Kiss And Make Up Time?

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:

quote:

Favre was told to hang it up

Your opinion is flat out wrong. He retired of his own free will. He cried at his press conference in March & then tried to force his way back onto the team when they had "moved on". Those are the facts & they are undisputable

Ultimately, I think you're right--or closest to right.
It was obvious in that HFCC game vs the Giants that Bert did NOT want to be there. It was maybe the first confirmation that ol' Bert wasn't as tough as hyped, or surely wasn't like he was years earlier at the least.
It's JMHO that MM and TT knew at that moment that his time was done, and he likely would've had to compete with ARod in training camp had he returned. Bert saved them from ever having to get that far; when he "retired" he gave the team what it needed to move on with Arod ("we've moved on").

I don't get Murphy's continued obsession with resolving this Favre drama. The reality is it's not his call to make -- the ball is squarely in Favre's court. If Favre wants to be welcomed back to the Packer family, then he has some serious public and private groveling to do to AR, MM, TT, and the fans. Period.

Lots of legends change teams at the end of their careers - Montana, Rice, Emmitt Smith, Peyton Manning etc. And while these are never easy transitions, no one managed to bungle their good will as much as Favre. He put AR, MM, and TT in a terrible position with his on-again, off-again retirement. He made a mockery of training camp, intentionally undermining everything MM and AR were trying to accomplish before the season. He publicly bad mouthed the team and TT in interviews during the saga. And then when he finally gets his way, he starts placing calls to division rivals to help them beat the Pack.

If Favre had any decency, let alone an ounce of humility, he would apologize and acknowledge that he didn't handle things as well as he should have and he's happy how things worked out for the Packers. That's all it takes -- he does that, then Murphy can pop the cork on this party he desperately wants to throw.

But we all know Favre won't do that. It's funny someone told a Pete Rose story earlier in the thread b/c they are two peas in a pod -- their arrogance prevents their great career accomplishments from being truly recognized. Favre's post-career appears to be following the same path of his playing career -- just waiting for the Packers to kiss his behind and beg him to come back. Murphy's apparently taken the bait; I hope no one else does.

AtTheMurph, from what I know of TT and MM, in fact most NFL GMs and coaches they don't make big decisions at the end of an emotional loss. Period. An owner might but I highly doubt anybody told Brent he was done after playoff loss to Giants. MM pissed? Yes. Thought about benching Brent at the half? Yes. Maybe GB decided it was time to move on after season review and they thought they dodged a bullet when Favre retired. I remember Favre aborted a Miss. visit about un-retirement from TT and MM during that offseason. If they told him he was done they wouldn't agree to fly down there and talk. After he cancelled trip he said "I'm retiring."

I'd like to take the high road on Favre but I'm not there yet. Ball is in Favre's court.

quote:

Originally posted by RatPack:
Maybe we should retire Teblow's number?

Hmm... I think 15 is already up there!

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Originally posted by GreenBayLA:
AtTheMurph, from what I know of TT and MM, in fact most NFL GMs and coaches they don't make big decisions at the end of an emotional loss.

But they also want their own guys and have egos the size of Uraguay too. And they need to. Thompson came in a blew up the team with a HoF QB who could still play and prepare to transition from a now-legend at QB to a new era. That's no job for someone who doesn't have an overvalued sense of self, especially when players are more (monetarily anyway) "valued". Heck, Thompson makes half of what McCarthy does according to JSO, which puts him at about 1/8 of what Rodgers/Flacco/etc. make.

It's a tough job with tough calls, there are no humble guys in that position who are successful. It's a meat grinder.

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he likely would've had to compete with ARod in training camp had he returned.

if memory serves me right, that was part of bert's hissy fit when he finally flew up and showed up at training camp. TT and/or MM said he could rejoin the team but that he wouldn't be handed the starting job and would have to compete - which they all knew meant bert was gonna be the backup.

I'm saying this with no reference to the post that preceded it.

I find it quite curious that many posters in here give Mark Murphy no credit at all in what may be nothing more than his feeling – his judgment -- of what is the right thing for the Packers organization to do. Many of these posters will, of course, disagree with coaching moves or draft choices made by other management members, while deferring to their judgment. But not Murphy. And especially not on Favre.

They forget that Brett did carry this team for quite a while. One poster had said that Favre was never coachable, but that is not true – Holmgren did it quite well. The SB 32 loss and Terrell Owens catch the next year could not reasonably be laid on Favre, or at least on Favre alone.

After that loss came the great Ron Wolf’s choice as head coaching replacement – Ray Rhodes, whose teams had been noted for years for not looking prepared. Favre carried the team that year to whatever it was going to achieve. If memory serves he engineered three or four last-minute victories.

Then we got Ron Wolf Choice II – Mike Sherman. He didn’t exactly lay down the law (it looked to me) but things were respectable. In this period several posters would lament that Wolf had never provided much help for Brett at the WR or RB spot but that this was not as bad as it seemed because Brett made his receivers better than they actually were.

Yes, he had a miserable playoff game against the Rams. Dan Marino lost one by something like 63-7, but he’s legendary so no one talks about that.
Yes, later Brett was QB when the long Lambeau win streak ended against the Falcons – in a game in which it seemed almost every first-string offensive player was hurt except linemen.

In the legendary Packer “choke” game, I don’t remember Brett being on the field for the 4th and 26 play, and he didn’t trip on 4th and goal from the Eagles’ one, and I believe he didn’t call the punt on 4th and short. He did throw a bad interception which you could say lost the game – but he had plenty of help before that.

Like it or not, Brett did carry the Pack for quite a while; like it or not, at least partly because of his leadership, the Pack was either in or near the playoffs almost every year after he arrived. And no, everything bad that happened wasn’t his fault. Anyone remember the years 1973-1988? IMO, Old No. 4 is a very large part of the difference.

I have never had the idea that Brett is the subtlest thinker in the world and genuinely believe he had a tendency to speak early, when he probably should have just shut up for a while. I also believe he really butchered things in 2007 by trying to explain too much, going on TV, etc., as well as taking some things the Packers did or said way out of context: TT’s offer of his locker and stuff around it, for one.

As far as revenge and sticking it to someone goes, the Packers have it all – SB 45.

My feeling is Murphy is right, that it’s unseemly for a class organization like the Packers to have this chipped, unfilled, jagged tooth of a situation hanging around. It’s time to make up as best one can.

No.

What he said.

Some people don't like traitor perverts. Sue us.

Murphy can say what he will but the time will not be right, as has been said on here already, until bert makes some kind of indication that he'd like to be a part of the GBP famdamily again. I have yet to see any indication that he cares one way or the other. It's up to bert and bert alone no matter what the GBP want.

quote:

Originally posted by Fountainfox:
I find it quite curious that many posters in here give Mark Murphy no credit at all in what may be nothing more than his feeling – his judgment -- of what is the right thing for the Packers organization to do.

I'll credit Murphy for having this feeling – his judgment, he's just flat out wrong about it being the right thing for the Packers organization at this time.

The rest of your post, regarding Favre's value to the team after Holmgren/Reggie left and Wolf's pure choices for succession, has nothing to do with the statement I quoted above. Murphy is wrong because too many fans would boo Favre in any reunion setting at this time. The summer of 2008 left a lot of fans seriously disliking Favre and that has not changed.

It's not time to make up as best one can.

quote:

It’s time to make up as best one can.

Its not time....not by a longshot

You are correct Sir!

FF & Murphy!

Fountain Fox, thanks for that trip down memory lane, and I think that is a place most of us were with #4 before the Training Camp soap opera of 2008. But, TOG's actions, words, and intent since has been 180 degrees inconsistent. Wisconsin fans are blindly loyal and salt of he earth type folks. But, should the line ever get crossed, repeatedly in his case, all the previous warm fuzzy crap gets thrown out the window.

Right, wrong, or indifferent - it's how it is.

TOG could call Greta up and have a tissue party and apologize or at least acknowledge what being a Packer menant to him - and solidifies the reason for a reunion - and some fans may forgive and welcome him back. Others probably won't - and I can't blame them either.

Until some olive branch comes from TOG, there will be anymosity. Balls in his court, but given his track record, I personally won't be counting on it until his money dries up or hell freezes over.

Way too early for this discussion. I'm just beginning to enjoy a string of offseasons without any Brent drama.

Let it cool for a few more years. Hopefully another SB ring will make some fans relax
And forgive

quote:

Originally posted by Fountainfox:

They forget that Brett did carry this team for quite a while.

Nope.

Nobody forgets any of what he did early in his career, but for many of us - those good moments do not absolve him of taking responsibility for the absolute schit-head things he did to the Packers both on the field and off. They aren't mutually exclusive positions

The rest of your post reads like an apologists' almanac- and that's that same mentality that allowed bert to think he was bigger than the team and the league

And I don't blame ya too much- many of us wrote the same dumb excuses about him for years

But the reality is that he went out of his way to **** over the organization that took a chance on him and made him a star instead of a 3rd string overweight drunk in Atlanta.

Actions have consequences no matter how many TD passes you throw or whether or not you played a part in the resurrection of a franchise.

Accountability for your actions is applicable to everybody.

Its not a difficult concept.

He needs to go on Greta for 3 nights on national TV and apologize, the very same plan he used to take shots at the Packers organization - and when he does, its likely that the healing will be accelerated

Murphy has no chance of making this happen until bert does his part, and so far he's not only shown an unwillingness to do so, he continues to crap on the Packers ( see Gerg Jennings recent comments)

He tells the bears players to "stick it to the packers"
He calls the lions front office to offer help in beating the packers
he colludes with the vikings and bevell while still a packer

I don't have the time nor interest in listing all of his transgressions, but they are many and time alone won't heal what he did. He's not some innocent misunderstood guy. He's a bitter spiteful self-centered prick and adulterer focused on getting revenge

He's an embarrassment to the organization and putting his number in the Ring of HONOR is an affront to the guys already up there.

He has to come clean and seriously apologize. But his ego won't let him and his sycophants convince him he did nothing wrong

No sale in Packerland...

Once again you cut thru the BS Satori, excellent post.

quote:

Originally posted by Hungry5:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fountainfox:
Murphy is wrong because too many fans would boo Favre in any reunion setting at this time.

And Favre knows this. He will never subject himself to that kind of abuse. Murphy and the Favre loving fans can think whatever they want, but there is much butthurt left in the great interception thrower.

Personally, I don't care either way. They can buy a gold mine for him if they want. I still won't care for the man. The ceremony won't mean jack to me...except it will be fun watching him booed.

I'm for Favre having his number placed in the stadium as long as its in the stadium the vikes are building. Farve made moves behind the public's view to be a vike for several years before he left Green Bay. He want them,they wanted him, aperfect ending for a creep.

I agree with bits and pieces of most everyone posting in this thread. I also think all opinions on this are valid even if I don't agree.

While he'll still be booed (loudly) by most of the fans at Lambeau if him and Murphy are dumb enough to try to do this next year, it will be almost all cheers in 5 years, with most of those people wondering "why'd it take them so long to bring him back?". The vast majority of fans don't know all of the ****ty things he did behind the scenes, it's almost entirely rooted in the fact that he played for the Vikings. Lambeau was full of dopes in #4 Jets jerseys during that first season. Even when it was all still going on, explaining the stuff about the phone calls to the Lions and Vikings or the fact that the Packers were actually willing to bring him back before the draft (he changed his mind the night before he was supposed to fly back to Lambeau for the announcement) went in one ear and out the other with most fans. No matter how well your argument was supported by the facts, it just didn't matter, it wasn't able to break through the positive image that existed of him, only his playing the Vikings was finally able to do that. The only ones who will remember everything he did in 5 years were those of us who recognized him for what he is and hated his guts before he even got his dream job in Minnesota.

quote:

Originally posted by LarseeBear:
Some people don't like traitor perverts. Sue us.

Thompson and McCarthy wanted to move to their guy, Rodgers (which is their decision to make), and were making it clear to Favre this was the case, guy who meant "more to the franchise history" at the time. Traitor is simply a matter of perspective.

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Originally posted by Satori:
And I don't blame ya too much- many of us wrote the same dumb excuses about him for years

This.

I really don't think the Packers as an organization (Wolf, Harlan, Holmgren) got enough credit for shielding Packer fans and for that matter the NFL from showing at times what a self-centered ego maniac a-hole Favre was and how much it likely took to keep him focused on the team aspect of the game and for him to stay disciplined. According to Favre, as early as after winning the SB he was already spewing the retirement word. Just imagine as an organization putting up with that from 1998-2007.

But when Sherman came on board, Favre's true colors became more and more apparent. From getting his own locker room to being able to attend OTA's when he felt like it (remember the "sore ankle" that always got worse during OTA's?) to treating rookies like schit the ego just spun out of control.

In walks TT/MM. And that was the end of Lord Favre.

As others have said, Mark Murphy grossly underestimates fan forgiveness. Packer fans have memories like no other.

My nomination for post of the year:

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Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
No.

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Originally posted by Benedict Arnold:
Traitor is simply a matter of perspective.

I was wondering when the Great Defender would arrive to save the day

I applaud your consistency Herschel, don't ever change. And now that TOG isn't getting any from Deanna or Jenn Sterger, perhaps you could offer your services.

Do you by chance have long dark hair ?

Yeah, not saying or taking one side or the other is 100% right is being "the great defender". Favre did a lot of stupid crap but saying the whole thing was "his fault" is stupid. Thompson and McCarthy's egos are no less than Favre's, nor should they be. The fact is Favre was the aging QB and Thompson was the GM so Thompson was in the position to make the decisions, not Favre (and rightfully so). Don't make it seem like Favre wasn't shown the proverbial "writing on the wall" in indelicate ways. By all reports he was good friends with Mark Brunell and Aaron Brooks as well as Doug Pederson and the career backup guys.

Don't mistake this message board as a pulse of the majority of Packers fans. Murphy's a smart guy, if he thinks the time is right for whatever "mending" move needs to be done it's because he has a lot of information telling him this. A small group of people taking a side in the "divorce" isn't going to sway him one way or another.

quote:

Originally posted by Satori:

He tells the bears players to "stick it to the packers"
He calls the lions front office to offer help in beating the packers
he colludes with the vikings and bevell while still a packer

That right there sums it up for me. To me that is petty, childish, and I am one who won't forget that for long time.

quote:

Originally posted by Herschel:
Favre did a lot of stupid crap but saying the whole thing was "his fault" is stupid.

There probably are some who think it is all Favre's fault and they are misremembering things as much as those who staunchly defend him. The difference I see is that TT/MM did not take the spat with Favre public unless directly asked, and even then there were numerous "quite frankly's" is the response.

As much as Thompson gets credited for his quite frankly comments, he nearly as often says I don't talk/think/work in hypotheticals.

The one big organizational PR f'up in this was letting Murphy float the $20mm marketing deal.

Very true. We know this stuff goes on, but that doesn't mean I want to hear about it. I want to watch a good football team, let the guys paid to deal with that crap deal with it and not bother me with it. That said, with the popularity of "reality" TV maybe I'm in the minority about not wanting to hear about it. The publicity game is big business.

Heck, I'd love to hear TT actually talk about draft philosophy, scouting, etc. after the draft but that's not going to happen.

I think one thing that might be driving this timeline, is that Brent will be elected in NFL HOF within the next couple of years. I think Murphy realizes that there will be some egg on the face of the Packers if Brent is in the HOF but can't come back to GB. That's nobody's fault but Brent's, but I would imagine that Murphy realizes it might take a year or two to pave his return, so he is laying the groundwork now? Foolishly IMO.

Personally, Satori hit the nail on the head. Especially, with the BS with the Bears/Lions/Vikes. Those actions are unforgivable.

Why the Murphy dislike?

He's taking the high road. Again. WTF do want him to do?

It's all on Favre. You can't handle it much better than Murphy has.

Damn.

What do I want him to do? JSTFU

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Originally posted by GBFanForLife:
What do I want him to do? JSTFU

X2!

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many of us wrote the same dumb excuses about him for years

Very true. Myself included. but he taught me a valuable lesson. I won't ever fall for that crap again. Not for any person on the planet not Rodgers not anybody.

Good leaders generally get out in front of these things.

You want the head of this organization to put his head in the sand regarding the inevitable?

I guess some do. I don't.

Personally, I'll never welcome TOG back. Doesn't mean that's the right way to do things.

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Packer fans have memories like no other

we love you like a family member until you f*** us..... don't f*** us

quote:

Personally, I'll never welcome TOG back. Doesn't mean that's the right way to do things.

interesting point. however it still not time.

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By all reports he was good friends with Mark Brunell and Aaron Brooks as well as Doug Pederson and the career backup guys.

he's good friends with Doug Pederson because Doug Pederson posed ZERO threat to him as a starting quarterback. You'll notice Mark Brunell & Aaron Brooks were traded away..... did you forget that?

And Packer Russ makes a great point too- the League is leaning on Murphy to get this fixed before they have a fiasco at the HOF induction ceremony

I don't believe any player has been boo'd at the ceremony before and an image-conscious league can't have anybody crapping on their coronation