Pettine is GONE, who would be your choice?

@FLPACKER posted:

Yes, Pettine made it clear during his presser when first hired that "nothing gets you beat faster than explosive plays in the passing game" Pettine has been a DC 8 seasons ...his defenses have finished the season in the top 10 (yards) 6 of those 8 years with three different teams....we could do a hell of a lot worse.

Agree, but only once this season did I see him deviate from his typical game plan and that was vs Henry. 

If you're facing Mitch Trubisky, it just makes sense to take the run game and short pass game away first.   No need to let the Bears inch their way down the field while limiting the number of possessions in the game.   I would argue that our philosophy with an opponent like that would be the more possessions the better our odds of winning are.    I'll take 4 short drives and 1 explosive play for a TD vs 3 long drives leading to 6 points.   Yes, it's 1 more point for the opponent but it's also two more possessions for Arron Rodgers.

Hard to complain too much about his philosophy against the Bears when the defense only gave up thirteen points (and I share the coach's frustration with the long drives).

Again, win these two stats : 1.turnovers 2. average yards gained / yielded per pass attempt and you win around 93% of the time. We lost in: total yards gained, time of possession, and rushing yards vs. Bears but because we won those two above cited categories we won the game BY 19 POINTS. Based on the analytics Pettine's major emphasis is to limit explosive pass plays and take the ball away. Doesn't mean that he doesn't want to stop the run, but you learn as a coach, unless you are superior in talent at every position, you can't be great at everything in every game. In our three losses we lost in both categories to TB & Minny. Lost in TOs by 2 to Indy and only bettered them in other category by 1/10 of a point.

@FLPACKER posted:

Again, win these two stats : 1.turnovers 2. average yards gained / yielded per pass attempt and you win around 93% of the time. We lost in: total yards gained, time of possession, and rushing yards vs. Bears but because we won those two above cited categories we won the game BY 19 POINTS. Based on the analytics Pettine's major emphasis is to limit explosive pass plays and take the ball away. Doesn't mean that he doesn't want to stop the run, but you learn as a coach, unless you are superior in talent at every position, you can't be great at everything in every game. In our three losses we lost in both categories to TB & Minny. Lost in TOs by 2 to Indy and only bettered them in other category by 1/10 of a point.

You get turnovers from pressure.  That's why Gary is so important. He's the wild card in terms of being able to generate pressure without blitzing. Z. Smith can do it, but none of their other guys in a 4 or 5 man rush can get home consistently. Z. Smith has to be accounted for if you are a DC. P. Smith, Gary, and Keke have had their moments, but not enough. Lancaster, Lowry, K. Clark, and whatever other 300+ pounders are there to clog the middle.

Pettine's scheme would look a lot better if they had one more premier pass rusher. If you don't, teams double Z. Smith, take their chances with the other guys, and let the QB sit back there and throw easy checkdowns off his 3rd or 4th read in the progression.

Good points, in addition I think having a better CB opposite Alexander would free up more blitz opportunities.

@Henry posted:

Fuck you.

That is a really deep pink. Is it black or white?🤷‍♂️

The issue I see with Pettine’s approach is come playoff time 1) you face better competition and 2) it puts a lot of pressure on the offense to execute at a very high level.

The Packers have played a lot of games when they haven’t turned the ball over but as we saw v Indy and TB it’s the great equalizer.  

Against a guy like Trubisky who is prone to making some mistakes you have to attack him and get him uncomfortable and off rhythm.  He settled in pretty well in the first half of the game and honestly GB was fortunate because Chicago dropped a couple of easy INTs.

The way the Packers are playing at DB they have the horses to defend man to man and yes it’s possible they could give up a big play or two but “keeping everything in front of them” could limit offensive drive opportunities for the Packers as well.   Teams will dink and dunk their way down the field and chew up clock.  

The good news is Kenny Clark is playing really well right now and you see how the LBs are responding.  They are making impact plays.  If the DL can generate pressure and hold down the point of attack against the run it also opens up more pressure opportunities to get after the QB.   I just hate seeing guys like King playing 8-10 yards off the WR.

"The good news is Kenny Clark is playing really well right now and you see how the LBs are responding."

Yeah..   If you pair Clark with Snacks in the nickle they like to play and those two can eat up 4/5ths of the offensive line and thus limit the run game to 3 ypc or so that would be huge.

You could  press the corners and still have 2 S's deep.

Two safeties, I would add, who have been ripping it up lately....

Yeah frustrating to watch Kevin King play 8 yards off the WR(and bail on the snap) on a 3rd and 3.  Wonder if that's Pettines call ... no safety help ...plus it was Allan Robinson !!  Could've been much worse.

The real test is coming. Brady, Brees, Wilson, Mahomes, etc....will be a whole different challenge.

7th against the pass though !!! Rex Ryan's lackey is doing something right !!

@Goalline posted:

That is a really deep pink. Is it black or white?🤷‍♂️

White:

Racist!

Pettine was asked today about the CBs playing "off" coverage in short yardage situations. Asked specifically if that was a call or players option. Pettine was diplomatic but said players have option in some calls of mixing up how much they press WRs, said players have to be better in knowing the situation when doing so, or not doing so. In other words, he did not want DBs giving that much cushion in those situations.

In other words they weren’t coached well enough to recognize the situation.

That or King is dumb as a rock.

The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin?

Thanks for the Spinal Tap reference

Figured it was time- who’s even available at this point

The other idiot to let the opposing offense throw a last second bomb is available.  Trade one idiot for the other?  At least that guy was aggressive, right?

Is there anybody left worth a shit from Saleh's D?  Same question about Bowles staff in TB.

Still think it's at best 50-50 that Pettine is gone.

I thought the same. Then I read this, From JSO and now I am not so sure:

For starters, LaFleur’s harsh words were ominous for Mike Pettine’s future as defensive coordinator when the head coach recapped the backbreaking 39-yard touchdown that Scotty Miller caught over cornerback Kevin King with a second left in the first half.

Pettine called for man coverage on the play, apparently trying to take away a shorter out pattern that would have allowed to the Bucs to get out of bounds and kick a field goal. But the man call left King vulnerable for a deep shot, and Brady took it and hit it to put the Bucs up 21-10 at the half. That’s the kind of play that loses games.

“Definitely not the right call for the situation,” LaFleur said. “You can’t do stuff like that against a good football team and expect to win. … I blame us as coaches for putting our guys in that situation. That’s inexcusable, that should not have happened. We have to take a look at it and do some self-reflection and try to figure out ways how that can’t happen again.”

The bigger question in my mind is whether or not MLF can flat out fire him without the approval of the "triangle of authority".  I highly suspect that MLF wanted Pettine gone last season but was convinced to give him another year. So, he did and yet here we are.

A lot of fans will want to throw King under the bus and yes, he had a bad game. But Pettine did him no favors yesterday on that TD play. And LaFleur seems all too aware of that.           

Packerboi,  I have to think that Pettine is on very thin ice.  How in the world do you call man to man in that situation? 

I was on record earlier this year saying its the players but I now have to think they have pretty good talent but the coaching just isn't what it should be.  His scheme gets gashed by the run and they seem to fix that and then they turn around and give up deep shots consistently.  This team needs a good young aggressive DC who coaches a physical style of play.

why would we not hire jerry gray?

@pkr_north posted:

why would we not hire jerry gray?

If Pettine is gone, I'm pretty sure MLF has a very short list of candidates in mind. Perhaps Gray is in there, but I much more suspect his top choice is on the 49er's or Rams roster. And it's likely a young assistant most of us have never heard of.     

not to go homer or anything, jim leonhard would be good as well...

I'd like to see an aggressive play caller who optimizes a players strengths.

I have no idea who that is.

3 of the 4 teams that played yesterday had their defenses playing aggressively. BUF was out-matched talent wise, but they were not passive on defense.

I like Jim Leonhard, but his LBs at Wisconsin are better than anything the Packers have.

The first interview question should be, "How often should you put Preston Smith in position to defend the flat?" 

@Maynard posted:

I like Jim Leonhard, but his LBs at Wisconsin are better than anything the Packers have.

Paging Tschmak

@The Heckler posted:

Packerboi,  I have to think that Pettine is on very thin ice.  How in the world do you call man to man in that situation?

I was on record earlier this year saying its the players but I now have to think they have pretty good talent but the coaching just isn't what it should be.  His scheme gets gashed by the run and they seem to fix that and then they turn around and give up deep shots consistently.  This team needs a good young aggressive DC who coaches a physical style of play.

There are two things that stick out to me on that TD.

One of King's assets is supposed to be his speed (4.4 per draft profile) and Miller ran by him with ease.

Pettine's whole "thing" is not allowing the big play, living with the yards that strategy allows between the 20's.  We've all gone many rounds here on X4 over that philosophy.  But he bails on the last play of the half?

Some names, if the Packers make a change?

Greg Manusky, Mel Tucker, Shane Bowen, Tyrone McKenzie, Jerod Mayo, DeMeco Ryans.

Bowen and McKenzie could be up for the job in TEN with the retirement of Pees.

Pettine has to go.  Yes, the Packers have glaring weaknesses and TB targeted mismatches all game (LBs, King, Sullivan), but the same issues that plagued the Packers all season came up again.  3rd down defense, communication/late substitution issues, WTF play calls.  Have to go younger for the coordinator, I would think.  Jerry Gray isn't the answer.

I've always wondered how Dave Aranda would fare as a DC in the NFL, and I wish McCarthy had made the call when he was DC at Wisconsin.  May be too late now that he's a college HC.

@H5 posted:

Jerod Mayo,

So obvious

NFCC game and twice we get called for 12 men on the field.

NFCC game and you make a play call similar to the one that got a D coordinator canned mid season.

You have to move on from this guy.   We should have moved on from him after the 49s ass whopping.   It's Dom Capers all over again and it makes me want to puke.  How many playoff losses will it take this time?

Can they announce the firing of pettine yet?

— Jordan hug (@Jordanhug2) January 25, 2021

@Maynard posted:

I like Jim Leonhard, but his LBs at Wisconsin are better than anything the Packers have.

so you mean he could 'actually' help us find the right criteria for ilb's? krys barnes is good, but he is hurt way too much, same with martin...i almost puked when i saw 44 in there...

Martin and Barnes were a good first step in rebuilding that position.  But they had less than zero depth behind them and Brady took advantage.

I’m wondering if Mike Leach would be interested in shifting to defense? Could be the most beautiful thing this league has ever seen.

It seems that if it were up to MLF, Pettine would be gone.  But I don't know how they make that decision between him, MM and BG.