Gay Athletes Coming out of the Closet

Pistol GBMember

Sorry Coach, figured you were ripping me for changing his message.

I re-read it, and he really did do it just to raise awareness or whatever, and I still don't see how it relates to professional sports. Has homophobia ruined sports somehow? What's the point?

quote:
Originally posted by Red Dawn:
Glad to see Commissioner Stern is standing behind him.

Against what? In favor of what?

4/29/1310:42 PM

CoachAt the head of the table

quote:
Originally posted by PackerHawk:
quote:
Originally posted by Red Dawn:
Glad to see Commissioner Stern is standing behind him.

Whoa, hello!

BTW, next to come out - EVERY SOCCER PLAYER EVER.

4/29/1310:48 PM

CoachAt the head of the table

quote:
Originally posted by Pistol GB:
Sorry Coach, figured you were ripping me for changing his message.

No apology necessary. To me, at least.

quote:

Re-read it, he really did it just to raise awareness or whatever, and I still don't see how it relates to professional sports. Has homophobia ruined sports somehow? What's the point?

He's the first gay american team sports athlete to acknowledge his sexuality while still playing. Has homophobia helped sports somehow? If you don't see the point, then you don't truly understand the significance.

quote:
Originally posted by Red Dawn:
Glad to see Commissioner Stern is standing behind him.

quote:

Against what? In favor of what?

Bigotry. Acceptance.

4/29/1310:54 PM

Pistol GBMember

quote:
Originally posted by PackerHawk:
BTW, next to come out - EVERY SOCCER PLAYER EVER.

Women's volleyball: there IS no closet.

4/29/1310:57 PM

Pistol GBMember

quote:
Originally posted by Coach:
He's the first gay american team sports athlete to acknowledge his sexuality while still playiny. Has homophobia helped sports somehow? If you don't see the point, then you don't you don't truly understand the significance.

I disagree that it is significant. It is irrelevant to sports. He's using his celebrity status for a political purpose.

Bottom line is, his sexuality is none of my business. Nor mine his.

4/29/1311:05 PM

Pistol GBMember

quote:
Originally posted by Coach:
No apology necessary. To me, at least.

Um, you said it was sarcasm I missed. I was being polite to you. Won't happen again.

4/29/1311:09 PM

CoachAt the head of the table

quote:
Originally posted by Pistol GB:
I disagree that it is significant. It is irrelevant to sports. He's using his celebrity status for a political purpose.

Bottom line is, his sexuality is none of my business. Nor mine his.

I agree with your last two sentences. However, he was the one who decided to share it. He's allowed to do that. He's the one who is going to take the slings and arrows. And hopefully support.

I strongly disagree with your first sentence, and I disagree with your second. Sports is not divorced from culture.

You have every right to form your own opinion about any of the above.

As do others.

It's just not best to get offended if it's challenged.

4/29/1311:52 PM

CoachAt the head of the table

quote:
Originally posted by Pistol GB:
quote:
Originally posted by Coach:
No apology necessary. To me, at least.

Um, you said it was sarcasm I missed. I was being polite to you. Won't happen again.

I didn't miss yours, and you didn't miss mine.

There is no need for an empty threat, counselor. We both know we aren't exactly friendly, but that doesn't mean there is any reason for hostility.

4/29/1311:57 PM

sawMember

Big deal, the real question is who will be the first x4 member to open the closet door, well . . . I think I have found our pioneer in one of the draft discussions.

Wolfpack -"I always did like Lacy things"

Maybe I misunderstood his statement but there is nothing wrong with that.

4/30/1312:11 AM

CoachAt the head of the table

4/30/1312:13 AM

Pistol GBMember

quote:
Originally posted by Coach:
It's just not best to get offended if it's challenged.

Offended!

4/30/1312:17 AM

CoachAt the head of the table

quote:
Originally posted by Pistol GB:
I was being polite to you. Won't happen again.

No edge there at all.

4/30/1312:28 AM

Timmy!TIMMAAAAYYY!!

quote:
Originally posted by Pistol GB:
...I don't understand these kinds of announcements. I don't see the relevance...

I don't either, Pistol
The the thing is, nobody was asking, most probably don't care, but he's still compelled to make an "announcement".

4/30/131:19 AM

Pistol GBMember

quote:
Originally posted by Coach:
No apology necessary. To me, at least.
***
If you don't see the point, then you don't truly understand the significance.
***
Bigotry. Acceptance.

Dude. You want me to apologize to homosexuals because I don't understand bigotry.

Forget the "edge," then. Try this: take your passive-aggressive douchebag B.S. and stick it deep and hard.

And be sure to get the last word in.

4/30/131:22 AM

CoachAt the head of the table

I didn't ask or demand you apologize to anyone, I just said you didn't owe me one. Others may have a different take.

No anger in that response either? Why U mad, bro?

You kept your word at least.

As you wish.

4/30/131:26 AM

CoachAt the head of the table

quote:
Originally posted by Timmy!:
I don't either, Pistol
The the thing is, nobody was asking, most probably don't care, but he's still compelled to make an "announcement".

What "compelled" him?

If you truly don't care about his sexuality, what issue do you have with him acknowledging it publicly?

Seriously. Why should he have to hide it?

4/30/131:31 AM

oshbaulUltimate Member

Don't frighten the horses.

4/30/131:31 AM

CoachAt the head of the table

Anything but that, Osh.

4/30/131:33 AM

oshbaulUltimate Member

Locker rooms as bastions of extreme physical passion without having it be sexual,

4/30/131:37 AM

CoachAt the head of the table

4/30/131:41 AM

oshbaulUltimate Member

Lombardi said: He was born that way, and your going to have to go through me.

4/30/131:49 AM

CoachAt the head of the table

We would accomplish many more things if we did not think of them as impossible.
-VL

4/30/131:58 AM

Pistol GBMember

quote:
Seriously. Why should he have to hide it?

He doesn't. That is exactly the point. He doesn't have to hide it or announce it.

It's 2013. No one cares. Except the media.

4/30/132:30 AM

CoachAt the head of the table

And Jason Collins isn't.

Hiding it. After a twelve year NBA career. Finally.

Why do you care, or care to comment about whether or not he decided to "announce it"?

"Don't ask, don't tell" just isn't tenable any longer. And it shouldn't be.

It is indeed 2013. And yet it still took that long for an American team sport athlete to acknowledge his own sexuality while still active. More than 50 years after Jackie Robinson. That's depressing.

The announcement isn't a media creation, it's history. And significant.

I'm saddened you don't appear to grasp that.

4/30/134:11 AM

TschmackMember

Good for Collins and good for David Stern and others stepping up to support him.

4/30/135:10 AM

HerschelMember

quote:
Originally posted by Pistol GB:
quote:
Seriously. Why should he have to hide it?

He doesn't. That is exactly the point. He doesn't have to hide it or announce it.

It's 2013. No one cares. Except the media.

This is not true. Look at all the groups who have tried to put forth Constitutional bans on same-sex marriage, etc. Look at all the groups publicly denouncing gays as 'crimes against nature'.

No one should care, but many people still want gays relegated out of siight/out of mind.

4/30/136:26 AM

IowacheeseKeen Insight

quote:
Originally posted by PackerHawk:
quote:
Originally posted by Red Dawn:
Glad to see Commissioner Stern is standing behind him.

Whoa, hello!

BTW, next to come out - EVERY SOCCER PLAYER EVER.

4/30/136:59 AM

da YooperMember

Overlooking the 13 year old "gay" comments

, I back Collins. Good for him!. I hope that there are no narrow-minded idiots out there who will force others to stay in the closet for fear of reprisals. Just PLAY BALL!

4/30/138:01 AM

da YooperMember

quote:
Originally posted by Herschel:
quote:
Originally posted by Pistol GB:
quote:
Seriously. Why should he have to hide it?

He doesn't. That is exactly the point. He doesn't have to hide it or announce it.

It's 2013. No one cares. Except the media.

This is not true. Look at all the groups who have tried to put forth Constitutional bans on same-sex marriage, etc. Look at all the groups publicly denouncing gays as 'crimes against nature'.

No one should care, but many people still want gays relegated out of siight/out of mind.

Didn't they try that with women's right to vote, equal opportunity for women in the workforce, color barriers for African Americans, etc? Who is the next group to try to squash, because they don't fit the mold of the old, white, Christian, heterosexual, European-heritage "Full-blooded American"?

4/30/138:06 AM

TdogProspective Member

a comment I've been using quite a bit lately it seems: sometimes I wish being homosexual was a choice. because I might be tempted to play for the home team just to piss off more close-minded people.

I'm encouraged by the conversations I see (online) and hear in my 16 y/o daughter's age group. They don't give a rat's ass about someone's sexuality, doesn't phase them one bit, male or female, straight or gay - no different than finding out someone prefers almonds over pistachios.

that's all I have to say about that.

4/30/138:31 AM

Music CityMember

I think the biggest issue is how the Christian belief gets twisted. Twisted from within and without.

The believe on homosexuality is that it is a sin. It makes sense to view it that way- it is counter intuitive to the concept of being fruitful and multiplying. And that's where it should end. Sin. Christians too often take the sinner and tie them to the sin. It creates all sorts of horrifying outcomes.

And that's how a discussion like this gets emotional and ultimately unproductive. Gays are angry at the way they have been treated. They should be. But this anger steers the conversation away from adult and into playground. Just listening to gays on the radio shows after he news broke (670 The Score) and how angry they were when these moronic callers would say some BS against it. It makes me cringe. But I think we're at a point where we can start changing the tenor of the conversation and have a rational discussion about it. It would help both sides in their understanding I think.

Christ promoted love. That means everyone. But it is also ok to call it sin. We all sin. Everyone's sin is different. In the end, I believe we all have to account for our sins through repentance. And I am and will be asking for as much forgiveness as anyone...

4/30/138:32 AM

Shoeless JoeMember

quote:
have a rational discussion about it.

Impossible, especially when one side bases their argument on a work of fiction.

4/30/138:38 AM

michiganjoeMember

The shift in public opinion on the issue that has occurred over the past several years has been remarkable. It's really just part of societal evolution and there will always be those uncomfortable with it and who fight the change.

4/30/138:45 AM

Salmon DaveMember

quote:
Originally posted by Shoeless Joe:
quote:
have a rational discussion about it.

Impossible, especially when one side bases their argument on a work of fiction.

Even more difficult when one side of the discussion insists on starting the debate from the position that people on the other side are "sinners" simply for being who they are. If that's where the discussion starts, it's almost impossible for it to go anywhere worthwhile.

4/30/138:46 AM

Shoeless JoeMember

Word.

4/30/138:48 AM

packerboiI lick rainbows

quote:
Originally posted by Salmon Dave:
Even more difficult when one side of the discussion insists on starting the debate from the position that people on the other side are "sinners" simply for being who they are. If that's where the discussion starts, it's almost impossible for it to go anywhere worthwhile.

Amen brother. It'd be like calling a left handed person, someone with green eyes, or a ginger red head a sinner. Those people had as much "choice" in that as gay people had in their sexual orientation.

4/30/139:06 AM

HenryYou rang?

quote:
Originally posted by Pistol GB:
Not to sound crass or whatever, but I don't really care what an athlete's sexuality is.

I don't understand these kinds of announcements. I don't see the relevance.

"Here I am, don't persecute me"? You're the one who brought it up!

It shouldn't be an issue but when people are currently discriminated against and hide their identity in fear because of who they chose to love it's very relevant.

Just being out could get you ostracized, beaten or killed. That's why it's a big deal.

4/30/139:14 AM

HenryYou rang?

quote:
Originally posted by Music City:
I think the biggest issue is how the Christian belief gets twisted. Twisted from within and without.

The believe on homosexuality is that it is a sin. It makes sense to view it that way- it is counter intuitive to the concept of being fruitful and multiplying. And that's where it should end. Sin. Christians too often take the sinner and tie them to the sin. It creates all sorts of horrifying outcomes.

And that's how a discussion like this gets emotional and ultimately unproductive. Gays are angry at the way they have been treated. They should be. But this anger steers the conversation away from adult and into playground. Just listening to gays on the radio shows after he news broke (670 The Score) and how angry they were when these moronic callers would say some BS against it. It makes me cringe. But I think we're at a point where we can start changing the tenor of the conversation and have a rational discussion about it. It would help both sides in their understanding I think.

Christ promoted love. That means everyone. But it is also ok to call it sin. We all sin. Everyone's sin is different. In the end, I believe we all have to account for our sins through repentance. And I am and will be asking for as much forgiveness as anyone...

There are so many ridiculous holes in this statement, especially in a religious context, I could drive a gay pride parade through it.

This is the proverbial "hate the sin, love the sinner" cop out. Do you really "love" the sinner or do you just use this bull**** as a way to say you're "peaceful" as you backhandedly condemn and marginalize a whole segment of the population?

If you loved the sinner then you would willingly vote for full equality under the law. Or does the 3500 year old goat herder god have a unsaid set of rules?

Why should LGBT people repent? Are you saying they are cloaked in sin the instances they pop out their mother's womb because of their genetic makeup? Hell, I don't know which part of Calvinist Taliban propaganda to start with if that's the case.

4/30/139:41 AM

PakrzFREEZE!

The gay thing is a non-isse for me and always has been. I couldn't care less about another person's sexual orientation.

4/30/139:45 AM

H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter

quote:
Originally posted by Music City:
I think the biggest issue is how the Christian belief gets twisted. Twisted from within and without.

The believe on homosexuality is that it is a sin. It makes sense to view it that way- it is counter intuitive to the concept of being fruitful and multiplying. And that's where it should end. Sin. Christians too often take the sinner and tie them to the sin. It creates all sorts of horrifying outcomes.

And that's how a discussion like this gets emotional and ultimately unproductive. Gays are angry at the way they have been treated. They should be. But this anger steers the conversation away from adult and into playground. Just listening to gays on the radio shows after he news broke (670 The Score) and how angry they were when these moronic callers would say some BS against it. It makes me cringe. But I think we're at a point where we can start changing the tenor of the conversation and have a rational discussion about it. It would help both sides in their understanding I think.

Christ promoted love. That means everyone. But it is also ok to call it sin. We all sin. Everyone's sin is different. In the end, I believe we all have to account for our sins through repentance. And I am and will be asking for as much forgiveness as anyone...

It's a belief and I think it is silly. As long as there are Christians who believe it to be a sin there is no hope of the two sides having a rational conversation. One side will always consider the other nut-bags.

As for your last paragraph. You must be Catholic.

4/30/139:58 AM

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