michiganjoe posted:McCarthy says the #Packers defense needs to be better than the offense moving forward. "That needs to happen." Will certainly be a tall task.
— Michael Cohen (@Michael_Cohen13) January 4, 2018Lofty and probably unrealistic goal from MM.
Weird comment.
Yes CB, what’s wrong with high expectations?
if MM wants the defense to be better then the offense, here's your 1st tip:
You don't hire any in-house candidate. You need an outside DC who's going to hold players like HHCD, Matthews, Perry, Fackrell, etc to a higher standard. None of MM's inside guys appear capable of that. The last thing MM needs is more of the same.
i will tell you the way the timing is going to work here, moss/whitt will be the guy. it will take time to get all this gm sorted out - then mm will pick, most guys may/will be gone, except guys like moss/whitt...that is just an opinion, i hate it, but listening to mm - he's in no rush to make a choice when all the good candidates are around...I doubt anyone from the playoffs will be fired, so we have the candidates now that will be willing and able to make an impact, he's going to slow play it until those guys are gone and go in house, I hope to hell I am wrong, but reading him, he's in NO RUSH.
Because that makes a lot of f'ing sense.... Your three guys are people that should've been fired for sucking in the first place.
Come on MM!!!!!!!!!!!
I would like the D to be better than the O as well. D still wins championships. If you doubt that, look how many X4ers point to how good the D was in 2010. Yes, AR was lights out, but the D was the hammer. Or you could look across the river to the Sandcrawler, as that team is where it is now due to the D.
Because their HC is a D guy who knows how to build and run a D.
Brak posted:bigdoggyjude posted:I like University of South Carolina's Travaris Robinson
So do I. Right where he is, thanks.
Fandame posted:I would like the D to be better than the O as well. D still wins championships. If you doubt that, look how many X4ers point to how good the D was in 2010. Yes, AR was lights out, but the D was the hammer. Or you could look across the river to the Sandcrawler, as that team is where it is now due to the D.
Giants new GM Dave Gettleman in his presser said he the same and cited that 6 times in the SB, it was #1 offense versus #1 defense, and #1 defense teams won 5 of 6 of those Superbowls.
Rules are different now - benefitting the offense.
Defense & a running game will get you far.
Bottom line, Now you need your QB to make plays to win it all.
Fact of life in today's NFL.
Best QB's left in the playoffs?
Tier 1 - Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger
Tier 2 - Goff, Ryan, Alex Smith maybe Cam
Tier 3 - Everyone else
Cam won't make a play with his arm.
Sounds like the Packers were going to promote Tim McGarigle to linebacker coach OR inside linebacker coach OR outside linebacker coach...what title and unit was going to be dependent on what happens with Winston Moss. But instead McGarigle quit and is heading to Northwestern, apparently catching McCarthy off-guard. McGarigle is a Northwestern graduate.
McGargle reading the tea leaves & bolting off the sinking ship
Fandame posted:I would like the D to be better than the O as well. D still wins championships. If you doubt that, look how many X4ers point to how good the D was in 2010. Yes, AR was lights out, but the D was the hammer. Or you could look across the river to the Sandcrawler, as that team is where it is now due to the D.
I remember the end of the game. Steelers offense was on the field and stopped by the D. Packers offense previously failed to get a TD and Steelers could have won it with a TD. Didn't have a ton of clock, but had some.
Steelers had the #1 Def in 2010.
If MM promotes one of those turds, job #1 for the new GM needs to be Head Coach replacement.
Hungry5 posted:Steelers had the #1 Def in 2010.
But did Packers have #1 offense?
Packers had #1 defense in 1996 
No, they were not the #1 offense in 2010.
My point there, and it agrees with what you have said often, the game is geared toward the offense. At some point in the playoffs, the QB is going to need to make plays.
Defense and running game can win you games during the year because there are so few elite QBs, but in the playoffs balance is a necessity.
When was the last time a defense carried a team to a Superb Owl victory?
DEN in 2016, but even then they had Manning at QB. Granted, he was no longer accurate past about 20 yards, but he could dissect a defense as good as any QB ever. And the DEN defense only had to stop Cam from running. Before that, I think you'd have to go back to 2001 and the Ravens, or maybe 203 and the Buccaneers.
We've seen plenty defensive stops to end Super Bowls, so I'm not discounting the need for a good defense. But to get to the playoffs and advance these days, you need very good QB play.
In the years where the #1 D beat the #1 O in the SB, I would wonder what the other rankings were for the two teams. Was one #1 D and #5 O and the other #1 O and #15 D? Context matters. As does my laziness.
phaedrus posted:Fandame posted:I would like the D to be better than the O as well. D still wins championships. If you doubt that, look how many X4ers point to how good the D was in 2010. Yes, AR was lights out, but the D was the hammer. Or you could look across the river to the Sandcrawler, as that team is where it is now due to the D.
I remember the end of the game. Steelers offense was on the field and stopped by the D. Packers offense previously failed to get a TD and Steelers could have won it with a TD. Didn't have a ton of clock, but had some.
Rodgers was lights out for the 2010 playoff run except for the Bears game. The thing people tend to forget is that the defense made stops in all those games to seal it (except for Atlanta).
1. The Philly game ended on a Tramon Williams interception in the end zone on a 1st and 10 from the 27 with 44 seconds left. A TD would have won it for Philly.
2. The Atlanta game didn't require a stop at the end, but the game turned with Tramon's pick 6 at the end of the first half when Atlanta was trying to pick up another 5 yards to kick a FG. That play was set up CM3 getting a sack that pushed them out of FG range on the previous play.
3. The Bear game ended when Sam Shields picked off a pass with under a minute left in the red zone with the Bears driving to force OT. Not to mention the BJ Raji pick 6.
4. Tramon Williams batted down a pass on 4th down to end that game. And Nick Collins had a pick 6 and CM3 forced a key fumble.
Yes. Aaron Rodgers was all world in 3 of those 4 games. But guys on defense made plays. Tramon, Shields, Matthews, Raji, Collins.
The rules are set up for the offenses to gain yards. The QBs for many teams are too good to stop all the time. The defense just can't give up easy plays - they have to make the offense work for it. More importantly, the defense has to make big plays themselves.
Dom's defensive philosophy was to make offenses execute long, multiplay drives to score. He figured that if it takes 12 plays to score that all he had to do was to win one of those 12 plays in a big way to "win" the drive. Get a big sack to set up third and 15. Get a pick 6.
The key was always not to give up huge chunks of yardage on blown coverages. That turns 12 play scoring drives into 5 play drives and there is much less that can go wrong for the offense.
Dom failed because they were constantly shooting themselves in the foot by blowing coverages and because the big plays on defense disappeared. Besides a couple of CM3 plays this year (Kizer interception in OT against Cleveland, forced fumble against the Bears to set up a 7 yard TD drive), who else made a game turning play on defense? Randall had the deflection interception against Dallas. Woodson and Collins seemed to have 3-4 of those types of plays every year. They've never replaced that Woodson and Collins big play ability on the back end of the defense.
MichiganPacker posted: Woodson and Collins seemed to have 3-4 of those types of plays every year. They've never replaced that Woodson and Collins big play ability on the back end of the defense.
That's a once in a generation combo. They also never replaced Tramon and Shields. They replaced Tramon with Shields but then nobody replaced Shields. That was a helluva backfield in 2010.
2010 defensive backfield was exceptional. But it was the same defensive backfield that gave up huge chunks of yards and couldn’t slow down Warner in 2009.
2010 team benefited from guys that all put above average years together at the same time. Jenkins. Pickett. CJ Wilson.
Then they had guys who came out of nowhere to make huge contributions at different times. Howard Green. Bush. Zombo.
Biggest difference IMO in 2010 was the difference in play on defense when Bishop stepped in for an injured Nick Barnett.
Crazy year.
So if MM knew D has to be better than O why did Dom hang on so long??? 
The 34 depends on consistent pressure from OLBs and unpredictable places on a regular basis. And scheme matters. They couldn't get to Warner in 09 in time to pressure him and I honestly don't recall what happened in early 2011. I know Jenkins was gone, Woodson started showing signs of decline. Green and Pickett were another year past 30. Who knows, could have been some hangover in there too. All in stark contrast to the offense that went nuclear.
DH13 posted:The 34 depends on consistent pressure from OLBs and unpredictable places on a regular basis. And scheme matters. They couldn't get to Warner in 09 in time to pressure him and I honestly don't recall what happened in early 2011. I know Jenkins was gone, Woodson started showing signs of decline. Green and Pickett were another year past 30. Who knows, could have been some hangover in there too. All in stark contrast to the offense that went nuclear.
Nick Collins got hurt. That changed everything.
ChilliJon posted:2010 defensive backfield was exceptional. But it was the same defensive backfield that gave up huge chunks of yards and couldn’t slow down Warner in 2009.
2010 team benefited from guys that all put above average years together at the same time. Jenkins. Pickett. CJ Wilson.
Then they had guys who came out of nowhere to make huge contributions at different times. Howard Green. Bush. Zombo.
Biggest difference IMO in 2010 was the difference in play on defense when Bishop stepped in for an injured Nick Barnett.
Crazy year.
I think adding Shields as an UDFA was the difference between 2009 and 2010. In retrospect, he was a guy that should have been drafted in the first round that somehow was an UDFA. It gave them the one thing they really lacked, which was a guy that could run with (or better than) anyone. He wasn't a good tackler and he would make mistakes in zone coverage early in his career, but guys that run a sub 4.3 make a huge difference.
The one negative aspect of this is that it solidified TTs strategy of thinking he could win by mainly developing UDFAs (Tramon Williams was a street free agent who was never drafted either).
Michiganpacker,
Awesome post - thanks.
Source tells @SportingNews that @Packers safeties coach Darren Perry is front runner to become Green Bay's new defensive coordinator. Perry interviews for the job Saturday.
— Alex Marvez (@alexmarvez) January 5, 2018
If Perry cannot get better play out of HHCD, then no, he's not good DC material.
I remember when it was a lock that Paul Hackett would be the new OC in 05 and Mike Nolan would be DC in 09.
michiganjoe posted:Source tells @SportingNews that @Packers safeties coach Darren Perry is front runner to become Green Bay's new defensive coordinator. Perry interviews for the job Saturday.
— Alex Marvez (@alexmarvez) January 5, 2018
Wow!! If true I’ve never seen a team make so many changes and remain status quo
MichiganPacker posted:DH13 posted:The 34 depends on consistent pressure from OLBs and unpredictable places on a regular basis. And scheme matters. They couldn't get to Warner in 09 in time to pressure him and I honestly don't recall what happened in early 2011. I know Jenkins was gone, Woodson started showing signs of decline. Green and Pickett were another year past 30. Who knows, could have been some hangover in there too. All in stark contrast to the offense that went nuclear.
Nick Collins got hurt. That changed everything.
The defense was bad from the start. Collins played the first two games and got hurt. Tramon had a bad shoulder all year, and there was a major issue with the pass rush all year long after Cullen Jenkins left. Woodson was also noticeably slower from the beginning, which is why he was eventually moved to safety in 2012.
The defense from 2011 looked almost identical to 2017's, except in 2011 we got a LOT of turnovers. Everybody said that it was due to playing prevent with large leads. I think one of Ted's biggest mistakes was letting Nick Barnett leave instead of AJ Hawk. It seemed like every position regressed from the year before.
MichiganPacker posted:DH13 posted:The 34 depends on consistent pressure from OLBs and unpredictable places on a regular basis. And scheme matters. They couldn't get to Warner in 09 in time to pressure him and I honestly don't recall what happened in early 2011. I know Jenkins was gone, Woodson started showing signs of decline. Green and Pickett were another year past 30. Who knows, could have been some hangover in there too. All in stark contrast to the offense that went nuclear.
Nick Collins got hurt. That changed everything.
No, I said early 2011. Pre-Collins IR when they already started showing vulnerability in pass defense.
Thanks for filling in some holes, PHIL. I remember those things now.
DH13 posted:MichiganPacker posted:DH13 posted:The 34 depends on consistent pressure from OLBs and unpredictable places on a regular basis. And scheme matters. They couldn't get to Warner in 09 in time to pressure him and I honestly don't recall what happened in early 2011. I know Jenkins was gone, Woodson started showing signs of decline. Green and Pickett were another year past 30. Who knows, could have been some hangover in there too. All in stark contrast to the offense that went nuclear.
Nick Collins got hurt. That changed everything.
No, I said early 2011. Pre-Collins IR when they already started showing vulnerability in pass defense.
Thanks for filling in some holes, PHIL. I remember those things now.
Collins only played 1 game before getting hurt in the second. The defense gave up a lot of yards in the first game to the Saints, but the Saints had one of the most prolific offenses in history that year on their way to being 13-3. Brees threw for 5300 yards and 46 TDs. I don't think you can make a big conclusion out of one game with Collins that they gave up yardage in. The Saints put up big numbers on everyone that season.
PHIL and you make good points about Jenkins leaving and Tramon being hurt. I'd forgotten about the latter.
Who should we get? Someone who can solve our execution issues and if the same execution issues keep popping up, then put someone in the game who can execute. That's why I don't think we should promote from within, one or multiple positions coaches were having execution issues with their groups. Based on how our pass D fared, it's either Perry or Whitt or more likely both.
“Players weren’t executing what they were being told, and I feel like maybe [that] wasn’t being enforced enough, that we were still allowing guys on the field that wasn’t getting the job done,” Randall said, via the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.
Unless these guys have clear new way of reinterpreting Dom's D, I don't see how anything is going to improve with a Ball/Perry/Whitt combo. It would be rearranging deck chairs.
The #Packers are seeking to interview #Lions defensive coordinator Teryl Austin for their vacant DC job, source said. They also will interview secondary coach Darren Perry, an internal candidate.
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) January 5, 2018
I would really like Teryl Austin in Green Bay --- A LOT!
