LaFleur Officially Takes Over (2023)

I hope I am right but I think we are getting ready to see just how good MLF really is.  I think we are going to see the offense how he envisions it.  A very good OL, TEs who can stretch the center of the field, a QB who will run the system and not play hero ball, and they will run the damn ball.

Where I want to see how good he is if he gets on the defense to finally play actual defense in spite of Barry.  This is where I think he will rise or sink with the defense and I believe will decide how good he really is.

We already know that MLF can pencil whip most DC's in the league.  But his biggest hurdle is figuring out how to eliminate the "soft" label when it comes to playing more physical teams, i.e. last year's SF and NYJ teams.  Didn't Dan Campbell also comment on this?  Team toughness also relates to another issue they've had, winning in crunch time.  Can he avoid being outcoached?

Softie MLF

2 sides to Yosh

Steno's not so positive take...

LaFleur, with the vote of confidence.

MLF is right. Injuries happen and having the depth is a nice luxury. Just as long as that depth hasn't regressed

We've seen MLF's offense. It was his first season here.  It was exciting and new and fresh and we did well. But AR didn't like being a "game manager" and having the RB's have more TD's than he did.  And so we went back to hero ball.

I'm hoping this year the team looks more like it did in 2019.

LaFleur / Steno

Good cop / Bad cop

Whatever works to get these guys playing to the best of their abilities.

https://www.tiktok.com/@ninja/...8gMoC6lA7kA&_r=1

Looks like Benkert couldn't take MLF being hard on him in practice.  MLF not so soft??  (or Benkert was more worried about his social media following than playing QB, you be the judge)

I'd want my HC to be hard on the most difficult position to play in QB. So assuming what he said is true, seems like he didn't want to put in the kind of work MLF was demanding.

It probably also tells you a lot why he's not anywhere in the NFL as well.

Agree. If you can't take what a coach is dishing, how are you going to take it on the field or in the media or from fans, etc.? MLF probably saw that Benkert had some ability but wasn't using it, so he was hard on him. The NFL is a pressure cooker, and I think Benkert just isn't cut out for it. Nothing wrong with that; just move on.

@vitaflo posted:

We've seen MLF's offense. It was his first season here.  It was exciting and new and fresh and we did well. But AR didn't like being a "game manager" and having the RB's have more TD's than he did.  And so we went back to hero ball.

I'm hoping this year the team looks more like it did in 2019.

It's not going to be as successful with Love until Love proves he can beat defenses with his arm, providing the threat of the passing game.  The run game works a helluva lot better when the D can't load the box on every play.  Either that or you scheme the pants off every D you face.  Which can work until you run into physical defenses like SF, NYJ, PHI and whenever DET plays us.

@Fandame posted:

MLF probably saw that Benkert had some ability but wasn't using it, so he was hard on him. The NFL is a pressure cooker, and I think Benkert just isn't cut out for it. Nothing wrong with that; just move on.

I'm guessing part of it was at that time in the offseason Benkert had by far the most experience in a Shanahan-style offense with Rodgers not being there yet and Adams gone and MLF expected Kurt to help get new players (Doubs, Watson, Toure, etc) adjusted to it but he just wasn't doing a good job of it in practice.

I'd be riding his ass too if he hadn't figured it out by then.

Something that MLF said in one of his pressers a couple of weeks back really surprised me (and the beat writer who asked the question). MLF said that the vast majority of the play calls had no option to change to another play at the LOS. Watching the last two games I have to wonder if that has become obvious to DCs? For example, it is first and 10 from our own 35 yard line. Our film analysis tells us that 75% of the time the defense is in a certain front / coverage, so we call a play that would give us some good opportunities vs. that look. Through self-scouting the DC knows that they have shown that defense 75% of the time so he calls something else. Now the opportunities that MLF thought he was getting aren't there. Thus a great number of plays that just don't have a chance. AR could get us out of those plays. Seems to have happened a lot in the last two games.

The Packers think #10 can be Brock Purdy. The problem is the rest of the offense isn't the 49ers.

The real problem isn't with #10...who has his shortcomings for sure and may or may not end up being the guy...the real problem is the OL and lack of playmakers.

The Packers have one consistent playmaker on offense...33. They've got some flash playmakers in Watson and Doubs. That's it for now...all working with an OL that is filled with young project players, or guys they drafted and have to use because they have no better options.

You have a defense loaded with first round draft picks that finds the least opportune times to not be able to get off the field.

And a HC who looks like he could break into tears at any moment.

People can point to the 3 Silos of Failure as a reason for Gutey having problems...but it's not Murphy that is telling him who to draft. He wears the crown of accountability for the state of this roster being where it is. Yeah, he unearthed gems like Rasul Douglas and Rudy Ford...but he's also swung and missed on some real turds...I would also include getting guys like Yosh Nijman who flashes just enough to keep you interested, but never really develops into a competent starter.

7-10 is about where I think this team will end up.

@Chongo posted:

I would also include getting guys like Yosh Nijman who flashes just enough to keep you interested, but never really develops into a competent starter.

Yosh got a pinky on the FG attempt and blocked it.

How dare you vilify Yosh

😆😁

Ok....Shanarat gets the ball out of Purdys hands very very fast thereby helping his O-Line. The Niners don't have 5 All-Pros up there blocking for Purdy. I don't understand why MLF isn't helping his QB with quick release outlet plays like the Niners and Lions do.....and don't tell me they don't have the players to do it either. We've seen it in the past. Love has to be more accurate and his receivers have CTFB! You know that thing they are paid to do.

We're seeing a lot of the same things week after week. This is not a knee jerk reaction from one game.

If MLF does not have the option to check out of plays that's fucking stupid!! And a recipe for disaster and also NOT putting your offense in a position to succeed.

It's a fire-able  offense. Let's see what happens after the bye. If we see more of the same, MLF has to be on the hot seat along with his Bulllllshiiiitttt DC

@The Heckler posted:

I hope I am right but I think we are getting ready to see just how good MLF really is.  I think we are going to see the offense how he envisions it.  A very good OL, TEs who can stretch the center of the field, a QB who will run the system and not play hero ball, and they will run the damn ball.

Less than two months and that didn’t age well. One reason I never predict anything.

@Blair Kiel posted:

Less than two months and that didn’t age well. One reason I never predict anything.

True story.  But, the season is far from over

This isn't just not having a HOF QB. This is coaching too. https://t.co/RL66Y6piDk

— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) October 10, 2023

1990.... I think that was Anthony Dillweg. Congrats! MLF - You set us back 33 years.

@Chongo posted:

The real problem isn't with #10...who has his shortcomings for sure and may or may not end up being the guy...the real problem is the OL and lack of playmakers.

The Packers have one consistent playmaker on offense...33. They've got some flash playmakers in Watson and Doubs. That's it for now...all working with an OL that is filled with young project players, or guys they drafted and have to use because they have no better options.

People can point to the 3 Silos of Failure as a reason for Gutey having problems...but it's not Murphy that is telling him who to draft. He wears the crown of accountability for the state of this roster being where it is.

Accountability in Green Bay?

Surely you jest.

In GB, Murph schmoozes the board, they all celebrate the butts in the bleachers at Lambeau (even if 1/3 of them are wearing Honolulu Blue), Murph extends his loyal lapdog GM and his hand-picked head coach and if the product on the field struggles they leak to the insular Wisconsin press that the real problem is the weirdo QB or the 2-time loser defensive coordinator.

And hey, not to distract, but donchya know that Green Bay is hosting the 2025 draft? What more could a Pack fan want?

As for the current GM, he has had six drafts to build HIS roster and as of the present time the lone consistent, and by far best, offensive playmaker (when he is healthy enough to play) is a RB drafted by his predecessor.

The current GM has drafted one good lineman, a guard in Jenkins, and possibly another good one in RT Tom. Myers and Runyan are JAGs.

By any measure, the current GM failed to add requisite offensive talent between 2018-2021.

The jury is still out on Watson, Doubs, Reed, Musgrave, Craft from the 2022 & 20223 drafts, and of course Jordan Love. We can only hope his ability to foresee offensive talent improved dramatically.

But when a GM uses premium draft picks on offensive players like Sternberger, Dillon, Degaura, Myers, and Rhyan and they either completely miss or turn out to be nothing more than JAGs, you get what we saw on last night.

@SteveLuke posted:

Accountability in Green Bay?

Surely you jest.

But when a GM uses premium draft picks on offensive players like Sternberger, Dillon, Degaura, Myers, and Rhyan and they either completely miss or turn out to be nothing more than JAGs, you get what we saw on last night.

C'mon dude. They ain't THAT bad. They lost by 4 and a play or 2 the other way, they win the game....even if they win something tells me you'd still be complaining

The feelings and comments before the season of "This is going to be a fun ride this year with a new QB and young guys! Love the enthusiasm! Who cares what the record ends up being; it's going to be a fun group to watch!" sure got lost in a hurry after a couple of losses.

Make no mistake: I think this team could be doing better. But I also see a team that continues to play hard to the very end, even against Detroit despite getting its butt whipped. I see a lot of potential in the young WRs. I see a good D that could perform really, really well with a coaching change. I see a young QB who struggles to find a good rhythm, stay calm at the start of games, and get his timing down; in other words, pretty typical of most first-year starting QBs.

It may be green-and-gold glasses, but I actually see more potential for this team now than I did in preseason. It's all those little things that didn't matter when they were in college that they have to learn as pros, especially on the offensive side. Many of those come only with time and experience, and yes, coaching. I'm unhappy with the coaching and I want things to be perfect RIGHT NOW, but a young team is like watching a middle-schooler: inconsistent, goofy at times, frustrating at others, and once in a while, something really good happens. Let's see what the rest of the year brings. 

@Fandame posted:

...but a young team is like watching a middle-schooler: inconsistent, goofy at times, frustrating at others, and once in a while, something really good happens...

And all that takes place before lunch.

Thinking back when MLF was hired...I wonder how much "keeping AR happy" played into the decision.  AR was stoked at first to get a McVay style offense because he saw the production potential and was tired of how stale MM had become. 

With AR gone, I wonder how much leash MLF truly has if the season's results heavily suggest his W/L record was due to AR.  I'm sure JL's success as a QB will be a significant variable in that equation.

I’ve gotten a lot of questions about my opinion / experience with MLF and will be very transparent on my comments of us “butting heads”.

I’ll start by giving my honest opinions about the scheme. It’s outdated, and there is a better way to play offense right now. I’m not going to…

— Kurt Benkert (@KurtBenkert) October 10, 2023

I have no idea how spot on or way off Benkert's comments are on MLF's offense being outdated. He runs a version of the Shanahan offense that gives current, good defenses fits. And yes, a lot of that is also because of the personnel SF has vs GB.

But what I have seen now under MLF is a theme of predictability. Elgton Jenkins commented last night that he thought Max Crosby and the Raiders had figured out the Packers silent count. And that helped him tremendously in timing to get off the line.

A week before that, Jarred Goff told Rusul Douglas they figured out the defense and where Douglas would be on a scoring play. Goff said once GB lined up a certain way, he knew exactly where the Packers DB's would be.

Last season, on both defense and offense, opposing players said the Packers would show pre-snap exactly what play was coming including fakes because of the personnel they brought out.

Now, is the GB the only ones to show their tells and defenses pick on them? I highly doubt it. But it's worth noting other teams don't seem surprised what and when the Packers will run plays and seem to know what's coming.

I really can’t put much juice behind what the great Kurt Benkert says.  

What if Ricky Stanzzzi said it?

MLF'S scheme is NOT outdated. He's not running MM's offense but he does need to start getting the ball out of his QBs hand a lot faster than he is.

The Packers showing tells....they're supposed to change that shit every week so it's not on film. When Rodgers was here he talked about it.

This is what I'm talking about with MLF, that's his job to "self-scout" which is something he mentioned they would do after the Lions loss.

Come the eff on man.....this is basic shit you need to do as a head coach.

Oh Kurt, you sweet summer child.   Of course that’s the main reason you’re not leading the Packers to glory right now.

That is just an excerpt of a larger article where he goes into more detail about the relationship they had. He praised several OCs but not MLF.

Maybe Kurt was bangin' Matt's wife. It happens.

Herman places a significant degree of blame on MLF (justifiability so, IMO).

Unimpressed by what he's shown so far this season.

I'll take Benkert's comments with a big grain of salt, but his comments 'sound' open, honest, and frank. I appreciate that.
I have no idea what his "better way to play offense" involves, but if it has any validity, somebody would be using it, whether it's high school, college, or some professional level. Perhaps it is and I'm not aware, but I'm not going to invest any time listening to previous podcasts to find out.

Our offense is currently ranked about where MLF's Titans offense was the year before he came here, 28th. If this is where the offense finishes, the general conclusion will be that previous success was more AR than MLF. People would scream about AR changing plays, but now after hearing MLF apologize for calling a run to the side that a blitz was coming from, you have to wonder how many times AR got us out of these plays? Still shocked to hear MLF admit that they have few plays that Love has the ability to "can", although he did say they were adding more of these. It just seems to me that too many times the opponent is not in the defense that we expected and the play is automatically doomed.

@Boris posted:

This isn't just not having a HOF QB. This is coaching too. https://t.co/RL66Y6piDk

— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) October 10, 2023

1990.... I think that was Anthony Dillweg. Congrats! MLF - You set us back 33 years.

And Blair Kiel’s team too, the late QB, not our friendly fellow X4 poster 😀.

That 1990 team wasn’t half bad until Majik went down with the rotator cuff injury.  Then the season quickly turned into a nightmare.  The lowlight of that bad offensive stretch in ‘90 was the Tony Mandarich/Reggie White matchup when we played the Eagles.  Mandarich was dominated so badly, his career completely fell apart and he became known as “The Incredible Bust”.

@fightphoe93 posted:

And Blair Kiel’s team too, the late QB, not our friendly fellow X4 poster 😀.

Who you callin' 'friendly' bub...

Comments like that will not get you invited to Thanksgiving dinner.

😁

MLF had better figure out how to be a head coach in the next 2 weeks.

That loss against the Raiders was so preventable.

@fightphoe93 posted:

The lowlight of that bad offensive stretch in ‘90 was the Tony Mandarich/Reggie White matchup when we played the Eagles.  Mandarich was dominated so badly, his career completely fell apart and he became known as “The Incredible Bust”.

I remember that game well. Mike Golic played on that great Eagles D Line with Reggie and IIRC, he said that Jerome Brown told Reggie to stop throwing Mandarich so far into the backfield, as his body was impeding the rush of the rest of the DL.

@ilcuqui posted:

I remember that game well. Mike Golic played on that great Eagles D Line with Reggie and IIRC, he said that Jerome Brown told Reggie to stop throwing Mandarich so far into the backfield, as his body was impeding the rush of the rest of the DL.

The play you are talking about is at the 2:15 mark in this Youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0insrWWjvPo

Mandarich's career fell apart independent of Reggie dominating him. He was on more steroids in college than most bodybuilders and when he had to come off of them to pass drug tests in the NFL he turned into the equivalent of a 7th round draft pick.

Reggie threw guys around that were a lot better than Mandarich. Look at these clips. Larry Allen was one of the best offensive lineman of all time and Reggie threw him around like he was a rag doll.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Aj2PDfGwmWw

The best one ever was when Cris Carter tried to block him (probably where Joe Barry got his idea for blocking schemes?) and Reggie threw him 5 yards backwards into Warren Moon so hard that Moon almost fell down. Reggie then finished up the sack. I remember watching this play live and laughing so hard  I spit out the soda I was drinking. I know Carter was a WR, but Reggie threw a 210 pound guy backwards so hard he almost knocked over his own QB like a bowling pin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNfvoGI9DQ0