quote:Originally posted by Corageous-Ka-Bong:
is that the green stuff in lettuce, cause I hate lettuce
Not a tossed salad kind of guy?
Not a tossed salad kind of guy?
Not a tossed salad kind of guy?
quote:Originally posted by Pistol GB:quote:Originally posted by Goalline:quote:Originally posted by Pistol GB:quote:Originally posted by Coach:
No apology necessary. To me, at least.
***
If you don't see the point, then you don't truly understand the significance.
***
Bigotry. Acceptance.
Dude. You want me to apologize to homosexuals because I don't understand bigotry.
Forget the "edge," then. Try this: take your passive-aggressive douchebag B.S. and stick it deep and hard.
And be sure to get the last word in.
Your homophobia isn't as well hidden as you think, my dear.
You don't get it either. I'm so unjudgmental on this, I don't even believe it is an issue.
And where I live, it truly isn't. The State Senator for my district, Sen. Jack O'Connell, won back-to-back terms here in 2002 and 2006. He was openly gay, never had to announce it, his opponent never raised it as an issue, it was never an issue, period, for anyone. As it shouldn't be anywhere. That's pretty much the opposite of homophobia, my dear.
What I propose is not "Don't ask, Don't tell." It is: calling an announcement like this only reinforces the idea that there is something wrong with homosexuality, and pretends there is a legitimate debate to be had on the issue.
Obviously, I live in a different part of the Country.
...and completely oblivious to the **** that goes on in other parts of the country. I live and work in the Madison area. It don't get more accepting than that, my man, but I'm not ignorant enough to believe that the rest of the country lives this way.
quote:Originally posted by Corageous-Ka-Bong:
is that the green stuff in lettuce, cause I hate lettuce
You accidentally deleted the "posted by Al" part didn't you?
quote:What you described is worlds apart from what P'boi described and others I know that have been honest with themselves.
Perhaps I am illegitimate, then.
quote:Originally posted by Goalline:
...and completely oblivious to the **** that goes on in other parts of the country. I live and work in the Madison area. It don't get more accepting than that, my man, but I'm not ignorant enough to believe that the rest of the country lives this way.
Yeah was going to mention, I graduated from Madison, came straight to the Coast of California. Two places where bigotry doesn't get the time of day, and consequently, does not thrive.
Amazing how quiet it gets when you make the other side raise the issue.
quote:Originally posted by Goalline:
...and completely oblivious to the **** that goes on in other parts of the country. I live and work in the Madison area. It don't get more accepting than that, my man, but I'm not ignorant enough to believe that the rest of the country lives this way.
Goalline, you are right about different parts of the country being a lot different! My partner and I are glad to live in the Twin Cities, as it tends to be an open and accepting community as well. Every area has its haters, but people here for the most part are tolerant. Those that aren't tolerant are too Scandinavian to say much as they are all passive-aggressive -- they hate quietly. I think I've gotten more glares thrown my way for being a Packer fan than for being gay.
And neither is going to change!The important thing about Collins coming out is for the young people, whether straight or gay, to see a successful role model. Role models are out there, but many times they are silent or unidentified. For example, the famous photo of the three cops after the Boston bombing that appeared on the SI cover shows two men and a woman: the guy on the right has been married to his husband for five(?) years. He's a positive gay role model, yet how many knew he was gay? It takes a Jason Collins to get positive press coverage.
And I am getting some really good menu ideas and recipes from you guys!
Atta grrrl! Does that work?
Your description of the TC made me laugh. Ain't that the truth.
Your description of the TC made me laugh. Ain't that the truth.
Thanks, Henry. I have made one conversion: My partner used to be a Vikings fan, but since we have been together she has seen the error of her ways and converted to the Packers. I earned a green-and-gold toaster!
Aren't we all a little gay? I mean who likes to watch porn when the dude has a limp, flacid penis? (Thanks Ron White). Answer: No one. IC wants both dudes to have rock hard boners when he watches.
quote:Originally posted by Corageous-Ka-Bong:
is that the green stuff in lettuce, cause I hate lettuce
Smoked lettuce, man! Do it, it will change your life!
I have grilled red cabbage before, little olive oil, garlic and maytag blue cheese, does that count?
I will say a prayer for youquote:Originally posted by packerboi:quote:
During one counseling session, I told Britta (my counselor) that a voice in my head is saying, "I am gay. I am gay." She asked to talk to whomever was saying that. She asked, "Why do you keep saying you are gay?"
My answer: "Because I have to run away".
I'll tell ya why I said it 20 years ago. Because I was tired of pretending to be someone I was not. I was tired of lying to everyone but myself. And it was high time I made myself happy and I could be comfortable in my own skin.
I grew up with as normal a childhood as a kid could expect. Had good parents. Lived in a safe neighborhood. Went to all private schools (12 of them catholic). Played sports and loved "boy" shiit from Star Wars to Tonka trucks.
And I also liked guys. Alot. Knew since I was 7. And also am at complete peace with who I am and wouldn't change a thing. This is who I am and who I am attracted to. I love my boyfriend dearly, been with him 7 years now. He also grew up with a very all american childhood like mine with no trauma or molestation or anything that would have influenced him. He just likes dick.
As for Jason Collins, while it should not matter in 2013 what your orientation is the fact is DOES matter to 1000's of gay kids growing up who finally have someone amongst the 4 major sports in this country they can look up to and say I could be out like him AND be accepted. In a sport like the NFL and NBA there is a still culture of ignorance among some players and probably coaches that needs to be taken down. Where players, coaches, and their fans perhaps pause to think about what they are saying before their next fag joke or derogatory term comes spewing out of their mouth. And where they learn that Collins is really no different then they are and he and other gay athletes should not be forced to endure those comments or feel like they have to live a lie just to fit in.
Love is love. When it comes right down to it that's what matters.
quote:Originally posted by Corageous-Ka-Bong:
I have grilled red cabbage before, little olive oil, garlic and maytag blue cheese, does that count?
Hell yeah, it counts!
Man, I'm gonna put on 3 pounds this weekend because of this thread! 1.5 pounds pork, 1.5 pounds liberty!
Packerboi, you are da man. Good for you. Oh, and, thank you.
quote:quote:What you described is worlds apart from what P'boi described and others I know that have been honest with themselves.
Perhaps I am illegitimate, then.
The answer to your question lies within the riddle.
quote:Originally posted by Fandame:
Thanks, Henry. I have made one conversion: My partner used to be a Vikings fan, but since we have been together she has seen the error of her ways and converted to the Packers. I earned a green-and-gold toaster!
Doing God's work. You should start a Viking conversion camp!
quote:Originally posted by Fandame:
The important thing about Collins coming out is for the young people, whether straight or gay, to see a successful role model. Role models are out there, but many times they are silent or unidentified. For example, the famous photo of the three cops after the Boston bombing that appeared on the SI cover shows two men and a woman: the guy on the right has been married to his husband for five(?) years. He's a positive gay role model, yet how many knew he was gay? It takes a Jason Collins to get positive press coverage.
Great post. We need to get that message out until, pretty much, everyone gets the message.
quote:Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Aren't we all a little gay? I mean who likes to watch porn when the dude has a limp, flacid penis? (Thanks Ron White). Answer: No one. IC wants both dudes to have rock hard boners when he watches.
quote:Originally posted by Coach:
What "compelled" him?
If you truly don't care about his sexuality, what issue do you have with him acknowledging it publicly?
Seriously. Why should he have to hide it?
No idea what compelled him. Don't care, either.
I don't understand the entire concept of people that have a need to 'label' themselves, and then publicly declaring it. And it's a 'normal' part of conversation, isn't it? Doesn't everyone declare their sexual preferences when being introduced?
I don't care if he hides it or not, but if he chooses to share his sexual lifestyle with the world, why must I be exposed to it? I didn't ask, didn't want to know, and still don't care. And if I think it is in my children's best interest to not hear it, again, why is it necessary for them to hear it? Just so they can feel better about themselves?
Wanna know how I knew packerboi is gay?
He's always on the decorating committee for the X4 Christmas party.
Props to all of you who have shared something of yourselves here.
He's always on the decorating committee for the X4 Christmas party.
Props to all of you who have shared something of yourselves here.
People don't want to be labeled, they fight the labels quite often. It's those labels that are used to deny basic freedoms and rights. That's the struggle.
I can personally guarantee you every LGBT person wants the same thing you do. To not have to declare their preferences but be judged as a individual. They didn't put the label on themselves but it takes organization and social movements to destigmatize those labels.
Who would willingly want to go through the gauntlet of derision? No one.
I can personally guarantee you every LGBT person wants the same thing you do. To not have to declare their preferences but be judged as a individual. They didn't put the label on themselves but it takes organization and social movements to destigmatize those labels.
Who would willingly want to go through the gauntlet of derision? No one.
quote:Originally posted by Blair Kiel:
Wanna know how I knew packerboi is gay?
He's always on the decorating committee for the X4 Christmas party.
Props to all of you who have shared something of yourselves here.
I thought it was because you saw him at the meetings?
I'm not averse to tasteful decorating tips.
On a related note, in the Maraniss book on Lombardi, it does appear that Lombardi let his team know there was zero tolerance for anti-gay sentiments. I'd have to look, but I am ~99% sure.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
People don't want to be labeled, they fight the labels quite often. It's those labels that are used to deny basic freedoms and rights. That's the struggle.
I can personally guarantee you every LGBT person wants the same thing you do. To not have to declare their preferences but be judged as a individual. They didn't put the label on themselves but it takes organization and social movements to destigmatize those labels.
Who would willingly want to go through the gauntlet of derision? No one.
Never had to go through your "gauntlet of derision," but I love the phrase.
Women have always had it easier when coming out. To address the issue of labels, if I weren't labeled, I wouldn't have had to go through the adoption process in order for my kids (my partner's the birth mom) to be recognized as mine. I wouldn't have to worry that if my partner ends up in a hospital in the middle of nowhere or some other state that I couldn't see her in intensive care (most hospitals have "immediate family only" rules). There's a host of other things we have to do to try to protect ourselves that straight people don't, and I won't bore you with them all. If I weren't labeled...All in all, I want the label removed so I don't have to be on the lookout for the stigmas other people put on me and my family. That's all. It's pretty simple, really.
Oh, and Phaedrus, you're right: it was the Maraniss book. It's one of my favorite Lombardi stories. Basically, they heard they were getting a player who was gay. Lombardi told the coaches that the first guy who questioned the player's manhood would be the first one out the door. Another reason why Lombardi was so great!
But Lombardi had a gay brother so it was not so what I would call foreign to him at that time, the 1960's.
quote:Great post. We need to get that message out until, pretty much, everyone gets the message.
There will be some people that won't "get" the message no matter what because they are bigots or push a religious angle or are just plain ignorant. But I generally agree with your take on this.
I have a feeling that some day our kids will look back and laugh at how close minded we were on the whole gay marriage/gay rights topic. Kind of the same feeling I have looking back pre Title VII of the Civil Rights Act and wonder how/why it was OK for employers to discriminate against others because of their race, religion, gender or national origin? I mean, really?
In the end we're all people that want the same things in life and just want to be treated fairly and equally. I am proud of those that took the time to share their own personal stories on this topic.
quote:Originally posted by Blair Kiel:
I'm not averse to tasteful decorating tips.
You need some.
quote:Originally posted by Timmy!:
No idea what compelled him. Don't care, either.
There's that word again. He gets to make that decision, not you. I don't think the reason matters, but I would also opine his doing so didn't negatively affect you or your family's life in any way, shape or form.
quote:
I don't understand the entire concept of people that have a need to 'label' themselves, and then publicly declaring it. And it's a 'normal' part of conversation, isn't it? Doesn't everyone declare their sexual preferences when being introduced?
You don't "understand", but let's remember you also don't "care". He's been an NBA player for twelve years, so I would hesitate to describe his coming forward as a part of "being introduced". Which also doesn't matter.
quote:
I don't care if he hides it or not, but if he chooses to share his sexual lifestyle with the world, why must I be exposed to it? I didn't ask, didn't want to know, and still don't care. And if I think it is in my children's best interest to not hear it, again, why is it necessary for them to hear it? Just so they can feel better about themselves?
I find it rather interesting/telling that you chose the world "lifestyle" instead of "orientation". And what is it about his coming forward that would somehow not be in your "children's best interest"? What exactly would you be protecting them from? What would you be afraid of, exactly?
I'm certainly not going to tell you how to raise your children, and if you want to bury you and your family's head in the sand be my guest. The last time I checked personal electronics had power buttons. The issues surrounding this topic aren't going away just because you'd rather not deal with them.
And I'm not convinced that you truly don't care, but that's just my opinion, and I'm sure you'll sleep just fine tonight knowing that.
Thanks for all the supportive posts. Mean's a lot.
While I can't speak for Jason Collins, 12 years in the NBA and being on a multitude of teams likely tells me he's been exposed to quite a bit of homophobic comments/stories/jokes/and attitudes and well maybe he just grew tired of it.
When your job involves doing "a man's man" sport and you are constantly berated by tales of how faggots are less then their straight counterparts, that they are sick or twisted, that they aren't real men, that they should have the "gay" beaten out of them, and that for fear of all the above are you going to sit there and tell me after years of enduring that you wouldn't want to finally end that and explain who you are? That perhaps after being told people like him are going to hell because of how he was born he just might reach a point where he's sick of hearin' it?
Heterosexuals may not feel the need to identify that they are straight because 99 percent of the time they don't have to. And no one is beating them or torturing them and killing them just because they are straight.
That link I posted is not a joke. That actually happened. Like just now. You may not believe complete hatred and bigotry exists for gays. And people would want to kill you for it. But just open your eyes a bit or travel some. You will see it's still there. And guys like Collins are just their part to put an end to it.
quote:I don't care if he hides it or not, but if he chooses to share his sexual lifestyle with the world, why must I be exposed to it? I didn't ask, didn't want to know, and still don't care. And if I think it is in my children's best interest to not hear it, again, why is it necessary for them to hear it? Just so they can feel better about themselves?
While I can't speak for Jason Collins, 12 years in the NBA and being on a multitude of teams likely tells me he's been exposed to quite a bit of homophobic comments/stories/jokes/and attitudes and well maybe he just grew tired of it.
When your job involves doing "a man's man" sport and you are constantly berated by tales of how faggots are less then their straight counterparts, that they are sick or twisted, that they aren't real men, that they should have the "gay" beaten out of them, and that for fear of all the above are you going to sit there and tell me after years of enduring that you wouldn't want to finally end that and explain who you are? That perhaps after being told people like him are going to hell because of how he was born he just might reach a point where he's sick of hearin' it?
Heterosexuals may not feel the need to identify that they are straight because 99 percent of the time they don't have to. And no one is beating them or torturing them and killing them just because they are straight.
That link I posted is not a joke. That actually happened. Like just now. You may not believe complete hatred and bigotry exists for gays. And people would want to kill you for it. But just open your eyes a bit or travel some. You will see it's still there. And guys like Collins are just their part to put an end to it.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Don't blame boob monkey on P'boi.
I blame the Vikings for that that garish combo of colors.
quote:Originally posted by Coach:
And what is it about his coming forward that would somehow not be in your "children's best interest"? What exactly would you be protecting them from? What would you be afraid of, exactly?
The ghey is more contagious that bubonic plague. There is a worldwide epidemic.
quote:Originally posted by packerboi:
As for Jason Collins, while it should not matter in 2013 what your orientation is the fact is DOES matter to 1000's of gay kids growing up who finally have someone amongst the 4 major sports in this country they can look up to and say I could be out like him AND be accepted. In a sport like the NFL and NBA there is a still culture of ignorance among some players and probably coaches that needs to be taken down. Where players, coaches, and their fans perhaps pause to think about what they are saying before their next fag joke or derogatory term comes spewing out of their mouth. And where they learn that Collins is really no different then they are and he and other gay athletes should not be forced to endure those comments or feel like they have to live a lie just to fit in.
Outstanding post. Just outstanding. Thank you, sir!
quote:Originally posted by Goalline:
The ghey is more contagious that bubonic plague. There is a worldwide epidemic.
I blame it all on Justin Beiber, or however the hell he spells his name.
Hey now! Lesbians are our friends too!!
quote:Originally posted by packerboi:
Thanks for all the supportive posts. Mean's a lot.
[QUOTE] I don't care if he hides it or not, but if he chooses to share his sexual lifestyle with the world, why must I be exposed to it? I didn't ask, didn't want to know, and still don't care. And if I think it is in my children's best interest to not hear it, again, why is it necessary for them to hear it? Just so they can feel better about themselves?
Why, thank you Pboi! And I'll second your comment on the supportive posts. It's just more proof that X4 is the best.
As for Timmy's post, I have to say that if people aren't "exposed to it," they believe it doesn't exist and the stigmas propagate. When your eyes are full of sand it's easy to believe the whole world is grainy. And Timmy, as for your children and your not wanting them to "hear it," well, neither did I want my son to hear from his kindergarten classmate that his moms were going to jail because of the way they live. I respect that you want what you think is best for your kids, but so do I. Until everyone learns to accept people for who they are, I think we're both going to hear it.
So, let's all sing kumbaya 'round the fireplace -- and really? Justin Beiber? Yuck.