100 ENJOY YOUR TIME BRUDDA!

S A L U T E S O U L J A 37 Cheesehead 4eva thanks for paving the Way STICK.

#Samshields37 #God100 #Cheesehead #Gopackgo #MIAMI #SOTAMADE #SPEEDKILLS

Yeah, I'll bet the love Dom....

As a player, you never like every call that a coordinator makes. Dat a fac 

Does anybody have a HaHa-English translator?

You should hear how Goaline and I talk to our friends when not using our whitey translator. 

I guess English Comp 101 isn't a core requirement at Alabama.

 

Shea McClellin and Kyle Van Noy were important contributors to the Patriots defense, guys from the NFC North who were misused by the Bears and Lions and put on the scrap heap. A good Director of Pro Personnel recognizes and convinces his GM side to grab those guys.  

So, Elliot Wolf sucks?

Yeah, cuz everyone knows the great Shea McClellin was misused by the bears.

Goalline posted:

 

Shea McClellin and Kyle Van Noy were important contributors to the Patriots defense, guys from the NFC North who were misused by the Bears and Lions and put on the scrap heap. A good Director of Pro Personnel recognizes and convinces his GM side to grab those guys.  

So, Elliot Wolf sucks?

We don't know.  Not enough samples.

Packdog posted:

As a player, you never like every call that a coordinator makes. Dat a fac 

Woodson bitched about the defense, then went on to win DPOY in it. Cullen Jenkins bitched about the defense, then signed a massive contract because of it and never again reached the same level of success despite playing for Perry Fewell the Pats-slaying DC in NYG.

Based on this trend, HaHa should be a pro bowler soon-ish.

Wait, he already is a pro bowler ? Well OK then, bitch all ya like Haha...

Agree. Much ado bout nuttin.

Engrish is gooder to speek.

Ha Ha is Asian? 

Defense bends like Arumirum