@Boris posted:As long as Jaire (and maybe Stokes too?) Can shut down a couple WRs, the Pack should be in good shape.
The draft will be very telling in terms of what they think of Stokes and/or Valentine. For this defense to succeed, you need 2 outside corners you can trust ala Tramon and Shields.
@FLPACKER posted:Not at all that simple. In the run game DLineman have gap responsibilities that coincide with the LBers. If they just "rush the QB" they will lose gap control and get shredded, especially by cut backs.
I get that. But that was the main problem during Carolina and Giants game. There was no gap control and the QBs ran wild. It was like they were Colin Kappernick. Sometimes the people make the game more complicated than it is.
Exactly why it is harder to both keep gap control and rush the passer at the same time.... on pass plays the d-lineman don't have LBers to help them. four rushing d-lineman have 6 gaps to fill, tough assignment.
Yes they do. It's called blitzing.
Ammoe outsmarting the field again.
What can I say? Simplify the game. Do you think Reggie cared about gap control. Just get to the QB.
That isn't really fair to compare Reggie. It's a lot easier when you have God watching your other gap for you.
@GreenBayLA posted:I reread the first couple of pages when Joe Berry was first hired, and there was lots of enthusiasm for his talk of letting players play, creating pressure etc. But also questions about his prior lack of success as DC.
So for now I’m excited about HAFLEY and his aggressive approach. Curious to see how his 4-3 translates in GB. I’m ok giving up some big plays if we bring consistent pressure that creates stops and turnovers.
After his first game as DC, didn't AR gush, we got a defense or something like that? Went to hell pretty quick.
@D J posted:After his first game as DC, didn't AR gush, we got a defense or something like that? Went to hell pretty quick.
He has a history of being wrong?
I'm still waiting for a DC to be hired and at his first press conference says "I'm going to run my system, I don't care which players we have. My system is my system and it's rigid. They need to fit and if I don't get my guys, my system can't work. I'm not adapting to their strengths, they need to adapt to my system. And we're also not going to be aggressive. My system is a wait and see, passive defense. We want to sit back on our heels and let the offense dictate what we do. We're a read and react defense. And you better believe in the fourth quarter, when the game is on the line, I'll change from what worked all game and play soft zone and rush 3, maybe 4. I'm ok giving up TDs as long as i can take 3 minutes off the clock." Sounds stupid but the reality is, this is what so many DCs really are. Barry included.
If I was a head coach, I'd have one rule - whatever defense you play in the first 3 quarters, you play in the 4th. I'm so sick of the defense playing well enough to get a lead in the first 3 quarters, then change how they play in the 4th to "prevent" the comeback or prevent big plays despite the fact the defense hasn't give up any big plays yet. We saw this in Dallas and it's just not how you win long term. One more completed pass and we're looking at an onside kick to possibly decide the game. Play aggressive all game and build a lead but then shift and play soft, giving up TDs to bleed 3 minutes of clock. That is unacceptable. It worked out in the Dallas game but you can't tell me that was ok. I think that "let's just hang on" attitude that the defense had at the end of that game is who they are and it's why the defense folded against the 49ers at the end. It's just what they did under Barry.
Scheme is whatever. Most defenses run something pretty similar anyways so hard to see his "scheme" being revolutionary. I'm just hoping Hafely is bringing an attitude and playcalling that's not as soft as Barry's. Like make it ok to ask your defense to win a game. Make plays in the 4th quarter to put the dagger into an opponent.
@Pikes Peak posted:He has a history of being wrong?
YaTittle?
@Fedya posted:YaTittle?
Always
@CUPackFan posted:Scheme is whatever. Most defenses run something pretty similar anyways so hard to see his "scheme" being revolutionary. I'm just hoping Hafely is bringing an attitude and playcalling that's not as soft as Barry's. Like make it ok to ask your defense to win a game. Make plays in the 4th quarter to put the dagger into an opponent.
Scheme never really wins or loses anything. It's the players. Do they beat their guys?
The trick that any playcaller, O or D, has to pull off is knowing when which plays give his players the greatest chance of beating his guy. When the other guys have a good idea of what's coming, they will be in better position to beat their opponents. Some players can beat their man no matter what play is called. Those are the elite or blue chippers, which teams only have a few of. The rest can be aided by the play call setting them up for success, or failure.
This is where we hope Hafley can be more whole than Barry. In calling the right D for the right situation and by he and his staff instilling the right coaching on their techniques and attitude.
@ammo posted:What can I say? Simplify the game. Do you think Reggie cared about gap control. Just get to the QB.
In the playoff game where the Packers held Barry Sanders to -1 yards rushing, Reggie moved to DT and definitely cared about gap control.
Not only could Reggie get to the QB, he was a tremendous run defender as well.
“I’m waiting for a DC to say: we ‘re going to play soft and forgiving.”
- Andrew Brandt
@CUPackFan posted:Like make it ok to ask your defense to win a game. Make plays in the 4th quarter to put the dagger into an opponent.
That sounds great in a post on x4....and I don't disagree with it....however.....that's just not reality in today's game with the rules geared towards the offense.
In most cases now the best defense is a great offense keeping the opposing QB on the sidelines.
What I want out of a defense is turnovers and 3 and outs. I want the defense OFF the field. Period! Give the ball back to your offense and let em go.....because I have a hunch there are only a handful of teams in the NFL that can keep up with the Packers offensively.
Outscore everybody.....average 40 points a game....I'm not even close to joking.
That’s exactly it, Boris. When you have a good offense You want your D to get a turnover, get a 3 n out, or give up the score quickly.
Maximize the amount of possessions in the game and the let the offense win you the game.
With a high powered offense that could systematically move the ball down the field for touchdowns, my first 3 quarters of defense would be, let them score. Then, in the fourth, with their defense gassed from being on the field all game, I tighten up my defense and get a stop.
I'll take improving game mentality for starters.
No penalties on a 3rd down play that was otherwise stopped. Get off the damn field!
For damn sure, no PFs after a play (unless they have to defend a teammate). Be smart, walk away. Don't get penalties for late hits OOB.
No roughing calls on the opposing QB, or their punter, for that matter. Hit 'em, sack 'em, knock snot bubbles from 'em. Just be smart about it.
That would make a significant improvement to the defense, and gives something really solid to build on. Less time spent "correcting" penalties means more time for learning game and position responsibilities and becoming better players.
@MichiganPacker posted:In the playoff game where the Packers held Barry Sanders to -1 yards rushing, Reggie moved to DT and definitely cared about gap control.
Not only could Reggie get to the QB, he was a tremendous run defender as well.
And that's why he's a legend.
@Boris posted:That sounds great in a post on x4....and I don't disagree with it....however.....that's just not reality in today's game with the rules geared towards the offense.
In most cases now the best defense is a great offense keeping the opposing QB on the sidelines.
What I want out of a defense is turnovers and 3 and outs. I want the defense OFF the field. Period! Give the ball back to your offense and let em go.....because I have a hunch there are only a handful of teams in the NFL that can keep up with the Packers offensively.
Outscore everybody.....average 40 points a game....I'm not even close to joking.
Channeling 2011 when they scored 530 points, averaging 35 a game. Then ...
@DH13 posted:Guy, Guion, just a guy? Can't keep all these guys straight.
DH13 - your guy, Guy, is now available...
Here's ACME Packers with their take on the DE position heading into 2024
Packers need (4) guys to handle about 2000 snaps at DE and 3 of them are already on the roster in Preston Smith, Gary and Van Ness.
Need 1 more and Enagbare probably won't be ready till Thanksgiving
https://www.acmepackingcompany...-chart-preston-smith
Free Agent AJ Epenesa looks like he'd fit and with a projected market value of about $5M/ year - that's not too spendy. Dude is 6'5 and 275 with 4 yrs in the league and he played in a 4 - 3 front for McDermott in Beefalo
DFH
It would require a time machine.
@Satori posted:DH13 - your guy, Guy, is now available...
Patriots released DL Lawrence Guy.Guy totaled 38 tackles for the Patriots last season and has been a staple along their defensive line since joining the team in 2017. A two-time Walter Peyton Man of the Year nominee, Guy will be 34 at the start of next season but should still have a strong free-agent market. Per PFF, Guy generated just six pressures last season despite playing a normal allotment of snaps. He’ll likely be looking to join a contender ahead of next season.
guy considers himself an nfl sportspundit and can't even spell Walter's last name correctly. fail
3 years ago, sure on Guy. not any more
@CUPackFan posted:If I was a head coach, I'd have one rule - whatever defense you play in the first 3 quarters, you play in the 4th. I'm so sick of the defense playing well enough to get a lead in the first 3 quarters, then change how they play in the 4th to "prevent" the comeback or prevent big plays despite the fact the defense hasn't give up any big plays yet. We saw this in Dallas and it's just not how you win long term. One more completed pass and we're looking at an onside kick to possibly decide the game. Play aggressive all game and build a lead but then shift and play soft, giving up TDs to bleed 3 minutes of clock. That is unacceptable. It worked out in the Dallas game but you can't tell me that was ok. I think that "let's just hang on" attitude that the defense had at the end of that game is who they are and it's why the defense folded against the 49ers at the end. It's just what they did under Barry.
This right here is what we have been complaining about for a long long time with the Packers defense. They will play decent all game and then go in to this soft shell defense that has them playing prevent defense and chasing the offensive players. All I want out of the new DC is exactly what you said and that is get after them in the 4th quarter the same way you did in the first three quarters.
Under Contract: Rashan Gary, Preston Smith, Lukas Van Ness, Kingsley Enagbare, Brenton Cox Jr., Keshawn Banks, Arron Mosby, Deandre Johnson, Deslin Alexandre and Kenneth Odumegwu" (From Satori's post)
Liked what I saw from Banks, last preseason. He was able to create pressure and seemed to always be in the backfield. I'd like to see if Odumegwu steps up, this year. The really intriguing guy for me, is Brenton Cox, Jr. I remember him also pressuring the QB in the limited snaps he had in preseason. I hope he can step up, show the coaches something and make the 53. Otherwise, we may need to look at FA to find someone Gute thinks can fill the bill there. Epenesa might be that guy. He was terror in Iowa and was on many Packer fan's wish lists when he was in the draft. Enagbare would fit well, as we know, but as has been said, his injury means he won't be ready to come back until Thanksgiving, at the earliest, and that is barring any Bakh-like complications.
Isnt' Enagbare a bit undersized for DE?
@The Heckler posted:This right here is what we have been complaining about for a long long time with the Packers defense. They will play decent all game and then go in to this soft shell defense that has them playing prevent defense and chasing the offensive players. All I want out of the new DC is exactly what you said and that is get after them in the 4th quarter the same way you did in the first three quarters.
Fans are complaining ? I'm shocked ! 
Couple of things to consider here.
First off, each team has a bevy of reasonably bright coaches sitting up in the box and they're deciphering what the Packers defense is doing in each situation and trying to come up with a way to overcome it.
Sometimes that happens quickly, other times it takes 3+ quarters. Some of what we see is the other team finally found useful adjustments in the 4th quarter. Ergo, imploring your defense to do the exact same thing in Q4 as they did earlier may not be a winning strategy - it may in fact be playing into their hands.
Both sides make adjustments all game long in a 3 hour chess match. We want a DC who can think on his feet and is prepared to meet the new challenges as they arise (and has prepped an answer during the week.) Thinking on his feet was not Barry's forte, but the comments about Hafley suggest he's more than capable. We shall see
The other thing that happens ( and drives fans nuts) is that the DC is willing to trade off a bunch of dink passes for running out the clock. IF you have a 2 score lead and time is ticking...then forcing a long, clock-consuming drive is a good strategy because they won't have enough time left to complete their comeback.
And its a fair guess they will have a penalty, missed block, dropped pass etc so the more plays they have to run, the higher likelihood of a drive-killing fuck up
That's one reason they play a prevent style, giving up the short stuff - while eliminating the quick strike that can get you beat. That's a delicate balancing act and a talented DC knows when to run the clock and when to blitz and force the issue. ( Spags is a master)
So for a variety of reasons its not always smart football to stay precisely consistent all game long.
The 2023 Packers defense was certainly poor both in the 2nd half
(25th in points allowed) and in Q4 (20th) per the stats linked below and I'm hoping those will improve under new leadership & direction.
@DH13 posted:Isnt' Enagbare a bit undersized for DE?
I thought so too
But in the article from ACME they said the DCs who run this defense will use a slightly smaller & more bendy guy as part of their pass rushing arsenal.
It will be interesting to see what Hafley says at his opening Q&A session.
if Enagbare is undersized he plays bigger/stronger
really wish he hadn't blown the knee, knay
MLF and new DC Hafley are holding a press conference tomorrow (Feb 22) at 3:45pm EST, the first for Hafley in his new position.
