Well, more important than you, but that's not saying much. 
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Fedya posted:I don't consider myself a victim; I just think it's funny how Elko Bong follows me around waiting for me to post so he can show off his righteous indignation.
If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
You're directing that at the wrong poster.
This will always be my favorite poster:
Great actress!
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon...
Wish You Were Here
Animals
Dark Side Of The Moon
Meddle
Relics
Ummagumma
If I had to rank them.
Hungry5 posted:
Give the kid a break, he players football for the Packers, not like he is running the country, Eh?
Wait, Ha Ha is .... Canadian?
To this very day I have not decided to support or condemn Capers. I just don't know. I read both supporters and detractors and they both make sense.
I still lean toward to "Players not Plays" when it comes to defense. I really think that if Capers had better (read faster) players I could better judge the defense and its coaches. But at the same time we have had so many high draft picks on defense that one would think they would be better.
One thing to note is that the NFL never stays the same. And the rest of the league has draft picks too and usually before ours.
PackerPatrick posted:I still lean toward to "Players not Plays" when it comes to defense. I really think that if Capers had better (read faster) players I could better judge the defense and its coaches. But at the same time we have had so many high draft picks on defense that one would think they would be better.
The draft is a crap shoot, spending picks guarantees nothing...and the challenge the Packers have is drafting late. The plug and play defensive players are mostly gone by the time pick 25 rolls around, its just the nature of the beast.
What's ironical is that X4 rips on all the players, this guy sucks, that guy sucks, but they they turn around and excoriate the DC for not delivering a shut down defense. I guess people just like to kvetch and X4 is the chosen repository for all their misery. We are blessed
The top DCs are great when they have great players, they suck when they have crappy players. Wade Phillips got fired in Dallas after the Packers dropped 45 pts on them. They ran him out of town for sucking. The a couple years later, he's in Denver with an all star Defense and once again, he's the bee's knees
Firing Capers won't fix the defense, adding talent will. But adding talent alone may or may not be enough- hence the review of Capers performance inside 1265.
I just want a better defense and I know with certainty that nobody here has a handle on how to do that, despite their claims to the contrary
It's not the X's and O's it's the Jimmys and Joes.
Exactly, Capers doesn't matter.
Might as well replace him then
Indeed, and spending a little time coaching youth sports really highlighted that truism about jimmy's and joes in my view
However, many here feel that if you had better X's and O's, the jimmy's and joes would deliver better results and play above their skill levels. There's certainly some merit to that, but not nearly as much as the FireCapers crowd would have you believe.
It will be interesting to see what the folks at 1265 Lombardi avenue come up with, FA opens up in a month and some will be leaving and others arriving in an attempt to build a more consistent defense - and one that can generate turnovers like they did during the 8 game Running of the Table.
Dr.-Ka-Bong posted:Exactly, Capers doesn't matter.
Might as well replace him then
And what happens when you change a DC ? You change out many /most of the position coaches, some of whom are quite talented. And the scheme changes. And the players you need for that scheme changes too . And how you draft and address Free Agency. And everybody is back to square one.
It typically takes 1-3 seasons for the front office and the new coaches to come together in having the right players and having enough time in the defense to really know it and stop thinking so much. We're talking about winning Championships and being able to beat the best teams in the playoffs - that's a really high bar.
I'm not saying you can't / shouldn't fire capers - I am saying I'm not certain you've all done the full thought experiment to appreciate what changing a DC does to a team that is a Final Four participant
The bears hired Vic Fangio because their defense was ranked 31st and was sucking balls. Year 1, they moved up to # 20 in points allowed. Year 2 ? Took a step backwards to # 24 defense on their way to a 3-13 record.
Dallas dumped Wade Phillips and hired super-duper Rob Ryan, another X4 favorite and he sucked so bad they had to fire him too. Rex Ryan ? Fired for sucking. Dick LeBeau ? Fired for sucking. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Just firing the DC doesn't fix the underlying problem(s) and none of the teams that changed DCs in 2015 were represented in the 2016 playoffs. ATL fired Mike Smith, hired defensive guru Dan Quinn of Seattle defense fame and 2 years into his reign, they delivered the 27th ranked defense and collapsed in the Super Bowl.
The whole apparatus is starting to stink.
What's it smell like to the Oracle of Olfactory ?
I do worry that if we dump Capers we might get a different outcome than the ****ty defense we've seen for the last 5 years.
What if you get worse ? History suggests that is just as likely, maybe even more likely.
Over the last 5 years, GB defense was 11, 24, 13, 12, 21st in pts allowed. They've also been top 5 in turnovers generated since 2012.
So if you consider 11, 12, 13 as ****ty, that doesn't leave much room left for not- ****ty. You've been on record as saying you just want "competent", but when we've had the 11th, 12th, 13th ranked defenses, we still didn't get the outcome we all want - another Title in Titletown.
You are certain that changing out Capers will take us to the promised land, I am not nearly as certain and history is littered with examples where it absolutely didn't work...Here's the coaching carousel in Seattle:
2008 Holmgren/ Marshall in Seattle, 25th ranked defense - both coaches fired
2009 Mora / Gus Bradley - 25th ranked defense - HC fired
2010 Carroll / Gus Bradley 25th ranked defense - not fired
John Schneider shows up, grabs some killer defensive players and the next year Seattle is #7 in points allowed.
Gus Bradley leaves Seattle (and their talented defensive players) and goes to J-ville and sucks balls so bad, he gets fired.
Satori posted:What's it smell like to the Oracle of Olfactory ?
Like Oreos left in a cookie jar too long so they're all stale and gross. Looks delicious, tastes like sugary paste.
If it gets worse we get blown out more and still don't go to the superbowl.
Herschel posted:Hungry5 posted:
Give the kid a break, he players football for the Packers, not like he is running the country, Eh?
Wait, Ha Ha is .... Canadian?
Fridley native.
Hockey was his first love.
So HaHa calls out teammate(s) for not playing the plays called, and x4 complains about the language he used? Essentially no comments about the context of those tweets.
Maybe HaHa was talking about Randall?
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if players are constantly not doing what the play call is, that is coaching.
coaching coaching coaching coaching
If it happens once in awhile, players. All the time, coaching.
Dr.-Ka-Bong posted:If it gets worse we get blown out more and still don't go to the superbowl.
Obviously I need to switch strategeries and utilize the plan so eloquently laid out in Room 12 A of this Monty python skit....
I wonder what our defense would look like with some faster CB's? Better, I guess. I would be happier with better. Yet we cannot grow them from the slow ones we have, new ones are gone before we pick in the draft, and TT wont pay for them in FA. All we can hope for is some other team screws up somewhere personnel wise. And then next hope we find a "Sam Shields" as a UFDA.
So its up to Capers to "Coach them up". Or we win with lots of shootouts by outscoring the other teams. The defense gets stuck in soft zone coverage prevent mode and we try to hold the TOP on offense as a sort of defensive plan.
Dr.-Ka-Bong posted:if players are constantly not doing what the play call is, that is coaching.
coaching coaching coaching coaching
If it happens once in awhile, players. All the time, coaching.
So, Whitt then? Or maybe Burnett or Ryan, who's making the calls on the field?
I wonder what our defense would look like with some healthy CB's?
#duhvantasyndrome
Satori posted:Indeed, and spending a little time coaching youth sports really highlighted that truism about jimmy's and joes in my view
Amen. 7th grade boys BB team last year did not win a game (0-15), competitive in about 2 out of 15 (losing by single digits). This year, same roster with 2 additional players (good ones), 8-1 and beat 5 teams from last year (by average of 12 points) that beat us by 15-20 points last year. About a 25 point swing.
Trust me, I'm not that much better of a coach.
65 players appeared in games for the Packers in 2016
31 were in their 1st or 2nd year in the NFL. 19 of them on defense. 6 of the 19 were DBs.
I get the hatred/frustration with Dom, and a change might be the right move. But, here we are in mid Feb and Capers is still the DC. I'd like to see what he can do with health and experience.
Don't know about the health and expirence factor but we are going to see him.
#heaintgoingnowhere
Dr.-Ka-Bong posted:If it gets worse we get blown out more and still don't go to the superbowl.
As Clayton Williams once said, "If it's inevitable, just relax and enjoy it".
worst campaign comment ever
EC Pack posted:Amen. 7th grade boys BB team last year did not win a game (0-15), competitive in about 2 out of 15 (losing by single digits). This year, same roster with 2 additional players (good ones), 8-1 and beat 5 teams from last year (by average of 12 points) that beat us by 15-20 points last year. About a 25 point swing.
Trust me, I'm not that much better of a coach.
Dr.-Ka-Bong posted:
Oh, by the way, which one's pink?
Which what?
They are all pink.
Don't know if we'll ever know if the issues are with Dom or the experience/talent level of players he's given. We have heard media and other players comment on the old, stale nature of his play calling. It's also nearly unheard of to see a staff with this much team success have no coaches hired elsewhere in 8 years.
This peek behind the current from Haha may be no more than venting, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is a wider spread frustration in that locker room.