If you watched his presser postgame he was pretty frustrated and annoyed at some of the questions. We also know he doesn’t like anyone critiquing his decisions or plays.
Minnesota has looked really good of late so here’s hoping 12 carries that SUV sized chip on his shoulder into the matchup with the Queens. Not that they need any extra motivation but these are moments that I’m sure he relishes. Go out and play well and shut them up.
Use a high pick on a QB.
Rodgers to Cinnci, Burrow to the Pack. 
Welp, that's one way to put Rodgers with AJ Green
Then he can retire and un-retire with the Vikings!
"Matt LaFleur is going to revolutionize the Packers offense."
— Paul Hembekides (@PaulHembo) December 16, 2019
When Aaron Rodgers starts:
2019
23.6 PPG
37% drive score pct
36% 3rd down pct
2018
23.5 PPG
39% drive score pct
37% 3rd down pct
2017
24.4 PPG
38% drive score pct
42% 3rd down pct
Biggest difference this year: defense is better and they're winning the close games.
michiganjoe posted:"Matt LaFleur is going to revolutionize the Packers offense."
— Paul Hembekides (@PaulHembo) December 16, 2019
When Aaron Rodgers starts:
2019
23.6 PPG
37% drive score pct
36% 3rd down pct
2018
23.5 PPG
39% drive score pct
37% 3rd down pct
2017
24.4 PPG
38% drive score pct
42% 3rd down pctBiggest difference this year: defense is better and they're winning the close games.
I see what's being implied but way too early. Let's see it after 3 years.
Is Rodgers the QB in 3 years?
I think if AR wants to still be playing in three years yes I think he will be. But, that being said at some point they are going to have to get a successor in place.
In the near term I am sure that Gute is very much aware that he needs to get better receivers and fix the TE position to help AR out. I personally think if he gets that help he will step it up a lot.
Pakrz posted:YATittle posted:The pass to WhitewTer Jesus was elite too
It was a good pass that any NFL quarterback should make. Why are we so desperate to call 12 elite? He's not... and it shows each week. In fact, the next "elite" performance he has will be an anomaly on the season.
You obviously haven't seen half of the QB's in this league that actually can't make that throw on a regular basis, if ever. That includes the TD to Adams. But I hate to agree with the overall intent of this post even though I might.
As H5 said, he got no help from his WR/TE's yesterday and his physical skills don't look diminished. But it's some of the decisions he's made all this year and highlighted yesterday that starts to dull his shine. Is he not as dialed in? Has he lost some of his competitive edge? Is this the result of his saying "I finally don't have to put this team on my shoulders", so he doesn't even when he needs to? Hard to say, rather not speculate beyond those guesses.
I have to say it's going to be a really interesting game next week to see Cousins and Rodgers side by side. As much debate as has raged between GB and min fans over their QB's superiority, Cousins has been on an upward trend while you could say Rodgers has been downward (vs his career) or flat. Granted Cousins has legitimate WR's, we'll see a potentially illuminating comparison.
I think if they can win it all in the next 3 years, I could see him retiring on top ala Elway.
I love this new quantum state the Packers exist in for critics where Rodgers is no longer elite but also Matt LaFleur’s hot start as a head coach is because he has an elite quarterback.
— Erik the Red (@d34dliftdad) December 16, 2019
Grave Digger posted:I love this new quantum state the Packers exist in for critics where Rodgers is no longer elite but also Matt LaFleur’s hot start as a head coach is because he has an elite quarterback.
— Erik the Red (@d34dliftdad) December 16, 2019
Great perspective. The term "elite" is really one that the media loves to throw around but never can agree on what defines "elite". I think AR he will be playing in three years. But whether he's playing for the Packers, someone else, or not at all I believe LeFleur's system will have a long term effect on what the Packer's offense looks like in the future. This is only the first look we've had after a draft and free agency with MLF in place. More time needed to round out and balance the roster. I never had expectations that this would be complete turnaround in 1 season. Your hope is always that the QB's savvy and experience will offset any decline in physical skills. There are way too many factors in play right now to be drawing up conclusions.
DH13 posted:Pakrz posted:YATittle posted:The pass to WhitewTer Jesus was elite too
It was a good pass that any NFL quarterback should make. Why are we so desperate to call 12 elite? He's not... and it shows each week. In fact, the next "elite" performance he has will be an anomaly on the season.
You obviously haven't seen half of the QB's in this league that actually can't make that throw on a regular basis, if ever. That includes the TD to Adams. But I hate to agree with the overall intent of this post even though I might.
As H5 said, he got no help from his WR/TE's yesterday and his physical skills don't look diminished. But it's some of the decisions he's made all this year and highlighted yesterday that starts to dull his shine. Is he not as dialed in? Has he lost some of his competitive edge? Is this the result of his saying "I finally don't have to put this team on my shoulders", so he doesn't even when he needs to? Hard to say, rather not speculate beyond those guesses.
I have to say it's going to be a really interesting game next week to see Cousins and Rodgers side by side. As much debate as has raged between GB and min fans over their QB's superiority, Cousins has been on an upward trend while you could say Rodgers has been downward (vs his career) or flat. Granted Cousins has legitimate WR's, we'll see a potentially illuminating comparison.
I've seen pretty much every QB in the league. I know some of you guys adore Rodgers and want to hang on to what he once was though (No disrespect intended)... I'm just not willing to look past consistent mediocre play from this guy. He's been so freaking average that an outstanding performance out of him would be outside of the norm.
It took Packers fans years to realize #4 was no longer magical. It took Packers fans years to realize TT had lost it. It took Packers fans years to realize MM was way past his expiration date. There's little doubt that we will repeat this trend with Rodgers.
It is time to draft a QB that can be ready to takeover in a couple years.
I was sick last night watching Watt wreak havoc for the Steelers and recalling that everyone in the Packer draft room wanted Watt but senile TT had another plan....
If we keep betting on age and time to win, eventually we'll be right.
Tschmack posted:If you watched his presser postgame he was pretty frustrated and annoyed at some of the questions. We also know he doesn’t like anyone critiquing his decisions or plays.
Minnesota has looked really good of late so here’s hoping 12 carries that SUV sized chip on his shoulder into the matchup with the Queens. Not that they need any extra motivation but these are moments that I’m sure he relishes. Go out and play well and shut them up.
I think his comment relative to the first question was that he found it condescending. Pot meet kettle. AR certainly has been a gift to the Packers and an all time great on the field, there is absolutely no doubt. Yet, my reaction from having observed his comments and demeanor over the past decade or so is that he can be very smug and condescending as well and that he comes off as thinking he's always the smartest person in the room. He shouldn't be above having to answer to tough or critical questions from the same media that have chronicled him as one of the top QBs in NFL history.
He's just anxious to get to the Scotch.
So, the question sounded condescending to Rodgers. What exactly was the question? I could not hear it. I think it was from Demonski?
Pikes Peak posted:Rodgers to Cinnci, Burrow to the Pack.
What's the saying? Super Bowl for Burrow?
PackerPatrick posted:So, the question sounded condescending to Rodgers. What exactly was the question? I could not hear it. I think it was from Demonski?
From Bill Huber. He discusses it at about 5:25.
YATittle posted:I was sick last night watching Watt wreak havoc for the Steelers and recalling that everyone in the Packer draft room wanted Watt but senile TT had another plan....
This!
Henry posted:Pikes Peak posted:Rodgers to Cinnci, Burrow to the Pack.
What's the saying? Super Bowl for Burrow?
3, count 'em 3 HOF'ers in a row.
michiganjoe posted:PackerPatrick posted:So, the question sounded condescending to Rodgers. What exactly was the question? I could not hear it. I think it was from Demonski?
From Bill Huber. He discusses it at about 5:25.
Thanks.
Pakrz posted:Is Rodgers the QB in 3 years?
Yep.
Pakrz posted:I'm just not willing to look past consistent mediocre play from this guy. He's been so freaking average that an outstanding performance out of him would be outside of the norm.
Sorry man, but this is the epitome of entitlement from Packer fans. You're talking about a guy with a 100 QB rating over the whole season. Of QBs with over 100 attempts on the season Rodgers ranks:
You look at him objectively and he's not playing that bad and certainly not mediocre. He needs to clean some things up with some his throws, but it's hard to figure out whether his bad throws are just timing issues with receivers because of a new offense or just legit misses. Sometimes he will just miss, all QBs do, but his misses get magnified by the fact that he's AARON RODGERS. Guys like Brees, Garapolo, Carr, etc. have a low bad throw %, but their air yards per attempt are below 7 meaning they're not chucking the ball deep very often. It's easy to complete a lot of throws and build up stats when you're throwing it 5 or 6 yards per pass. Rodgers is 12th in air yards per attempt, he's averaging over 8 yards per attempt. You're chucking it further more often you're going to miss more often. Overall though he's playing strong football and is a key reason we're 11-3. Again there's lots to clean up, but saying he's average or mediocre is way off. He's different than he used to be, he's not MVP 2011 Rodgers, but 2019 Rodgers is playing a smarter brand of football with limited mistakes. He looks worse in comparison to young guns taking over like Mahomes, Jackson, Watson, etc., but overall he's fine.
Aaron Rodgers is an average to good NFL quarterback. I suspect you're going to be in the group that takes a few years to come to grips with that. I get it... dude was amazing at one point in his career and it's tough to see that decline.
Pakrz posted:Aaron Rodgers is an average to good NFL quarterback. I suspect you're going to be in the group that takes a few years to come to grips with that. I get it... dude was amazing at one point in his career and it's tough to see that decline.
And likely to deteriorate next season as well.
They needed to draft their future QB a year or two ago. They can no longer ignore that age catches up to even the best and that the serious injuries likely accelerated that fact.
PackerHawk posted:Pakrz posted:Is Rodgers the QB in 3 years?
Yep.
Seriously, he better not be.
RochNyFan posted:Tschmack posted:If you watched his presser postgame he was pretty frustrated and annoyed at some of the questions. We also know he doesn’t like anyone critiquing his decisions or plays.
Minnesota has looked really good of late so here’s hoping 12 carries that SUV sized chip on his shoulder into the matchup with the Queens. Not that they need any extra motivation but these are moments that I’m sure he relishes. Go out and play well and shut them up.
I think his comment relative to the first question was that he found it condescending. Pot meet kettle. AR certainly has been a gift to the Packers and an all time great on the field, there is absolutely no doubt. Yet, my reaction from having observed his comments and demeanor over the past decade or so is that he can be very smug and condescending as well and that he comes off as thinking he's always the smartest person in the room. He shouldn't be above having to answer to tough or critical questions from the same media that have chronicled him as one of the top QBs in NFL history.
But I'm sure he can't wait to help out his successor.
GD:
- Attempts: 9th
- Compl %: 22nd
- TDs: 10th
- INTs: 1st
- Rating: 9th
- Throw Aways: 2nd most
- On Target Throw %: 11th
- Bad Throw %: 23rd
Discarding throw aways - (9+22+10+9+11+23)/6 = 14
Numbers look good to average to me.
Though I think he's better than that because of what he has to throw to.
Yeah, those stats don't seem to support "elite" in any way, or even "very good", not sure why they were posted. LOL. I still think AR is still better than average with elite moments.
That 5 year run from 2009-2014 was about as good as you will ever see from a QB. His performance since then has slipped a bit but it is him or the talent around him? I’d say both.
He’s still a top 10-12 QB but back then he was top 3.
Who is better than him now? Mahomes, Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Brees, Watson, Wentz, Brady. Who’s comparable? Jimmy G, Stafford, Ryan, Tannehill, Cousins, and maybe Prescott.
Are we spoiled? Probably. But instead of getting pissy about the feedback how about just playing a little better? Or be a bit humble and resilient?
phaedrus posted:GD:
- Attempts: 9th
- Compl %: 22nd
- TDs: 10th
- INTs: 1st
- Rating: 9th
- Throw Aways: 2nd most
- On Target Throw %: 11th
- Bad Throw %: 23rd
Discarding throw aways - (9+22+10+9+11+23)/6 = 14
Numbers look good to average to me.
Though I think he's better than that because of what he has to throw to.
That’s not how that works. Passer rating is already a collection of passing stats and he’s top 10 in that category. A new group of QBs has supplanted Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. as the “elite”, but that group supplanted Brady long ago and he has still been winning SBs. Rodgers has been very good, and really we need him to be good enough.
Tschmack posted:Who is better than him now? Mahomes, Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Brees, Watson, Wentz, Brady. Who’s comparable? Jimmy G, Stafford, Ryan, Tannehill, Cousins, and maybe Prescott.
I definitely agree with you on Mahomes, Wilson, and Jackson looking like they are in a tier above Rodgers but not so sure about the rest.
Brees might be a half notch better but even his team found a way to win nearly every game without him which to me indicates he's got a better surrounding cast than Rodgers does. I don't think Watson and Wentz are better from when I've seen them this year though they are young and have upside to surpass Rodgers. Brady historically is better than Rodgers, not sure he is though right now at age 42.
The Saints have Taysom Hill, and that's made all the difference.
Tschmack posted:That 5 year run from 2009-2014 was about as good as you will ever see from a QB. His performance since then has slipped a bit but it is him or the talent around him? I’d say both.
He’s still a top 10-12 QB but back then he was top 3.
Who is better than him now? Mahomes, Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Brees, Watson, Wentz, Brady. Who’s comparable? Jimmy G, Stafford, Ryan, Tannehill, Cousins, and maybe Prescott.
Are we spoiled? Probably. But instead of getting pissy about the feedback how about just playing a little better? Or be a bit humble and resilient?
Right now Wentz is NOT better than Rodgers. And you lose all credibility with your comparable list. Not a single one of them is even in the same discussion with Rodgers. Jesus Christ, Tannehill????
It does sound ridiculous, doesn't it? Ryan fucking Tannehill???
Except that Ryan Tannehil has a QBR of 114.6 and a completion percentage of 71.5. This isn't the first place I've seen/read a list that puts Ryan Tannehill over Aaron Rodgers.
And for the love of God, don't look at Kirk Cousins' numbers unless you're sitting down, because he's better than Aaron Rodgers in damn near every category. Before anybody goes nuts, I'm fully aware of the receiving weapons in MN versus GB. I'm just sayin'...
Something I really truly believe, you can count on 1 hand the number of QBs that the Pack would have 11 wins or more with this year if they were starting QB for the Pack. Ryan Tannehill doesn't make my list of guys this team would have 11 or more wins with.
YATittle posted:I was sick last night watching Watt wreak havoc for the Steelers and recalling that everyone in the Packer draft room wanted Watt but senile TT had another plan....
I feel the same watching Devin Bush.
