We are currently one of only 3 teams in the top 10 in both total offense & defense. Turnovers and red zone have been our downfall
DH13 posted:Where MM was in 2010 was a year after making the playoffs and 3 years removed from the NFCC game, should have been the SB if not for Favre's mail order INT.
He was also in serious danger of missing the playoffs that year prior to the run. Perhaps not enough for TT to make a move but it would have been enough for his seat to get warm.
FLPACKER posted:My experience with people as bright as AR is that the thing they respect the most in bosses is intellect.
If this is true MM is F**cked. Lots of good qualities but this is not one of them. Old school coach, loyal to a fault, never quits. But I don't think the HC has to be an offensive genius to succeed. However if he's not, he needs to have an OC with some fresh ideas and that is definitely not the case here. I don't know the real duties of Philbin but I'm guessing that MM is playing both roles and not doing well with either. But MM created this and he'll have to live with the results. I know making a change would likely mean a step back and would put a real exclamation point on the wasting of a future HOF QB. But with another mediocre finish I don't see how Murphy let's this go on beyond this season. The one-year contract extension kind says it all when you consider the likelihood of all-new defense having any real success the first year and then not addressing the pass rush at all, waiting for next year's draft. MM has always put all his marbles on success in December but I think this year he may have dug his hole too deep.
Henry posted:Grave Digger posted:Henry posted:This is some over the top ****. It's hilarious.
I think it's funny that so many people think Rodgers wouldn't want to win vs. getting his own way, whatever that is.
Did you ever think Rodgers really may enjoy collaborating with a young coach or OC? I'm sure he'd hate a system like McVay''s or Nagi's.
Based on how he cowboys the scheme and does whatever he wants now, I doubt any collaboration would take place with a young coach. It's a fantasy to think Sean McVay or Shannahan or any young coach (or any coach really) could get Rodgers to play within a system. He gets more slack than Favre did because Rodgers doesn't make soul crushing mistakes like Favre, but Rodgers would do to a young coach what Favre did to Sherman. I don't think it's ego driven, I think he thinks he's giving the team the best chance to score/win when he holds the ball, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Most of the time it does gives us the best chance to win, sometimes it doesn't. This season him holding the ball hasn't helped.
I don't know about the more slack thing. The guy was out injured last year and comes back to a continuation of the same crap and is getting savaged.
Did anyone read that article with McVince talking about the offense or are we all assuming that's just a bunch of horse****?
No one is above the team, ever. Just like some believe Fine Fine OC has still got it, I believe Rodgers wants to win. Basically, you'd have to think that Rodgers doesn't give two ****s about football anymore and just wants highlights to go along with the losses.
The guy is dinged and both he and McVince are trying to adjust. But is there something off about Rodgers other than the knee? Yeah, appears to be but I'm not exactly sure it has to do with him wanting to have his way.
Not being facetious here but if McVince truly was just focused on the offense instead of being HC, I think they'd be tearing it up. Instead of playing in a base offense because of Rodgers injury, an offense that every single frickin' team in the NFL already knows, he could actually be working in some KILL principles into that base offense to account for the injury. I think Rodgers goes all Rodgers when guys are covered up in a predictable base offense and he's just flat out missing reads but McVince is calling some of those plays too.
Rodgers has definitely missed some reads and passes but there are a lot of drops too. Meaning, the whole offense has a funk about it. Timing, routes, the kind of stuff the vets shouldn't think twice about. I'm still baffled how they haven't gotten Graham and Lewis truly involved in this offense yet. This is not meant to absolve Rodgers, he's way off.
Having a fresh perspective and getting excited about the offense again can do miracles. As rough as the defense has been you can see a level of energy and ideas happening. Pretty tough to overcome those holes and rookie mistakes but it's there. The offense feels like The Wizard Country Club defense right now.
Agree with a lot of this, especially the last paragraph. Short of outside linebackers (thanks Ted!) and serviceable safeties, I think the defense has shown flashes of how solid it can be, especially up front and in the backfield - love the play and enthusiasm Alexander and Jackson bring.
I guess I don't fully understand what McCarthy's new offense was going to require of Rodgers to the point where it can't be used now. Since 2013, Rodgers has had two broken collarbones, a bad calf injury and now a banged up knee...and he's 34 years old. I would have guessed his new offense would not be looking for Rodgers to be the super mobile QB he was in his 20's, but more of the traditional pocket passer, with good pocket awareness and the ability to move around in the pocket but not the running threat he was in the past. I think it's excuses, and a big reason #12 seems so pissy lately. McCarthy has been stuck in neutral for years now, bringing forth nothing but the same-old, same-old "we do what we do" approach with little to no innovation. Football strategy is constantly evolving, and the Packers have stood pat. And I don't even want to get into his choices of coaches and his stubborn loyalty to them (I'm looking at you, Zook).
Tschmack posted:Ship out 12 = 1980s all over again
The Window is slowly closing......... You know it, I know it, he knows it...
"I'm still baffled how they haven't gotten Graham and Lewis truly involved in this offense yet."
Graham isn't getting open. All he has left in his arsenal is to body up his defender and use his size. That's still a nice tool, but he isn't even close to the guy he once was in New Orleans.
Pettine is currently working miracles with the **** talent that he has. We got 3 players to be excited about (Clark, Alexander and Jackson) and zero pro bowlers on defense. Safety is a complete mess right now and LB is just a smidge behind them. Yet, they have been respectable or better.
Point is, a new voice and new scheme isn't a death sentence to the offense. That O-line is playing well enough now that Bell is at G that with good QB play and scheme we should be dropping 30+ every week. We're not. That falls on the QB or the OC /HC. We can't get rid of the QB, so unless the results change in the next 10 weeks, it's time to move on.
If MM goes on to win elsewhere, that's fine. It doesn't prove it was the wrong move. As others have mentioned, I'd like to replace him with a young innovative mind. I think Rodgers would work better with that type than a old school type.
BrainDed posted:"I'm still baffled how they haven't gotten Graham and Lewis truly involved in this offense yet."
Graham isn't getting open. All he has left in his arsenal is to body up his defender and use his size. That's still a nice tool, but he isn't even close to the guy he once was in New Orleans.
The announcers for the game - Speilman and ? - pretty much said the same thing. Said that many personnel guys around the league said Graham has lost a step and is not the same player.
Henry posted:I think Rodgers goes all Rodgers when guys are covered up in a predictable base offense and he's just flat out missing reads but McVince is calling some of those plays too.
This is the only part I disagree with. We saw so many opportunities yesterday that he just passed on. I think MM gave the young WRs easy opportunities to get open and they did for the most part. I don't know why he opts for the harder throw that has a lower % chance of succeeding, but he seems to be doing it now more than ever. I like Rodgers, he's a HOF QB, he's doing his best to make things happen, but especially yesterday it seems like he's pressing. We saw a beautiful, controlled offense where the QB threw on time and the defense was kept off balance against Chicago and Minnesota...it's exactly what New Orleans and New England do, but then against WAS, BUF, and DET he reverted to street ball. He had to have seen the success that he had against CHI and MIN, why on earth wouldn't he want to do that every week? It chews the clock, its efficient, it keeps him from getting hit, boosts his stats (doubt that's a big factor for him), etc.
RochNyFan posted:BrainDed posted:"I'm still baffled how they haven't gotten Graham and Lewis truly involved in this offense yet."
Graham isn't getting open. All he has left in his arsenal is to body up his defender and use his size. That's still a nice tool, but he isn't even close to the guy he once was in New Orleans.
The announcers for the game - Speilman and ? - pretty much said the same thing. Said that many personnel guys around the league said Graham has lost a step and is not the same player.
He may not be what he once was but he's better than what we had last year.
No one is doubting he's lost a step but Chicago was using double coverage on him and other teams are giving him plenty of attention. Maybe Rodgers is looking for Graham and Adams too much, I don't know. I do know base scheme isn't going to get it done.
Rodgers has just plain ****ed up in the past couple of games but this offense is flat as hell. Crosby 100% lost the game yesterday. As FLPacker pointed out, the stats are there on offense and defense yet there's nothing impressive about this offense in the last two games.
That's what makes what Adams doing so impressive. Right now he is the best in the league at creating separation at the LOS. The footwork, the shiftyness... he is 2 steps ahead of the CB at 5 yards past the LOS on a lot of plays when they play press.
Pretty clear with the benefit of hindsight just what a horrible mistake it was letting Jared Cook get away.
It's crazy to think that after they lost Jared Cook, I thought they might have been better off with Martellus Bennett and Lance Kendricks. Oops, I was a little off in that assessment. Bennett was the #1 biggest disappointing FA the Packers have ever signed, and Kendricks has been only marginally better.
fightphoe93 posted:It's crazy to think that after they lost Jared Cook, I thought they might have been better off with Martellus Bennett and Lance Kendricks. Oops, I was a little off in that assessment. Bennett was the #1 biggest disappointing FA the Packers have ever signed, and Kendricks has been only marginally better.
Good assessment of Bennett. His may have been a slimier exit from a team than that of Vontae Davis....at least he made no bones about being a quitter. Other big bust FA I can recall is that defensive end from the early 2000's, I think his name was Joe Johnson?
Yep, Joe Johnson certainly was a bust, but I don't remember bad mouthing the team and trainer after he got hurt. Probably because the team actually spotted Johnson some salary money before it was due as apparently he was in some sort of financial bind before he was going to get whatever he was owed by the Pack. He had been the #1 FA bust, but Martellus Bennett yanked that crown from Johnson and has worn it since.
Lot's of names on the roster and staff have changes the last 4 years in GB. But if we're being honest. We've been watching the exact same product for the last 4 years. It's pretty tiring.
fightphoe93 posted:Yep, Joe Johnson certainly was a bust, but I don't remember bad mouthing the team and trainer after he got hurt. Probably because the team actually spotted Johnson some salary money before it was due as apparently he was in some sort of financial bind before he was going to get whatever he was owed by the Pack. He had been the #1 FA bust, but Martellus Bennett yanked that crown from Johnson and has worn it since.
And then he dropped it.
michiganjoe posted:Pretty clear with the benefit of hindsight just what a horrible mistake it was letting Jared Cook get away.
I was saying that to a friend last week.....he is more of a playmaking threat than Graham right now
Well he's staying healthy. That wouldn't happen in GB.
michiganjoe posted:Pretty clear with the benefit of hindsight just what a horrible mistake it was letting Jared Cook get away.
Never understood why Ted wanted to pinch pennies with a guy like Cook who seemed to enjoy playing in GB and after all the problems he had finding a TE after Finley went down.
The Aaron to Cook connection at the end of 2016 was fun to watch and Aaron already "trusted" him.
Instead, we signed a known problem child who was injured for more money than Cook and now while that quitter still collects over $4,000,000 this season for not playing we are also paying Graham twice as much as Cook for not even the same production.
Oh well, I think Aaron and Jimmie G are starting to get on the same page and Ted can't do any more damage, so time to move on.
Grave Digger posted:Henry posted:This is some over the top ****. It's hilarious.
I think it's funny that so many people think Rodgers wouldn't want to win vs. getting his own way, whatever that is.
Did you ever think Rodgers really may enjoy collaborating with a young coach or OC? I'm sure he'd hate a system like McVay''s or Nagi's.
Based on how he cowboys the scheme and does whatever he wants now, I doubt any collaboration would take place with a young coach. It's a fantasy to think Sean McVay or Shannahan or any young coach (or any coach really) could get Rodgers to play within a system. He gets more slack than Favre did because Rodgers doesn't make soul crushing mistakes like Favre, but Rodgers would do to a young coach what Favre did to Sherman. I don't think it's ego driven, I think he thinks he's giving the team the best chance to score/win when he holds the ball, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Most of the time it does gives us the best chance to win, sometimes it doesn't. This season him holding the ball hasn't helped.
All QB's are ego driven.
It's interesting the recent bummer personnel decisions are on TT but nary a mention of the head coach's input. Also interesting mccarthy was the 49ers offensive coordinator when they took Alex Smith rather than AR. Head coaches are always in the draft room. As decorations? Or to help the decision process? I think judging by the most recent bummer decision not to go with Jones as the lead RB, mccarthy's buffoonish fingerprints are part of getting rid of Cook, Hyde, and Jordy along with TT's. Or TT thought mccarthy was an idiot and didn't consult him. Either way, our personnel decisions suffered with all management involved in that era.
It is inconceivable that Jones wasn't starting and running wild yesterday. Just dumb.
They couldn’t keep Jordy for what they were paying him. I think the young WRs will be OK but will need to work through the growing pains.
Hyde actually signed a pretty lucrative contract with the Bills. Again, good for him and we still had Dom ****ing things up.
That being said, I agree with Cook sentiments. That was a bad miss not bringing him back. Almost worse than not resigning Casey Heyward.
Still, the King/Biegel debacle instead of Watt was inexcusable. They overpaid for Perry and once CM3 leaves there’s no one waiting in the wings.
CM3 is still there? I see he is now up 12 total tackles including assists and one half sack. The rest of his stat line is zeroes. And I know about the 2 penalties.
That ain't enough, not near enough.
Watch the Raiders, Jordy has definitely lost a few steps. Keeping him wouldn't have made the team better. Stats don't mean ****. Do other guys make plays because of the attention he gets?
The only answer if McStupidface is ****canned is to replace him with Mike Tice don't @me
Swap Tomlin and McCarthy. Pittsburgh for Pittsburgh, what could go wrong?
LarseeBear posted:It's interesting the recent bummer personnel decisions are on TT but nary a mention of the head coach's input. Also interesting mccarthy was the 49ers offensive coordinator when they took Alex Smith rather than AR. Head coaches are always in the draft room. As decorations? Or to help the decision process? I think judging by the most recent bummer decision not to go with Jones as the lead RB, mccarthy's buffoonish fingerprints are part of getting rid of Cook, Hyde, and Jordy along with TT's. Or TT thought mccarthy was an idiot and didn't consult him. Either way, our personnel decisions suffered with all management involved in that era.
Then you haven't been reading my posts for the past 6 months.
I’m curious what % of snaps everyone thinks should be runs? 62% of our offensive plays this year have been passes, 32% have been runs, and 6% have been punts. What kind of balance is correct when you have Aaron Rodgers?
Personally I don’t think balance is necessary, BUT we need to get the ball in the hands of playmakers. I would be okay if Rodgers only passed in a game, but Jones, Williams, and Monty all need to touch the ball multiple times in a game...as do Adams, Allison, Cobb, MVS, Graham, etc. Were stacked with skill players, just have to get them the ball as often as possible.
We need 33% pass, 33% runs, 33% punts. The last 1% should be timeouts because the clock is about to run out.
I think it's at least a NFCCG appearance for McCarthy or buh-bye.
Hungry5 posted:I think it's at least a NFCCG appearance for McCarthy or buh-bye.
I really hope you're right.
Well, that article is an indictment against MM. What I don't get is, yes, the offense is stale and predictable, but guys are still open. It's Rodgers who insists on going sandlot and trying to go long far, far more than he should. Yes, it may be a bit boring, but I don't get how Rodgers can't see that he -- and the team -- has success capitalizing on those quick short/intermediate throws. If he threw those shorter ones and ran the ball more, the long heroic throws would be there when you want to take a shot. It shouldn't be about the publicity or making the HOF throws or being bored of easy throws or fighting with the coach, it should only be about winning.
Guteykist can make a coaching change whenever he wants, and my guess is without the lack of a contract extension for MM, he will make a change after this year. Young or old, brilliant or not, he has to be someone with a strong personality who can bend Rodgers to fit into whatever offense he runs.
Grave Digger posted:I’m curious what % of snaps everyone thinks should be runs? 62% of our offensive plays this year have been passes, 32% have been runs, and 6% have been punts. What kind of balance is correct when you have Aaron Rodgers?
Personally I don’t think balance is necessary, BUT we need to get the ball in the hands of playmakers. I would be okay if Rodgers only passed in a game, but Jones, Williams, and Monty all need to touch the ball multiple times in a game...as do Adams, Allison, Cobb, MVS, Graham, etc. Were stacked with skill players, just have to get them the ball as often as possible.
It obviously depends on opponent and variables during the game. That said, I'd like to see us run about around 35% to 40%. I'm assuming that 32% number you shared includes QB scrambles. So the actual number of called runs is probably high 20's.
I'm not calling for run, run, pass punt. Just a better use of what appears to be a legit weapon until Rodgers pulls his head out of his ass. If Rodgers was playing better, nobody would give a rip if they passed 100% of the time.
Word is MM et al don't trust 33 in pass coverage and don't want to get 12 injured. That's only thing that makes sense vs MM being plain pigheaded. Who was in 2nd half with 12 playing catchup? 30 and 88 due to better pass pro and similar production, if not big play ability. I wanted to see lots of 33 out of the gate in Detroit but 12 was flinging it around the yard as Pack was down early...
How is SF run D?