Monday. A Black.

The @Browns have decided to officially part ways with assistant GM Elliot Wolf and VP/personnel Alonzo Highsmith now that Andrew Berry has been hired as GM, per sources

— Chris Mortensen (@mortreport) January 29, 2020

As @DustinFox37 said, Browns VP of player personnel Alonzo Highsmith and the team have agreed to part ways. Assistant GM Eliot Wolf's status remains uncertain -- he has two years left of his contract.

— Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer) January 29, 2020

A bit of confusion out there on Wolf's status.

Mort just verified both are gone. 

Update: Wolf has not been officially informed of his future in Cleveland. A source says there is a ongoing discussion about whether Wolf stays or goes under current setup. 

— Chris Mortensen (@mortreport) January 29, 2020

I'd take Wolf back

Shocking 

Cleveland is a fucking disaster

Rinse and repeat 

The #Browns and assistant GM Eliot Wolf have agreed to mutually part ways, source said. Respected executive should be a hot commodity for other teams.

— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) January 29, 2020

Hard to turn a franchise around in the time they were given, but hiring Kitchens was a horrible decision.

Hall of Fame GM Ron Wolf said the @Browns and others who embrace an analytics-driven model are "out of control."
Wolf: "When something goes wrong, who takes responsibility?
"Their answer: `Well, that's what the data told us.' What a crock. That's what got 'em 1-31."

— Chris Mortensen (@mortreport) January 29, 2020

What a dumpster fire that franchise is. Good grief. 

So "the data" takes responsibility. perfect. 

As Henry says...."MannyBall doesn't work in the NFL."

There's only 16 games & you need to win 10-11 of them to get into the playoffs. 

Come home Eliot....come home. 

I'm just imagining Ron Wolf watched this scene and was like OH FUCK YOU BILLY BEANE! 

Analytics only goes so far; they're still games played with the heart.

The reasoning is simple.  Baseball, basketball even hockey all essentially come down to one point/person making a play.  Nobody is going to tackle you in when you're up to bat.  No one is running stride by stride with an outfielder.  In basketball the net doesn't move or have a bad day.  Even hockey breaks down to a puck in a net, not a ball thrown to another guy to be able to run it into the EZ or 5 guys making their blocks to spring a RB.  One guy makes/takes the shot/makes the play in baseball, basketball and hockey regardless of other team factors.  That doesn't happen in football.

Baseball also has a ton more data points you can collect that are, like you said, from individual measurable sources. The biggest difference in quantity coming from 162 vs 16 games played per season.

Fandame posted:

Analytics only goes so far; they're still games played with the heart.

Don't forget grit!  Or Fire in the Belly. Or the ability to will a team to win

It's pad level.

PERIOD.

Analytics are useful....but...don't account for hiring incompetent coaches(Jackson, Kitchens, etc...), repeatedly blowing high draft picks(Johnny Manziel, Trent Richardson, Barkevious Mingo, Tim Couch,  Brandon Weedon, etc...) and giving millions of dollars to washed up players(Andre Rison, Jeff Garcia, Kenny Britt, Jake Delhomme, Dwayne Bowe, etc...) and  shitty human beings (Odell Beckham Junior) . 

Analytics say : Browns - You Suck !! 

Analytics don't mean shit in football.    Too many variables on each and every play to possibly get close to providing any type of useful number.    The basics team stats, points allowed, yards allowed and so on are the best you can do and those are flawed because of variables that cannot be controlled or accounted for within a 16 game season.   Any scientist worth a shit would laugh at someone even attempting to pass that off as a reasonable data set.  

More Packers’ staff news. It’s a results-based business.

@RobDemovsky: Packers receivers coach Alvis Whitted has been let go, a source said. Coach Matt LaFleur is on the lookout for a replacement. Whitted's position group didn't have a lot of high draft picks after Davante Adams but struggled to find a consistent No. 2. So there at least one change on each side of the ball after Jerry Gray replaced Jason Simmons as defensive backs coach.

if you're not improving you're falling behind

I’m surprised because he has really good success at CSU and seemed to be a coach on the rise, but also not very surprised because it felt like MVS and others took a big step back. 

I’m just gonna say it: Coach Jordy? 

Has Jordy ever given any indication he's like to coach? Probably not at this point.

What makes you so sure he would even be a good coach?

May well have deserved to be fired but it's not like the organization gave him a lot to work with. Gutey rolled the dice on the position and came up empty.

I was mostly kidding about Jordy. He was such a great mentor and leader for young players that I do think he could transition to coaching and be successful, but who knows if he wants to. Seems like a family man who likes the quiet life. 

michiganjoe posted:

May well have deserved to be fired but it's not like the organization gave him a lot to work with. Gutey rolled the dice on the position and came up empty.

When Gmo and MVS regressed significantly in one season the coach is definitely as much to blame.  Granted, it's scrub central but that was a huge back slide this year.  Hell, they didn't even have as much pressure on them considering how the run game emerged. 

But hey, #1 in separation.

Perhaps their regression was simply toward the mean. Talent level of both is a huge question mark.

To be fair, they were also working in an entirely new system just like the rest of the offense.  I'm sure there were communications issues plenty from QB  to WR and considering guys like MVS are only in the second year and playing with a QB like Rodgers that could be a hell of a learning curve. 

I'd give MVS another shot simply because of his speed and size.  Kumerow and Allison, not so much.  I'm looking forward to what EQ can do as well.  They need 1 good FA (not superstar just reliable) and a high draft pick IMO.

MVS is the most perplexing. He seemed on his way to being a solid #2 and then has a train-wreck of a season. In defense of Gute, am guessing he thought Davante, second year MVS, and Eqaunimeous/Geronimo would be a solid group.

Injuries screwed part of it up (and a draft bust) but player development went backwards. Surprised on Whitted cause he had done impressive work at Colorado, but the 2019 results were just bad. Glad to see LaFluer making the necessary improvements.

My hunch is that this move was less about the fact that there wasn't more production from GMO/MVS/etc., it's the fact that there were some serious technique and preparedness issues. I think a lot of "bad throws" we attributed to Rodgers may have been bad routes or a bad adjustment by the receivers, certainly Rodgers didn't have many of those bad throws to Adams or even Lazard. Seemed like a lot of drops and mental errors from MVS and GMO as well after previous years where one or both looked pretty competent. I'm guessing that pattern and maybe even how he conducted his game prep was more of the cause than just looking at production. 

I'm sure there will be more subtractions/additions over the next couple of years.  It's to be expected when cobbling together an entirely new staff for the most part.  Some of it may simply be the ability to work together as well. 

Grave Digger posted:

My hunch is that this move was less about the fact that there wasn't more production from GMO/MVS/etc., it's the fact that there were some serious technique and preparedness issues. I think a lot of "bad throws" we attributed to Rodgers may have been bad routes or a bad adjustment by the receivers, certainly Rodgers didn't have many of those bad throws to Adams or even Lazard. Seemed like a lot of drops and mental errors from MVS and GMO as well after previous years where one or both looked pretty competent. I'm guessing that pattern and maybe even how he conducted his game prep was more of the cause than just looking at production. 

Digger, I think you nailed it.  I think many think that some bad throws are on #12 but in football it also is up to the receiver to adjust as well in certain situations.  Yes I agree AR has had bad throws but I think it is a breakdown from the WR's as well.  

I remember more than a couple times the wr's getting man-handled and that was not impressive to watch.  either physically knocked off the route, or losing a fight for the ball - either while the ball is in the air or about to be caught.  that's not a great thing. i think the physicality piece can be coaching sure...its stuff that can be taught.

Adams seemed to be a lost cause, but he developed in year 3. Between MVS, Kumerow, and Lazard, there’s talent, someone’s got to emerge. I don’t believe for one second they’re all to be tossed aside. Hopefully the coach can get these guys going... 

Frankly, I thought Lazard emerged as a keeper already.  Do I want him as a starter? No, but I think he's a very good #4 WR and adequate #3 receiver.  It's the #2 slot they badly need to fill with a quality player.

Music City posted:

Adams seemed to be a lost cause, but he developed in year 3. 

No. He didn't. He showed a ton of potential and beginning production as a rookie and was playing hurt most of his second season. Anybody who saw him play his first year could see he possessed rare skills. I don't care how many times this has to be repeated.  It's a f'ing mission now.

Get that rubber stamp yet?

DH13 posted:

Music City posted:

Adams seemed to be a lost cause, but he developed in year 3. 

No. He didn't. He showed a ton of potential and beginning production as a rookie and was playing hurt most of his second season. Anybody who saw him play his first year could see he possessed rare skills. I don't care how many times this has to be repeated.  It's a f'ing mission now.

I agree with you, but there were A LOT of people who believed he was a lost cause. Tons of arguments here that he wouldn’t even make the roster during TC of year 3. 

fightphoe93 posted:

Frankly, I thought Lazard emerged as a keeper already.  Do I want him as a starter? No, but I think he's a very good #4 WR and adequate #3 receiver.  It's the #2 slot they badly need to fill with a quality player.

I actually think, with a good WR coach, that he could develop into a solid #2. His measurables are almost identical to Mike Evans and it seems like he has the right attitude. Obviously measurables aren’t everything, but it just means has the tools to compete at this level. Get him some quality coaching and we might have something. 

Lazard definitely needs the coaching.  He's not going to be able to play sandlot indefinitely.  That's his challenge, run good routes.  He's got the size to manhandle a DB.