Packers' 2016 Offseason Notes

I'd only keep Quarless and Goode, and either Perry or Neal (whoever is best value).  Tolzien is replaced by Hundley.  Kuhn replaced by Rip.  Starks, Jones and Raji are all welcome back at the right price but can be replaced by younger, cheaper guys.  Barclay and Mulumba have had enough time to show they belong and haven't.  And I'm hesitant to even let Richardson back on the field with his second neck injury.  

Happy NFL Free Agency Day!!!!  Or as Wisconsin calls it.....Wednesday.   

EDIT: Forgot Heyward........he'll get more than Davon House and his replacements have been drafted.  

I don't want Q back. He's hit his ceiling, and it ain't high enough.

Goode is injured and they have another long snapper on the roster.James Jones can check the market and come back cheap if the need him

Bob's sources are always quotable

Several executives in personnel for NFL teams were asked by the Journal Sentinel's Bob McGinn in the last week to evaluate the Green Bay Packers' unrestricted free agents, restricted free agents and released players. Free agency officially opened at 3 p.m. Wednesday. [story at link]  

http://www.jsonline.com/sports...451z1-371588211.html

There is a scout out there that thinks someone might want Starks as a #1?

And I thought patty was full of ****

El-Ka-Bong posted:

There is a scout out there that thinks someone might want Starks as a #1?

And I thought patty was full of ****

He was a #1 last year for a while

Mulumba not tendered a contract.  Pretty disappointing.  There were areas of the football team where the Packers could have used help and instead of grabbing a different player they elected to keep Mulumba when he was contributing nothing and had no future with the team.  Thompson did a poor job of turning over the bottom of the roster last year.

Pikes Peak posted:

He was a #1 last year for a while

But no one wanted him to be the #1

He is a very useful #2 back.  Anyone who thinks different probably works in the front office of the Browns.  

Its not lost on me that #2 and "Browns front office" are mentioned together. "Browns front office" is replacing "I'm taking the Browns to the Super Bowl effective immediately. 

No, I'm not drinking.    

El-Ka-Bong posted:

Pikes Peak posted:

He was a #1 last year for a while

But no one wanted him to be the #1

He is a very useful #2 back.  Anyone who thinks different probably works in the front office of the Browns.  

I like Starks and want him back at the right price.

But he is not a #1 running back and never has been one. The fact he "was a #1 last year for a while" says more about Eddie Lacy's lack of commitment (and girth) than it does about Starks' abilities.

Free agency just started, so I recognize that this rant may be a bit premature this year.  But after watching the Broncos' recent championship run, it got me again thinking about Thompson's approach (vs. those of other GMs, like Elway) to free agency.  

I can appreciate Thompson's focus on and success in the draft, but championship teams also do well in free agency. TT's refusal to consistently utilize free agency is an issue, and it has probably cost us another championship or two. His teams have always had a top-10 all-time QB under center for 10+ years, and we only have one trip to the Super Bowl and one Lombardi to show for it.  A HOF QB alone can usually get you to the playoffs, but complete teams win Super Bowls.  I hope this franchise doesn't waste the remaining years of Rodgers' career simply settling for consistently being competitive.  I want Rodgers to retire with another ring or two.  Let's take full advantage of his time here.  

Draft and Patch.  I'm all for most player acquisition coming from the draft but when holes develop sometimes a patch through FA is worth looking at.  Sometimes, to me, means more than once every 6 or 7 years.  My ideal strategy would look more like GB's than Denver's, but it would be somewhere in the middle between the two.

I like that.....Draft and Patch.  I've been pretty supportive over the years of TT's draft and develop approach but the glaring holes at both ILB spots and TE (since Finley) have become extremely frustrating so I've changed my tune.  I get TT passing on Fleener and Allen at TE b/c they got ridiculous deals, but hard seeing Trevathan and L Green sign for pretty reasonable contracts.  

Lambeau Lobo posted:

Free agency just started, so I recognize that this rant may be a bit premature this year.  But after watching the Broncos' recent championship run, it got me again thinking about Thompson's approach (vs. those of other GMs, like Elway) to free agency.  

We don't play in the AFC.

Boris posted:

Lambeau Lobo posted:

Free agency just started, so I recognize that this rant may be a bit premature this year.  But after watching the Broncos' recent championship run, it got me again thinking about Thompson's approach (vs. those of other GMs, like Elway) to free agency.  

We don't play in the AFC.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your point.  You can look across the league to identify franchises in both conferences that do a fine job of utilizing the draft, trades, and free agency to remain competitive.  I hate to say it, but Seattle is another example.  

Can you name a recent Super Bowl team that did not have a couple key players that were acquired via free agency?   

5 years.  It's only been 5 years since the Packers last won the Super Bowl.  The Packers aren't going to win it all every year.  They just aren't.  I've slowly come to terms with that, as much as it sucks.  Just adding free agents is not going to change that.

I bet Carolina had free agents on their team, and they lost the Super Bowl.

I bet Seattle had free agents, and they lost the Super Bowl.

I bet Denver had free agents, and they lost the Super Bowl.

I bet San Francisco had free agents, and they lost the Super Bowl.

I bet New England had free agents, and they lost the Super Bowl.

I bet Pittsburgh had free agents, and they lost the Super Bowl.

I bet Indianapolis had free agents, and they lost the Super Bowl.

.................................................

CUPackFan posted:

I like that.....Draft and Patch.  

I stole it from someone here, but I forget who to give credit too.  

I dropped it a couple months ago but I stole it from Ketchman.  He sees NE as being the best at it.

ChilliJon posted:

Its not lost on me that #2 and "Browns front office" are mentioned together. "Browns front office" is replacing "I'm taking the Browns to the Super Bowl effective immediately. 

No, I'm not drinking.    

Did you mean you were dropping the Browns off at the Super Bowl?

You just proved part of my point, Maynard.  Like I said, history shows us that Super Bowl teams are successful in free agency.  Teams that make it that far have utilized a combination of the draft and free agency (with the occasional trade).  

I like and respect Ted Thompson.  He has kept us generally competitive over his entire tenure.  I appreciate that.  We're a spoiled fan base.  But when you have an all-time QB like Rodgers, you have a window of opportunity to win championships.  After 2010, I was convinced that we were going to add another championship or two, and put ourselves in the "dynasty" conversation.  With a QB like Rodgers, that was certainly possible.  But we haven't made it back to the Super Bowl yet.  I'm concerned that we're wasting this opportunity by failing to supplement our home-grown talent with free agents.  Given TT's record in free agency, it's tough to argue with that.  And I don't understand it, because when he makes a splash in free agency, it frequently works out (see, e.g., Woodson, Pickett, Peppers, etc.).  He knows how to evaluate talent.  

Lambeau - my question to you is this and its not meant with any ill regard or intent.  So yes the Broncos won the Super Bowl but now are without a QB or "the man" and are missing 2 key members of their D.  Would you rather be a flash and in the pan and win one every 10-15 years or be in the mix constantly?  yeah its been a 5 years since we won but we've also been in the playoffs with a chance each of those 5 years, can't be said about Denver.

Edit -  I'd love to see an instant upgrade at ILB and TE too but not at a risk to future.

Denver has absolutely been competitive the past five years.  They made two Super Bowls in Manning's 4-year run, made the playoffs his entire four years, and made the divisional round the year before Manning joined the team (that was Tebow's run).  Not exactly a flash in the pan.  

I'm not saying TT should adopt Elway's approach, but with the Broncos' recent Super Bowl, it is now fair to compare the two.  Elway saw a window of opportunity with a HOF QB, and he went for it.  And with two Super Bowl appearances and one ring in four years, I think we can say he was successful.

As someone else suggested, I think the ideal approach would be one that both adopts TT's commitment to the draft and utilizes some of Elway's willingness to make moves in free agency (with the draft being emphasized a bit more).  Honestly, I think John Schneider takes that type of approach in Seattle.     

You've just answered your own question. 

If TT knows how to evaluate talent & he hasn't signed any of these "name" free agents, what does that tell you?

While we didn't make it TO the super bowl, we've been damn close. The Cardinals were all out to beat us minus our top 4 WR's. The Seahawks beat us (& we all know they shouldn't have) with Rodgers at 50% of his legs.

I'm not worried about the direction of this franchise one iota with TT at the controls

the great draft and free agency equalizer : injuries

You could dupe this thread every year and just flip out the names.

Lambeau Lobo posted:

Denver has absolutely been competitive the past five years.  They made two Super Bowls in Manning's 4-year run, made the playoffs his entire four years, and made the divisional round the year before Manning joined the team (that was Tebow's run).  Not exactly a flash in the pan.  

I'm not saying TT should adopt Elway's approach, but with the Broncos' recent Super Bowl, it is now fair to compare the two.  Elway saw a window of opportunity with a HOF QB, and he went for it.  And with two Super Bowl appearances and one ring in four years, I think we can say he was successful.

As someone else suggested, I think the ideal approach would be one that both adopts TT's commitment to the draft and utilizes some of Elway's willingness to make moves in free agency (with the draft being emphasized a bit more).  Honestly, I think John Schneider takes that type of approach in Seattle.     

It can't be overstated enough times.

Playing in a Super Bowl is greatly aided by playing in the AFC. 

Honestly, New England has to find a way to get by Denver. Denver has to find a way to get by New England. Once in a while Pittsburgh makes a passing appearance. Given the QB news in Denver. Is there any way possible New England does not make it to Super Bowl 51? 

There have been plenty of quality free agents out there that could have helped us win.  TT hasn't been very active in free agency because, with a few exceptions, it is not part of his model.  But is it possible that his model could be slightly improved?  

Ask yourself this: has TT done everything in his power to field the best possible team?  Can you honestly say that TT has done a good job utilizing free agency?  

I would be surprised if any Packer fan answered "yes" to those questions.  But if that is the case, I would be interested in their takes on the TE and ILB positions over the past few years.  

just for kicks, tell me the TE/s and ILB/s he should have signed in FA?

Lambeau Lobo posted:

 I would be surprised if any Packer fan answered "yes" to those questions.  But if that is the case, I would be interested in their takes on the TE and ILB positions over the past few years.  

There would be several on here that would answer 'yes.'

Ok, 1 for 2 in super bowls in the last 4 years, point being how many they going to play in for the next 5 without a QB and 2 key cogs on defense.  Say the Pack makes it to the superbowl this year and wins, that 2 for 2 in 6 years plus the future still is bright as hell the team in not stuck in cap hell.

ChilliJon posted:

It can't be overstated enough times.

Playing in a Super Bowl is greatly aided by playing in the AFC. 

Honestly, New England has to find a way to get by Denver. Denver has to find a way to get by New England. Once in a while Pittsburgh makes a passing appearance. Given the QB news in Denver. Is there any way possible New England does not make it to Super Bowl 51? 

I'll give it some more thought, but I'm not sure I would agree with that.  You think we would have been better off playing against Brady, Manning, and Big Ben in the playoffs all of these years?  You really think that's an easier road?  

Sure, the bottom half of the NFC's playoff teams may be consistently better than the AFC's.  But those teams consistently make a run because they have all-time great, HOF QBs under center.  And the Ravens have fielded strong teams over the years too.  

The 2012 Niners destroyed us.  I'll tip my cap to them.  But all things considered, we could have won the other playoff losses that we've had in the MM-TT era.  That's what makes those losses so painful - we were right there, a play or two away.  Could a minor upgrade here or there have been the difference?  When you consider how close we were to winning, I think it's possible.  

Tdog posted:

just for kicks, tell me the TE/s and ILB/s he should have signed in FA?

A complete list would take some time and research.  I'll try to get to it at some point.  I can tell you that I thought contracts given to Green and Trevathan yesterday were reasonable.  

But just to be clear, are you suggesting that there haven't been any reasonable options at those positions over the past few years that could have helped us?     

Are there any horses left in the stable?

C'mon Tdog, You know Gronk / Olsen & Kuechly / CJ Mosley were available last year.

We don't participate in stoooopid season

Well Danny Trevathan for one.  I just read on Twitter that he was on the NFL network saying that he wanted the Packers to make a run at him but TT didn't even try to sign him.  

And Lambeau Lobo, quit while you're ahead.  Any discussion of TT's lack of approach to free agency quickly turns into "please provide a list of who TT could have signed that would have guaranteed a championship".  It's a pointless argument.  Just know you aren't the only one that is frustrated by it.  

Wish he would have pursued him, but keep in mind Trevathan was a 6th round pick so it's not like good LBs are impossible to find. If they aren't going to bring in an FA, gotta do a better job drafting developing. In the past when faced with glaring weaknesses that have proven can't be covered up with what he has, TT has invested highly in the position (Safety, OT, OLB, etc.). Won't be surprised to finally see an answer at ILB taken this draft.

SO because Denver used some FA's to make it to & win the Super Bowl, now they're the "model franchise" to win a Championship?!?!

Please.....

What have we had? 2 losing seasons in almost 25 years?

Yeah I'll take that record of CONSISTENTLY being in the conversation EVERY SINGLE YEAR for the Lombardi Trophy.

There's a reason those Denver players are all jumping ship. I'll be shocked if they make the playoffs this year.

Glad TT spent that 5th rounder in 2012 on Terrell Manning instead of Trevathan.

Tdog posted:

just for kicks, tell me the TE/s and ILB/s he should have signed in FA?

Any of these this year would have been an upgrade at TE:

www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2016/03/03/packers-should-seek-tight-end-market/8212004

EDIT: the link is expired but it listed Ladarius Green, Martellus Bennett, Vernon Davis, Dwayne Allen and Coby Fleener.