I, too, am puzzled by Moss's vaunted reputation.
ChilliJon posted:Early picks handed over to Whitt have worked out well.
Early picks handed over to Moss and Trgovac haven't.
I'd be fine if Moss and Trgovac were sent somewhere else.
Good picks with bad coaching? Or bad picks with bad coaching?
DH13 posted:Giants also had a Q and a couple WRs that caught fire in the post season. DEN didn't even have that.
Good point. But in one case, that was because the Packers defensive coaching staff refused to adjust their bump and run coverage to some type of zone and Eli just kept throwing back shoulder to Plexico Burress (11 catches in 13 targets for 151 yards). The Giants had 24 first downs and Burress had 9 of them on catches and another one on an Al Harris penalty. At least 4 or 5 of these were conversions on 3rd and mid- to long-distance.
For all the justifiable complaints about Favre serving up an OT interception, Bush failing to fall on a fumble, etc., that was a coaching mistake of epic proportions.
Every time I think of that game, after I cool back down from being pissed off, I'm always reminded of a middle-school baseball game....
We had a pretty good game going, like 2-2 going into the 5th inning, and our pitcher just lost his mojo. All of a sudden, the other guys are knocking the cover off it; screaming line drives into the outfield and a couple of deep home runs.
He was done, and everybody knew it...except for coach, I guess. It literally got so bad the parents went silent, except for the audible groan with every hit.
Needless to say, the game was out of hand in no time, yet coach just would not make a change. So the kid finally calls time out, and takes himself out of the game. No relief pitcher ready, no nothing, just walked off the mound to the bench.
When we gathered at the bench after the game, this kid is bawling his eyes out, and coach is trying to comfort him with the usual "shake it off/keep your chin up" stuff, and the kid asks him how could he not see there was a problem that everybody else in the park was seeing.
Well, that's what I want to ask the coaches when I see crap like that. Do something, fer crissakes; don't let the guy just flounder over and over on seemingly every play! 
Yup - when "it" ain't working, at least change the strategy. If that don't work, change the personnel. Usually, strategy and personnel go hand in hand. At some point you have to do what your players do best.
ChilliJon posted:Early picks handed over to Whitt have worked out well.
Early picks handed over to Moss and Trgovac haven't.
I'd be fine if Moss and Trgovac were sent somewhere else.
Trgovac probably did the best job of any of the assistant coaches last year. When adding up McGinn's weekly ratings and averaging them out, the defensive line scored higher than any other position group on offense or defense. That is pretty amazing when considering what he had to work with. Began the season with Datone Jones suspended and by the end of the season the staff decided he was more of a linebacker than a defensive lineman. Letroy Guion suspended to begin the season. Key reserve Josh Boyd went down early. Starting nose tackle B.J. Raji was only healthy for about 1/2 the season. Had Bruce Gaston on the 53 man roster to begin the season then put him on the practice squad and then lost him to the Bears. By the end of the season the team only had 4 defensive lineman. Mike Daniels was the only really good player from start to finish in this unit. Mike Pennel was the other player in this mix, still a very raw developing player who might be a best fit on the nose but ended up playing end. Pretty remarkable that Trgovac got what he got out of this unit considering the revolving cast of players and how shorthanded they were for a good chunk of the season.
Biggest problem with the defensive line is that Thompson has not done a very good job stocking this position. Two of his highest defensive line draft picks have ended up at linebacker because they didn't fit on the line in this defense, and I haven't noticed other teams making players out of Jerel Worthy and Khyri Thornton. Considering all those guys were high draft picks I will just assume that Trgovac gave his approval, so if you want to assign him his share of the blame for those picks then I'm with you on that.
Boris posted:Desmond Bishop in 2010.....
That's all I have to say
Wasn't even that good, all-around. He was a one-dimensional thumper.
ChilliJon posted:Early picks handed over to Whitt have worked out well.
Early picks handed over to Moss and Trgovac haven't.
I'd be fine if Moss and Trgovac were sent somewhere else.
To be fair, has Moss ever had a high pick to work with at ILB (depending on where you think Hawk was drafted for)?
Abdul Hodge, I guess, but he wasn't exactly an athletic specimen.
PackerJoe posted:Datone Jones Letroy Guion reserve Josh Boyd B.J. Raji Bruce Gaston Mike Daniels Mike Pennel
Trying to figure out where these guys came from that Trgo worked with?
Biggest problem with the defensive line is that Thompson has not done a very good job stocking this position.
About this time last year they signed Kuhn. Any word yet on whether he's coming back?
YATittle posted:About this time last year they signed Kuhn. Any word yet on whether he's coming back?
Who gives a RIP..................................KOWSKI
I vote for 15 first round picks. They should be available for the right monetary value. I wonder how much that would be. And I wonder what the cost of the first round busts would be.
@WesHod: Former #Broncos LB Lerentee McCray (@Liiive_55) says he's signed w/ the #Packers. Wasn't tendered by DEN, so won't count toward compensatory.
More here. http://www.denverpost.com/bron...ns-green-bay-packers
McCray, who is 6-foot-2 and weighed 248 pounds coming out of college, spent the first three seasons of his career in Denver and contributed primarily on special teams. The Broncos did not offer McCray a restricted free agent tender, the lowest of which is $1.671 million, and he was free to sign with any team in the league.
Because McCray was effectively released by the Broncos, he does not count toward the compensatory draft pick formular for next season. Like tight end Jared Cook, he classifies as a "street" free agent.
McCray originally signed with the Broncos as an undrafted free agent out of Florida, where he played in 42 games (17 starts). As a senior in 2012, McCray recorded 25 tackles, three sacks, one interception and one forced fumble.
He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.8 seconds coming out of college and measured in with 33 3/8-inch arms and 10-inch hands.
After missing all of his rookie season with an ankle injury, McCray settled in as a reserve outside linebacker and core special teamer in Denver. He played 118 defensive snaps (10.8%) and 200 special teams snaps in 2014, appearing in 13 games, and the ratio was similar in 2015 when he earned 121 defensive snaps (11.2%) and 234 snaps on special teams over the course of 11 games.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/376115471.html
ARod hanging Cobb out to dry. Ouch !!
Mostly a Special Teamer, but also stuck behind some great depth at OLB in Denver.
@WesHod: Lerentee McCray will wear No. 55 for #Packers. Also, rookie QB Ryan Williams is wearing No. 9 FWIW. Still no number for TE Jared Cook.
Haven't issued 89 yet. Maybe waiting until preseason is over...
ROTTT = No losing comp picks
Signing street guys and your own will not satisfy the masses. When will Thompson learn?
89....Chmuras old number. 
McCray signing is pretty intriguing. And I sense they brought him in to be more then a camp body.
You have to wonder if this is the end of the Mike Neal era in GB.
Neal won't be back unless he signs a bargain basement one year deal. $2.5 million.
Tightwad Ted strikes again. From JSO:
Green Bay - Don Barclay and Lerentee McCray needed jobs and Green Bay Packers general manager Ted Thompson was more than happy to hire them.
Paying them? That's another matter.
Thompson used a grand total of $525,000 in salary cap space to add the pair this week.
According to a source with access to NFLPA salary data, Barclay, the fifth-year unrestricted free agent, accepted a one-year, $700,000 deal that included a $25,000 signing bonus. To protect the Packers against an injury, the deal features a split salary of $405,000, which means if Barclay lands on injured reserve the his weekly salary the rest of the year would be calculated at the $405,000 per year rate.
Barclay missed all of the 2014 season with a torn ACL and did not regain the form he had shown in his first two seasons.
McCray, who was a street free agent, received a one-year, $800,000 deal that included a signing bonus of $50,000 and a workout bonus of $75,000. His base salary is the league minimum of $675,000.
The $800,000 is roughly half of the $1.671 million it would have cost Denver to retain him on a restricted free agent contract. The Broncos' decision not to make the offer turned the outside linebacker into a free agent.
Together, Barclay and McCray account for $1.5 million cap charges, but because only the top 51 players count against the salary cap in the off-season, two players with cap numbers totaling $975,000 were bumped off.
The Packers are now $10.65 million under the cap.
This is why these signings don't count
Jeezus....TT pocketing more money again? Disgusting!
Braclay is a camp body who only makes the roster in the event of injury.
Don Barclay has made the roster the last 2 years.
I'd hardly call him a "camp body"
If he doesn't make the roster this year, that means our O-Line is in great shape!
Barclay will be a "camp body" if he can't do any better than last year. And I'll bet the Packers draft his replacement in anyway.
McCray now has to make the PACKER roster. That is not quarantined. We could call him a "camp body" until he shows something on a consistent basis.
Right now it is sort of like counting on a guy like Jim Del Gaizo to be an answer for our team - I (for one) remember how that went - unfortunately.
Barclay was a liability last year. If he was a rookie, fine, but he wasn't. Please check your expectations of Jordy if you are going to claim the injury from the previous season hampered him all year long.
He sucks. That's why he got the contract he did, not because TT used the ole Jedi mind trick on him.
Don bounces back and he provides valuable depth; he remains the turnstile that he was last year and Packers are only out the 25K workout bonus. Low-risk move from TT with practically no downside.
Barclay made Marshall Newhouse look like Anthony Munoz last season.
McGinn tries to pierce the Thompson curtain at 1265 regarding Ted's keeping Eliot, Gutekunst and Highsmith in the fold. Some parts are interesting. If true.
... In February, an NFL personnel director with years of experience was asked if he ever heard Wolf, Gutekunst or Highsmith express frustration about having their career paths stymied.
"A little bit," the executive said. "But nobody really complains about Ted. They like working for him. I think it's a good environment.
"Nobody's really trying to cut Ted's legs out. Alonzo would never do that. I don't think 'Gouty' would ever do that. Eliot is just waiting for his time."
He said Green Bay and Pittsburgh were the two NFL franchises in which complaints seldom were heard from employees.
How prevalent is infighting in NFL front offices?
"It goes on in 30 of the 32 organizations," the scout said. "You always have somebody that's trying to work the owner or the owner's son, or be buddies with the head coach and then the head coach can get the GM.
"Even though we're all grown men you almost have to have a baby sitter at times. It changes when guys start making a lot of money and egos get out of control." ...
Interesting article.
Eliot is young. He has to know, he's in line if/when TT retireS.
I really like the way the Packers handle their front office.
No surprise the Packers & Steelers don't have any issues like the other 30 teams.
Boris posted:Interesting article.
Eliot is young. He has to know, he's in line if/when TT retireS.
I really like the way the Packers handle their front office.
No surprise the Packers & Steelers don't have any issues like the other 30 teams.
Montana...Young...
Favre...Rodgers...?
Getting the hat trick is so hard to do in sports.
Can we do it with our GM's?
Wolf...Thompson...Wolf
A dynasty of quality for the ages?
We have a chance at inter-generational greatness.
Only 2 trophies in 25 years of greatness. Clearly we need to fire everyone and hire Belichick.
They can't have him
Meh, let him go if he gets the job. If you're that good at finding guys (which, to be fair, he kind of inherited the guys mentioned, rather than found himself, but whatever, he still had to retain them) then keep building your tree on your own merits.