@PackerPatrick posted:Did I think he would? No, not really. Did I hope he would? Yes.
I think we all hoped for some kind of clarity but then we have to remember there isn't a sincere word spoken across the entire NFL at any podium for interview.
This is why I like Charles Barkley.
@Trailrunners posted:"12 is starting to resemble a "girlie-man" from the Hans & Franz skits. He looks a buck-75."
I don't know, it seems like all this talk about Rodgers "weight" on here is getting a life of it's own. I don't know when this pic was taken, but does it look like a guy that weighs a "buck-75"? Even looks like he's got a little belly roll there. C'mon, you can do better.....
He's also standing next to a Hollywood waif. Fron his Derby pics the dude looks 175. In the above, maybe 195.
@Henry posted:This is the thing that people refuse to acknowledge as they trip over themselves to make it all about Rodgers.
Gunt's failure, regardless of who is "right", is epic considering the caliber of the player. If any other GM was this stupid we would be mocking that FO mercilessly.
Yeah, because we really admire brown nosing GMs? While Gute did screw up in not recognizing that his franchise QB is a big fucking baby, the character flaw here is with Rodgers. Trade him and let's move on. Time for Gute to do his fucking job and build a team to compete.
@Goalline posted:Yeah, because we really admire brown nosing GMs? While Gute did screw up in not recognizing that his franchise QB is a big fucking baby, the character flaw here is with Rodgers. Trade him and let's move on. Time for Gute to do his fucking job and build a team to compete.
I'm not sure Gute has a clue how to do his job......
@DocBenni posted:The more I think about it, getting rid of Gutey may not actually set a bad precedent. If AR feels this way about him, then I'm sure others do too. AR is one of the few with the clout to do anything about it.
In today's world, the idea of shut up and do your job, does not fly. We are seeing it in the world of sports because it get so much media attention. The players want to be empowered. If it's spun that Gutey, while possibly a good evaluator of talent, does not have the personality to deal with today's athletes, then it sends a message to the team and potential free agents that open communication and respect is what the organization wants to be about.
I'm dealing with the same thing currently at work. I'm the associate program director for our ER residency. Gone are the days of crazy ours, getting yelled at, etc. My residents want to have input and a say in their training. It's very difficult for those of us who trained during the previous decades because we have the mindset of that's just how things are done.
I'm sure it's similar in other businesses and walks of life.
I don't think it will happen, but I'm beginning to think it might not be such a bad thing. It's also the bad side of not having an owner. Corporations/boards move slow. An owner could say to AR, if we get rid of Gutey will you come back?
Then the next guy with any clout gets the next GM fired because he didn’t placate him..
@DocBenni posted:The more I think about it, getting rid of Gutey may not actually set a bad precedent. If AR feels this way about him, then I'm sure others do too. AR is one of the few with the clout to do anything about it.
In today's world, the idea of shut up and do your job, does not fly. We are seeing it in the world of sports because it get so much media attention. The players want to be empowered. If it's spun that Gutey, while possibly a good evaluator of talent, does not have the personality to deal with today's athletes, then it sends a message to the team and potential free agents that open communication and respect is what the organization wants to be about.
I'm dealing with the same thing currently at work. I'm the associate program director for our ER residency. Gone are the days of crazy ours, getting yelled at, etc. My residents want to have input and a say in their training. It's very difficult for those of us who trained during the previous decades because we have the mindset of that's just how things are done.
I'm sure it's similar in other businesses and walks of life.
I don't think it will happen, but I'm beginning to think it might not be such a bad thing. It's also the bad side of not having an owner. Corporations/boards move slow. An owner could say to AR, if we get rid of Gutey will you come back?
That's the thing. The root of it is still there with What Me Murphy. Compare Harlan to Murphy and there simply is no comparison. Harlan was the epitome of a senior statesman for the Packers.
The Packers are definitely more of an old school organization but look at guys like Brandt, Harlan, even TT. There was an empathy for the player regardless of the situation.
In hindsight, you have to wonder what it really is that resonated with WMM during Gunt's interview. There were plenty of other candidates long versed in the Wolf tree. When the exodus took place I firmly chocked it up to sour grapes but I'm not so sure anymore and the Browns have benefited from it.
I don't think the previous FO wasn't amenable to the modern player but I sure think this FO isn't amenable at all. Too many tough guy/dumb guy incidents since What Me Murphy took the helm.
@13X posted:I'm not sure Gute has a clue how to do his job......
Neither did Ted then..
@DocBenni posted:I don't think it will happen, but I'm beginning to think it might not be such a bad thing. It's also the bad side of not having an owner. Corporations/boards move slow. An owner could say to AR, if we get rid of Gutey will you come back?
I think Gertie has shown he's not GM material...he is a high-level personnel guy, and probably pretty good at it...but he's in a role he's not equipped to do. I'd never be in favor of dangling that carrot "if he's fired will you stay?" in front of 12 or any player.
If Murphy truly believes Gert is the best man for that position, then he has to stand by him. But that also brings into question, is WMM the best man for that position? IMO, nope. Hasn't been for a long time.
This whole thing has spun way the fuck out of control...way worse than it needs to be. And we have two camps...those that want to vilify 12 as being a diva, and those that want to vilify WMM and Gunt for stumbling over their own dicks mishandling the situation.
Yeah...12 is a bit of a diva...but name me one HOF QB that isn't? He's highly competitive and wants to win. Gunt, like most personnel guys, is dug in on not breaking from his system. Just like bean counters will always try to find the cheapest way to do something.
7 days...first day they can trade him. Kind of wish they would at this point TBH.
@Steve of Norway posted:Neither did Ted then..
Based on what? How he handled the Favre situation? If that is what you are referring to, that was a completely different situation and I thought it was time to move on from Favre and his retire/unretire BS and constant choking in the playoffs. I'm not saying Rodgers is faultless by any means but Murphy and Gute seem like they are clueless.
"It's not about the draft pick" he says. Does anyone think for a second that this whole thing is going on if Love wasn't drafted? Even Rodgers said again that his MVP season threw a monkey wrench into things. What "thing" AR? You mean the thing where they drafted your replacement?
I get he's not trying to shit on Jordan the way Brett shit on him, but come on. Being all cryptic with the "it's about the people" BS also isn't helping. Is he this cryptic and weird in the locker room? Cuz god that would be annoying.
He may want to be treated more like Brady or Manning but those two guys were about as blunt as you can get, especially on the field. Rodgers could learn a thing or two from them.
@Goalline posted:Yeah, I think I will take the side of a guy who took a failing franchise to 2 NFCC over people jerking all over themselves on a bulletin board. Sorry!
Rodgers was the primary reason they got there. Its not even arguable..... You can worship the FO all you want, but Rodgers is the reason for our recent success. Murphy and Gute could leave tomorrow and they wouldn't be missed. Rodgers will be missed.
Gute has done a solid job as a personnel guy. He’s done a miserable job in terms of communicating with his QB. Is that all his fault? I don’t know. Not like Murphy or Ball are setting the best example in terms of servant leadership.
It is a bit ironic though that Rodgers rails on relationship building and communications. He’s not exactly the easiest guy to read or connect with and can be high maintenance.
@DocBenni posted:I'm dealing with the same thing currently at work. I'm the associate program director for our ER residency. Gone are the days of crazy ours, getting yelled at, etc. My residents want to have input and a say in their training. It's very difficult for those of us who trained during the previous decades because we have the mindset of that's just how things are done.
I'm sure it's similar in other businesses and walks of life.
I don't think it will happen, but I'm beginning to think it might not be such a bad thing. It's also the bad side of not having an owner. Corporations/boards move slow. An owner could say to AR, if we get rid of Gutey will you come back?
I kind of have the same situation in my line of work. I manage a very large team and several members of my team want to have input on how things are done. I very much take in to account what input they have but I also have to walk the line that says I am in charge and sometimes you may not get what you think is right. Life if just like that sometimes. Now I know that sports does not really mimic real life but at some point management has to take that in to account.
An honest question on if they let Gutey go would AR want to come back? perhaps he would. But on the flip side of that what kind of GM candidates would you get if they know that AR is basically running the show? Maybe its just me but I would shy away from that situation. And would the organization have to vet the GM candidates past #12?
Really hard to believe that some appear to be advocating for the firing of Gutey. He's made some mistakes, but overall done a good job.
BTW, I really don't believe better FO communication in regards to the Love pick would have made a significant difference. AR's problem was the picking of his successor itself.
@13X posted:Rodgers was the primary reason they got there. Its not even arguable..... You can worship the FO all you want, but Rodgers is the reason for our recent success. Murphy and Gute could leave tomorrow and they wouldn't be missed. Rodgers will be missed.
So LaFluer had zero % impact then either. I’m sure Rodgers loved playing McCarthy’s hero ball and running for his life every play.
@Tschmack posted:Gute has done a solid job as a personnel guy. He’s done a miserable job in terms of communicating with his QB. Is that all his fault? I don’t know. Not like Murphy or Ball are setting the best example in terms of servant leadership.
Lets also remember that everyone reports to Murphy. That means certain typical GM-like duties have been taken out of Gute's hands that a normal GM would be in charge of. In essence Murphy has told Gute to build the team only, and Gute's done a good job at that.
But if Murphy is going to have so much say by having so many people reporting to him, it's really up to Murphy to be the leader here and smooth things over. As far as the FO side of this is concerned the buck stops with him, especially because of how he set the reporting structure up. You can't fault Gute for that.
@michiganjoe posted:Really hard to believe that some appear to be advocating for the firing of Gutey. He's made some mistakes, but overall done a good job.
BTW, I really don't believe better FO communication in regards to the Love pick would have made a significant difference. AR's problem was the picking of his successor itself.
It's not the action, it's the lack of communication. You take 10 mins to explain why the Org needs to make that pick to the HOF qb. You keep the scrub WR he likes to work with over the scrub WR you think has a smidge more upside. So on and so on.
Gute has let his title go to his head. He is the manager that nobody can stand to work for.
Rodgers isn't blameless. He's a diva, but that is to be expected. That is predictable. Part of managements job is to deal with that. They have failed miserably.
@13X posted:Rodgers was the primary reason they got there. Its not even arguable..... You can worship the FO all you want, but Rodgers is the reason for our recent success. Murphy and Gute could leave tomorrow and they wouldn't be missed. Rodgers will be missed.
Rodgers was on the team in 2017 and 2018. What did they do then? 7-9 and 6-9?
Gute takes over? 2 NFCC and 2 13-3 seasons.
Pattern recognition is not your strength.
@Henry posted:A failing franchise? WTF? Dude, you're creating your own reality.
Yeah those awesome 2017-2018 Packers were world beaters..take McCarthy’s balls out of your mouth..
@vitaflo posted:"It's not about the draft pick" he says. Does anyone think for a second that this whole thing is going on if Love wasn't drafted? Even Rodgers said again that his MVP season threw a monkey wrench into things. What "thing" AR? You mean the thing where they drafted your replacement?
I get he's not trying to shit on Jordan the way Brett shit on him, but come on. Being all cryptic with the "it's about the people" BS also isn't helping. Is he this cryptic and weird in the locker room? Cuz god that would be annoying.
He may want to be treated more like Brady or Manning but those two guys were about as blunt as you can get, especially on the field. Rodgers could learn a thing or two from them.
I think it's better to state it as how the draft pick was handled. There's zero chance drafting Love isn't a part of this equation. I do think he's going out of his way not to shit on Love the person. I feel the same way, it's not about Love, it's about what you're doing to win right now. When/if Love takes the reigns I'll cheer him on just like any other QB (as long as he doesn't completely flame out).
You simply don't get a blow up of this magnitude if you're supposedly in touch with the whole of the team.
@Goalline posted:7-9 and 6-9-1 in consecutive years? Yeah, WTF am I talking about?
Get back to scrubbing balls.
You mean years when Rodgers was hurt or there was a transition to a 1st time, 1st year HC?
That's not an endorsement for the FO or coaching staff whoever it was at the time. That's Rodgers carrying your team.
@Steve of Norway posted:Yeah those awesome 2017-2018 Packers were world beaters..take McCarthy’s balls out of your mouth..
Yeah I'm a real McVince fan you stupid fucking pigeon.
If you two girls want to go full nuclear, I'm good with that.
Hey, can anyone tell Homer Pigeon how I feel about McVince?
@BrainDed posted:It's not the action, it's the lack of communication.
Simply don't see the inadequate communication (which he has acknowledged) to be a fireable offense.
That’s where Rodgers comes across as a bit of a phony. I mean, he’s absolutely full of shit if he thinks the Love pick was a non factor in this. It absolutely is a factor, just like when Rodgers was drafted it pissed off Brent and his camp.
But teams and front office folks pull shady dishonest shit all the time as well. I just didn’t like the whole dialogue with Kenny Mayne. It was like a WWE production. 20% truth and accuracy, and 80% nonsense.
@michiganjoe posted:Simply don't see the inadequate communication (which he has acknowledged) to be a fireable offense.
When it comes to a guy that is the face of the franchise? The guy that's carried your team for over a decade? When it's a 1st ballot HOF, most important position in all of sports QB? The same guy that has done all things asked of him and stated over and over again he's committed to the Packers? The recent MVP?
The goal is winning championships. That window very likely just slammed shut.
Yeah, that's a very fireable offense.
@vitaflo posted:Lets also remember that everyone reports to Murphy. That means certain typical GM-like duties have been taken out of Gute's hands that a normal GM would be in charge of. In essence Murphy has told Gute to build the team only, and Gute's done a good job at that.
But if Murphy is going to have so much say by having so many people reporting to him, it's really up to Murphy to be the leader here and smooth things over. As far as the FO side of this is concerned the buck stops with him, especially because of how he set the reporting structure up. You can't fault Gute for that.
Fair point. There's no denying that Gunt is in some way shape or form a fall guy for WMM. The problem is he's likely making it all too easy.
Honestly, I'd be fine if Gunt was retained if they fired Murphy and Ball. Small chance of Gunt surviving that kind of transition but the real cancer is Murphy.
I'm not the biggest Gute fan and trading up in round one to get Love was really stupid (well, the jury still has a few pieces of undecided evidence to mull over) but---Aaron's statement: 'philosophy and maybe forgetting that it is about the people that make the thing go. It's about character and culture' and then citing numerous past stars--all of whom were not always the best "people persons" is so laughably full of crap..that I laughed until I crapped myself. Again, Rodgers is a football player not a social worker or a saint--the arrogance and self focus that he demonstrates make him a great QB. That is what matters most to me---but personality and attitude are always fun to observe and comment on.
A more accurate inwardly zen statement from Rodgers would be: "I have worked my butt off and have become the best QB in the land. Because of this, I should get great rewards including calling the personnel shots or at least being consulted for this team that I have made into a winner. If I don't get that and I feel slighted by management, I will walk, quit, demand a trade and certainly exact my revenge on those that slighted me. I am the best, no one shall cross me or mess with me without feeling my wrath". ...this is what this is all about. And I would respect him so much more if he would say this. But Rodgers is about as removed from zen philosophy as I am from cheering for the Bears.
Aaron is about Aaron and all that being the greatest delivers. He didn't date Jenni from accounting or Sarah that he met at an Alpha Kappa dance--he dates Jessica Szohr, Oliva Munn, Kelly Rohrbach, Danica Patrick and currently Shaillene Woodly ....Damn, It's good to be king. This off season, he didn't volunteer down at the good will...He hosted the most famous game show in the world. It's good to be king.
Great athletes get pampered and so be it, they are very much like royalty and as such are often naive about how the real world works...He's mad at the people in charge because they didn't treat him with respect..I cannot stop laughing over this...ohhh your job sucks? hey we've got a support group for you, it's the bar on the corner and we have a meeting every night after work.
I am a vocational counselor and I have never in my life met anyone who didn't have an 'I've been done wrong by management' story. Never. I want to send him Bing's classic zen masterpiece about dealing with bosses-Throwing the Elephant. Poor littler guy. They want to replace you before you're ready and all you got to do to stop it is go out and play your best? I feel so bad for you....
And so to show they have to be more about the people, character and positive culture, Rodgers will make the point of getting his revenge toward one guy by screwing over his teammates, coaching staff and literally millions of fans...to go to another team with a management system that also makes callous decisions based on the bottom-line. Right! as Confucius might say: When seeking revenge, dig two graves.
The most telling thing about Rodgers is when he cites past greats that made the team so good--all of whom did some pretty self serving things....he forgot to mention Ron Wolf who really was the lynch pin for the teams resurrection...How could he forget him? Oh yeah...Wolf recently and correctly referred to Rodgers as a diva.....never ever call a diva a diva!
Again if Rodgers plays for the Pack great, but if not-let's get some draft picks.
Get the draft picks. I really doubt he'd have a problem retiring.
I agree with you, Henry, that Murphy is in charge of it all so the buck stops with him. However, what are the chances that the board fires him anytime soon? Which is why not having an owner makes this situation more difficult to fix quickly.
@Henry posted:When it comes to a guy that is the face of the franchise?
Communication is a two-way street. Think AR has been without fault in that area?
My impression has been that he prefers passive-aggressive shots to resolving issues with discussion.
@Henry posted:You mean years when Rodgers was hurt or there was a transition to a 1st time, 1st year HC?
That's not an endorsement for the FO or coaching staff whoever it was at the time. That's Rodgers carrying your team.
He was "magically" hurt. Lafleur's offense doesn't actually protect the QB.
It is a results based game. You are your record. Everything else is an excuse.
@Goalline posted:Rodgers was on the team in 2017 and 2018. What did they do then? 7-9 and 6-9?
Gute takes over? 2 NFCC and 2 13-3 seasons.
Pattern recognition is not your strength.
After they FINALLY got rid of an incompetent GM and Coach. It looks like I will need to spell everything out for you. I'll try to slow things down a little for you. Let me know if I go too fast.....
Zero chance Murphy gets fired. I'm sure the board is all giddy about the Titletown District and nothing else.
@13X posted:After they FINALLY got rid of an incompetent GM and Coach. It looks like I will need to spell everything out for you. I'll try to slow things down a little for you. Let me know if I go too fast.....
So, Rodgers can't overcome an incompetent GM and coach? What good is he? Good thing he has a competent coach and GM now so he can win again.
Your "spelling" sucks.
