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This is the exact type of game that you would point to as why. 

I am not saying MM would be fired solely because of today's game but the fact is we have seen this movie before. A lot. 

Stale. No sense of energy. Slow starts. Predictable plays and offense. 

And perhaps more importantly, you have a HC and a system in place that either just refuses to see the obvious, such as utilizing one of your best offensive weapons in Jones more, can't figure out how to scheme guys open, can't figure out how to get TE's like Lewis as a receiving threat, and can't get AR to stop swinging for the fences. Then there is the sloppy ass penalties killing this team and a Special Teams that has been flat out terrible at times. And again, not just this season. 

Package all that with a HC in a lame duck contract, I just think MM is right where Capers was in 2017. To me the writing is clearly on the wall. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part. But barring a total 180 in this teams personality, energy, and offense, I just don't see MM here in 2019

Last edited by packerboi
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If your ready to ship MM out the door, then you just as well trade AR for what you get for him. Bring in a fresh first year head coach, how much respect do think Rodgers is going to have for him. Things will sure enough get Favre like, that's not going end well. Both MM and AR are equally to blame, ego has gotten in the way of the big picture. The well being of the Green Bay Packers does not apply to these too men.

slowmo posted:

We haven't hit the bottom of the "the end is here" posting barrel, but this take----

"If your ready to ship MM out the door, then you just as well trade AR for what you get for him. Bring in a fresh first year head coach, how much respect do think Rodgers is going to have for him"---

indicates we are pretty close.  

Depends. Bring in a Josh McDaniels and he might listen because of what Brady has done. (He's not a real "first-year" coach, but he did not do well in Denver.) Bring in a college guy and, no, the respect won't be there. But I can't think of any other guy who AR might respect right off the bat.

Fandame posted:
slowmo posted:

We haven't hit the bottom of the "the end is here" posting barrel, but this take----

"If your ready to ship MM out the door, then you just as well trade AR for what you get for him. Bring in a fresh first year head coach, how much respect do think Rodgers is going to have for him"---

indicates we are pretty close.  

Depends. Bring in a Josh McDaniels and he might listen because of what Brady has done. (He's not a real "first-year" coach, but he did not do well in Denver.) Bring in a college guy and, no, the respect won't be there. But I can't think of any other guy who AR might respect right off the bat.

I don't really care who Rodgers "respects." While he is  the highest paid player in the league, he doesn't get to choose who is the Coach, who is signed/cut (see, ie Nelson, Jordy). 

It might be time for somebody in the MM circle to sit down with him and tell him that straight out.  I am fairly confident if/when there is a next coach they won't be crawling on bended knee to please Rodgers.  In fact, Murphy/Gutekunst are well aware that if they don't put Rodgers in his place soon, they will be in his crosshairs if he doesn't like their personnel moves and continues to pop off.  I could see the next coach hired for the specific purpose of his talent, but also for a willingness to sit down with Rodgers and tell him to "shut up and play."

Last edited by slowmo

MM or no MM, this team is not executing. Perhaps it is coaching and/or lack of talent. As much as I have and still will complain about MM, there seems to be more to the problem with this team than simply MM. Rodgers seems inaccurate and out of sync. Whose fault is that. Is to due to Injury..coaching...scheme...talent? All of the above? 

bandit posted:

If your ready to ship MM out the door, then you just as well trade AR for what you get for him. Bring in a fresh first year head coach, how much respect do think Rodgers is going to have for him. Things will sure enough get Favre like, that's not going end well. Both MM and AR are equally to blame, ego has gotten in the way of the big picture. The well being of the Green Bay Packers does not apply to these too men.

Tom Brady has an ego too. To do anything it takes to win including taking a below market rate pay. Arod isn’t enough of a winner for me.

mccarthy has stunk up the joint far before seattle. Time management, soooo predictable offense, keeping ridiculous assistant coaches too long (slodum, capers, zook), pig headed adjustments (not playing Jones the latest example), something works and never go back to it in a game, starting games so slow it's almost impossible to come back, no screens-quick slants-2 tight ends-end arounds, abandoning the run even when it's working, out of control penalties (holding on every kickoff and punt). Almost impossible to watch anymore.

slowmo posted:
Fandame posted:
slowmo posted:

We haven't hit the bottom of the "the end is here" posting barrel, but this take----

"If your ready to ship MM out the door, then you just as well trade AR for what you get for him. Bring in a fresh first year head coach, how much respect do think Rodgers is going to have for him"---

indicates we are pretty close.  

Depends. Bring in a Josh McDaniels and he might listen because of what Brady has done. (He's not a real "first-year" coach, but he did not do well in Denver.) Bring in a college guy and, no, the respect won't be there. But I can't think of any other guy who AR might respect right off the bat.

I don't really care who Rodgers "respects." While he is  the highest paid player in the league, he doesn't get to choose who is the Coach, who is signed/cut (see, ie Nelson, Jordy). 

It might be time for somebody in the MM circle to sit down with him and tell him that straight out.  I am fairly confident if/when there is a next coach they won't be crawling on bended knee to please Rodgers.  In fact, Murphy/Gutekunst are well aware that if they don't put Rodgers in his place soon, they will be in his crosshairs if he doesn't like their personnel moves and continues to pop off.  I could see the next coach hired for the specific purpose of his talent, but also for a willingness to sit down with Rodgers and tell him to "shut up and play."

This is some over the top ****.  It's hilarious.

I think it's funny that so many people think Rodgers wouldn't want to win vs. getting his own way, whatever that is.  

Did you ever think Rodgers really may enjoy collaborating with a young coach or OC?  I'm sure he'd hate a system like McVay''s or Nagi's.

Christ, I'm The Hyperbolist but you guys are going full on storm the Bastille. 

Last edited by Henry
Henry posted:

This is some over the top ****.  It's hilarious.

I think it's funny that so many people think Rodgers wouldn't want to win vs. getting his own way, whatever that is.  

Did you ever think Rodgers really may enjoy collaborating with a young coach or OC?  I'm sure he'd hate a system like McVay''s or Nagi's.

Based on how he cowboys the scheme and does whatever he wants now, I doubt any collaboration would take place with a young coach. It's a fantasy to think Sean McVay or Shannahan or any young coach (or any coach really) could get Rodgers to play within a system. He gets more slack than Favre did because Rodgers doesn't make soul crushing mistakes like Favre, but Rodgers would do to a young coach what Favre did to Sherman. I don't think it's ego driven, I think he thinks he's giving the team the best chance to score/win when he holds the ball, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Most of the time it does gives us the best chance to win, sometimes it doesn't. This season him holding the ball hasn't helped. 

Last edited by Grave Digger

Sometimes when a head coach with past success has been around for a while things tend to get stale.  I think it has in Green Bay.   The play calling becomes predictable based upon what has worked well in the past without regard to current players' talents.   Doubt MM would let Philbin start calling the plays but it might spark something.   If things continue as they have been then a shake up is needed and I think Murphy wouldn't hesitate to make the change.

packerboi posted:

....I just think MM is right where Capers was in 2017.....

Or where MM himself was in 2010 before he went on the SB run. Probably take a similar deep run in the playoffs to salvage his job and right now hard to see it.

Become more and more evident to me that MM's shelf life in GB has expired and it's time for a change.

Where MM was in 2010 was a year after making the playoffs and 3 years removed from the NFCC game, should have been the SB if not for Favre's mail order INT.   I don't see the parallel.  I said yesterday in another thread that yesterday MM was looking a bit Capers like in that he needs a really strong roster on offense to get anything done.  

But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because he seems to do his best work with his back against the wall.  He's done it many times in the past.  However that was with a weak NFCN.  Div games used to be almost gimmes but they've got a tough row to hoe after the bye.  A lot of divisions are upside down right now but the rule of thumb is usually 10 wins to make the dance.  I have a hard time seeing 8 wins left on their schedule.  Maybe knee jerk but it looks like 8-7-1.

My issue is how many times does the lame duck HC status work?   They cleaned house with everyone else but McVince and Murphy and Gute have shown no confidence in giving him a long term extension.   So now we are in limbo land and run the risk of pissing away the season instead of doing a full reset at beginning of this year. 

You bring in a new HC he’s going to want his own staff so instead of potentially starting over this year it’s pretty likely it happens next year.  Which means 12 is another year older. 

MM is going to have to turn this team around ala 2010 to keep his job and not sure that’s fair to him or the team.  

Grave Digger posted:
Henry posted:

This is some over the top ****.  It's hilarious.

I think it's funny that so many people think Rodgers wouldn't want to win vs. getting his own way, whatever that is.  

Did you ever think Rodgers really may enjoy collaborating with a young coach or OC?  I'm sure he'd hate a system like McVay''s or Nagi's.

Based on how he cowboys the scheme and does whatever he wants now, I doubt any collaboration would take place with a young coach. It's a fantasy to think Sean McVay or Shannahan or any young coach (or any coach really) could get Rodgers to play within a system. He gets more slack than Favre did because Rodgers doesn't make soul crushing mistakes like Favre, but Rodgers would do to a young coach what Favre did to Sherman. I don't think it's ego driven, I think he thinks he's giving the team the best chance to score/win when he holds the ball, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Most of the time it does gives us the best chance to win, sometimes it doesn't. This season him holding the ball hasn't helped. 

I don't know about the more slack thing.  The guy was out injured last year and comes back to a continuation of the same crap and is getting savaged.  

Did anyone read that article with McVince talking about the offense or are we all assuming that's just a bunch of horse****?

No one is above the team, ever.  Just like some believe Fine Fine OC has still got it, I believe Rodgers wants to win.  Basically, you'd have to think that Rodgers doesn't give two ****s about football anymore and just wants highlights to go along with the losses.  

The guy is dinged and both he and McVince are trying to adjust.  But is there something off about Rodgers other than the knee?  Yeah, appears to be but I'm not exactly sure it has to do with him wanting to have his way.  

Not being facetious here but if McVince truly was just focused on the offense instead of being HC, I think they'd be tearing it up.  Instead of playing in a base offense because of Rodgers injury, an offense that every single frickin' team in the NFL already knows, he could actually be working in some KILL principles into that base offense to account for the injury.  I think Rodgers goes all Rodgers when guys are covered up in a predictable base offense and he's just flat out missing reads but McVince is calling some of those plays too.  

Rodgers has definitely missed some reads and passes but there are a lot of drops too.  Meaning, the whole offense has a funk about it.  Timing, routes, the kind of stuff the vets shouldn't think twice about.  I'm still baffled how they haven't gotten Graham and Lewis truly involved in this offense yet.  This is not meant to absolve Rodgers, he's way off.   

Having a fresh perspective and getting excited about the offense again can do miracles.  As rough as the defense has been you can see a level of energy and ideas happening.  Pretty tough to overcome those holes and rookie mistakes but it's there.  The offense feels like The Wizard Country Club defense right now.

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