Datone Jones First Year...
How about now, see the difference? One of these things is not like the others.
Gary is not a play maker. Never has been. I'll be shocked if he ever is.
Don't care. He's a rookie. It is too soon to judge. What's your rush?
BrainDed posted:
How about now, see the difference? One of these things is not like the others.
Gary is not a play maker. Never has been. I'll be shocked if he ever is.
While I certainly have not given up on Gary and he did get some pressure in his limited snaps, it is a concern that he has never been a playmaker. I'm hoping for the best but for a guy drafted at #12 I would have hoped for a little more even in his rookie season.
Goalline posted:Datone Jones First Year...
How about now, see the difference? One of these things is not like the others.
Gary is not a play maker. Never has been. I'll be shocked if he ever is.
Don't care. He's a rookie. It is too soon to judge. What's your rush?
I'm sour that on the rare occasion that we do get to draft in the top half, we don't land a play maker / difference maker. I get that there wasn't a lot available in that slot, so I would have liked to see us move down.
Gary was not deserving of the 12 slot. 3 years at MU, 9 sacks. That kind of production can be had in round 4 or later.
They don't draft players based on production alone. Plenty of players have put up really good career numbers and been drafted late or not at all. Happens every year. He deserved that draft slot because of his attitude, his position versatility and this:
He recorded a Relative Athletic Score of 9.95, out of a possible 10.0. RAS is a composite metric on a 0 to 10 scale based on the average of all of the percentile for each of the metrics the player completed either at the Combine or pro day.
BrainDed posted:FinnLander posted:Based on that reasoning, Kenny Clark "is not a play maker - never has been - you'll be shocked if he ever is". Guess you're shocked.
See how that works?
Yeah I do see how it works. Thats why I copied your format. What you are not seeing is that Clark is the anomaly in the group. So yes, it can happen, but it is not likely.
In the initial post I responded to, you basically said "add Gary to this list of busts". Now you admit "it {becoming a player} can happen". So congrats, you're making progress. And now consider the fact that Gary changed positions from a lineman to a linebacker. I assume you can admit that such a move would likely hinder a player's performance.
So again, calling him a bust >> today << is laughable. He may become an All-Pro, he may bust. No one, even you, knows the outcome today.
He recorded a Relative Athletic Score of 9.95, out of a possible 10.0. RAS is a composite metric on a 0 to 10 scale based on the average of all of the percentile for each of the metrics the player completed either at the Combine or pro day.
To bad the this isn't track and field. #UnderwearChamp
FinnLander posted:So again, calling him a bust >> today << is laughable. He may become an All-Pro, he may bust. No one, even you, knows the outcome today.
Correct I don't know, but I can make an educated guess based off of previous performance and history.
- He's never been a play maker.
- Previous attempts at drafting underwear champs have typically not led to production on the football field.
- Previous attempts at drafting tweeners and changing positions have typically not led to production on the football field.
All the evidence points to one outcome. It could go the other way, it has happened in the past, I would be ecstatic if it did, but I don't believe it will.
BrainDed posted:He recorded a Relative Athletic Score of 9.95, out of a possible 10.0. RAS is a composite metric on a 0 to 10 scale based on the average of all of the percentile for each of the metrics the player completed either at the Combine or pro day.
To bad the this isn't track and field. #UnderwearChamp
It’s a data point, not an answer. You say “all evidence” points an outcome and that’s just not true. Lots of evidence points to the contrary.
BrainDed posted:Goalline posted:Datone Jones First Year...
How about now, see the difference? One of these things is not like the others.
Gary is not a play maker. Never has been. I'll be shocked if he ever is.
Don't care. He's a rookie. It is too soon to judge. What's your rush?
I'm sour that on the rare occasion that we do get to draft in the top half, we don't land a play maker / difference maker. I get that there wasn't a lot available in that slot, so I would have liked to see us move down.
Gary was not deserving of the 12 slot. 3 years at MU, 9 sacks. That kind of production can be had in round 4 or later.
I agree, but they've done it. Now we have to wait and see if they were right.
It'd be great to move down. Problem with that is every other team knows you're in "no man's land" in that slot too. You're not going to get proper value. Gute was royally fucked being at #12. And why??? Sure I'll move from #18 up to #12 here's a half drank Old Style & some partially used toilet paper.
In 2018 they beat the Falcons & Jets after MM got canned when he lost to AZ. Why???? What possible good does it do the franchise to win 2 meaningless games? Those 2 extra wins cost the Packers about 7 slots in the draft. Where they could've drafted Devin White.
I'm thinking he would've been a lot more help this year than Gary was.
As it is....You have to hope Gary can turn it up in year 2. Otherwise, he's a bust.
2019 draft. Gary was chosen at 12 as a need pick.
Ed Oliver was 9 at DT. Devin Bush was 10 at LB. Christian Wilkins was 13 at DT.
Oliver played 55% of defensive snaps in 2019. Wilkins played 65% of defensive snaps. Bush played 83% of his teams defensive snaps.
Gary played 22% of Green Bay’s 2019 defensive snaps. 22%.
i thought Pettine would be fired for that reason alone. There is a massive disconnect between GM, scouting, & coaching when a defensive playmaker is taken at 12 overall in the draft and then sent to the bench to waste away for an entire year.
Maybe Gary sucks but I find it very hard to believe he's worse than what's currently on the field.
Maybe in year 2 he'll know the defense super well & start making the calls with the communication device.
Since when do we shit all over a player after his first season? How long did Duhvante suck before he didn't?
I think most folks are unhappy with the rookie production WRT his draft position.
Me?? I'm inclined to wait 3 years like I do all rookies.
For fuck sakes this site shit all over itself because GB didn’t draft TJ Watt and then shit down an empty pant leg but it’s all get calm and patient and give it time for Gary.
Fuck me. This place is fucking insanity.
Is there another way😆
CJ, Packers fan in general, not exclusive to x4.
They felt Gary was the best player on the board by a country mile. For that reason they took him. Baltimore has a history of great OLB pass rushers...and they keep drafting and developing them because they have a lot of value. Kenny Clark looked like a bust his first year also...and wasn't particularly great most of year 2. Now he’s an anchor. Give Gary time.
And he's learning a new position. Those big guys take a couple years before you really see what you have. They just don't have the physical tools, much less the feel, for the pro game to play with the big boys.
Pakrz posted:Since when do we shit all over a player after his first season? How long did Duhvante suck before he didn't?
JFC it never ends.
Davante was already looking great as a rookie late in the year. May have been the final piece in beating NEP that year, according to Belichick. He gutted it out on a bad ankle in second season and picked it up again in his third year.
I need a rubber stamp.
Gary was not a need pick. Unless you consider every pick a need pick. He was kind of the opposite. They just signed the Smiths before the draft.
Gary was drafted as a project based on potential. Fair to be critical of the team for not drafting a player to fill an immediate need but premature to make any overall judgment on Gary.
Gary is big, fast and strong. Everyone knew that.
What we didn't know was if he was a football player. Right now, we have an underproductive college career and he couldn't get on the field his rookie year. I get why people are skeptical (and disappointed the #12 pick couldn't have an impact this year).
But he's a Packer now, so I hope something clicks for him.
Except that he did get on the field as a rookie. And he looked good in those limited snaps. Why were they limited? Ask the coaching staff but he was productive even if not always on the stat sheet.
It’s amazing when you look back at some of the horrible personnel decisions prior to Gute’s promotion.
First they give Nick Perry a 60MM extension, then Ted passes on TJ Watt and takes Josh Jones in R2 and Montavious Adams in R3.
Sure, they hit on Aaron Jones but holy crap that was a bad offseason and Gute has been trying to make up ground since that point.
As for Gary, who knows if they make that pick if Watt or someone else was on the roster? Surely you expect a guy taken 12 overall to at least contribute. I hope for him and us he figures it out.
DH13 posted:Except that he did get on the field as a rookie. And he looked good in those limited snaps. Why were they limited? Ask the coaching staff but he was productive even if not always on the stat sheet.
So when it comes to Oren Burks we have to trust that the coaches know whats best and Blake Freakin' Martinez is clearly better.
BUT....
When it comes to Gary we have to question the coaches belief that Klyer freakin' Fackrell is better.
That's right.....toe the company line.
The floggings will continue until morale improves.
We haven't even gotten to the Pro Bowl and I cannot wait for next season to start! GO PACK, GO!!!
In the NFL, "potential" is a hairbreadth away from "hubris".
Actually, potential is what gets NFL GMs fired...
1,039 possible defensive snaps this year, the Smiths each played about 83% of those snaps. So the fact that Gary "couldn't get on the field" means you're taking one of these guys off the field. $30M tied up per year for these two, how heavily would some of you bitch if they were off the field as a part of a rotation? Or just move them to a different position to get Gary on the field, we payed these guys to be fucking pass rushers, they're overpaid if they're playing another position. Fackrell had double digit sacks a year ago, he played 39% of snaps, does he get sent to the bench just because someone was drafted 12th overall? That's the kind of dumbshit move that some you bitched about AJ Hawk and others playing for years, playing people ahead of potentially productive players because of their draft slot. So do the fucking match, you're either benching players you're paying out the ass to be on the field just because this guy was drafted 12th overall, your benching a proven productive player again because of draft status, or you're shoehorning in formations with all of these guys on the field just to prove that your 12th pick was worth it. All options are to the detriment of the defense.
He got the appropriate amount of snaps for what our position depth dictated.
BrainDed posted:DH13 posted:Except that he did get on the field as a rookie. And he looked good in those limited snaps. Why were they limited? Ask the coaching staff but he was productive even if not always on the stat sheet.
So when it comes to Oren Burks we have to trust that the coaches know whats best and Blake Freakin' Martinez is clearly better.
BUT....
When it comes to Gary we have to question the coaches belief that Klyer freakin' Fackrell is better.
WTF is talking about Burks or Martinez? WTF is saying the coaches know best?
I don't think you read the post you quoted. Seemed to completely missed the part about his actually showing something in his snaps.
I'm looking forward to seeing him on the field in the future.
Pikes Peak posted:I'm looking forward to seeing him on the field in the future.
Agree, pretty hard to judge his performance when he barely sees the field. Gary also lost the need for his shoulder harness around December. Give him another offseason in the weight room, that can only help as well.
"1,039 possible defensive snaps this year, the Smiths each played about 83% of those snaps. So the fact that Gary "couldn't get on the field" means you're taking one of these guys off the field. $30M tied up per year for these two, , how heavily would some of you bitch if they were off the field as a part of a rotation? Or just move them to a different position to get Gary on the field, we payed these guys to be fucking pass rushers, they're overpaid if they're playing another position."
Right.. Exactly! So why waste the number 12 pick on a guy you know is going to be a backup to the two FA's you just signed and even a backup to the backup?
Smith's are here for 4 years. Why waste a cheap rookie contract at the 12 slot for the same postion? If you don't believe in those two OLB's you just inked then why the fuck did you ink them?
It was a bad pick because the kid aint dynamic enough to force his way on to the field and there isn't any room on the field for him because we just signed TWO FA's to four year deals to do his job.
After Fackrell leaves the #12 pick is looking at about 25 or 30 snaps a game. I want more out of the #12 slot that a 50% of the time player. If there ain't a guy there that you think can provide that to your squad, you move out.
"I want"? Were you stomping your feet?
BrainDed posted:It was a bad pick because the kid aint dynamic enough to force his way on to the field and there isn't any room on the field for him because we just signed TWO FA's to four year deals to do his job.
After Fackrell leaves the #12 pick is looking at about 25 or 30 snaps a game. I want more out of the #12 slot that a 50% of the time player. If there ain't a guy there that you think can provide that to your squad, you move out.
If your argument is that it was a wasted pick because we just signed the Smiths and there aren't enough snaps to go around and we have other needs, maybe that's legit. I would counter by saying having too many pass rushers is a good problem and at that particular draft slot there weren't many players who would have achieved that value/need other than maybe one of the Clemson DT's. Also we're not locked into the Smiths for 3 more years, they built in a potential out for Preston Smith after 2020 and for Z Smith after 2021, so if Gary takes big steps in 2020 then there's a good chance they move on from Preston. So we're not wasting prime contract years, he's being groomed and getting time to develop. How the fuck is that a bad thing?
Stop pretending you know anything about where he's at talent wise right now though and that his talent is the reason he didn't see the field more. His snap count number offers zero indication of his talent level or potential.