ROUND 1 PICK 12 - Rashan Gary DE/LB - Michigan

So I woke up with a new perspective on Gary this morning.  The fog of the Crown has worn off too.   

I came to the obvious conclusion that I don't know schit about Rashan Gary or any other player for that matter.  Sure, I read stories and looked at mocks like most others.  The reality is that all the information presented to us as fans are nothing more than opinions... opinions from people that normally aren't professional football talent evaluators. So, for me or anybody else to proclaim that Gary sucks or this was a crap pick is completely laughable.  

I've seen Rashan Gary listed as high as the 6th best talent in the draft and as low as the 58th (I think that was it).

My point is this:  The kid was, at one time, the #1 overall football recruit in the country.  His size/speed/athleticism are off the charts. His teammates speak highly of him and he appears to have the character you're looking for. His production wasn't what you'd like to see but almost everybody says he was "disruptive" and that he faced double/triple teams during college that allowed other guys to make plays.  

Gute, the guy that gets paid quite a bit of money to actually do what we like to dabble in, had Gary targeted since February and felt fortunate he "dropped" to GB. I'm good with that. 

I think Gary can play inside and outside, depending on the down/distance. If Gute hits on this kid, he has a chance to be a monster addition.  

Getting a bad vibe in terms of his character/work ethic - kind of like the bride focused on her wedding and not the marriage. Mix in the shoulder injury and I wish Gute played it safer with the #12 pick or traded down instead. 

Rashan Gary is a Swiss Army Knife and the NFL loves position flexibility. @RashanAGary @FBCoachDBrown #GoBlue x #NFLDraft pic.twitter.com/3xCJDtJkDF

— Michigan Football (@UMichFootball) April 24, 2019

Gute said he did his homework. I hope he gets an A+. 

I'm with you Pakrz, going in I wanted OL, pass rusher and safety in that order.  Now it looks like with the OL guys still available my wishes may come true. Just a bit out of my order.  

If I remember right when MP was asked if he was running a 3-4 or a 4-3 he said “yes”. Perhaps that’s why this tweener is a fit for his defense. NASCAR part two. The angry bald man might be able to make good use of this pick.

Haven't had a chance to watch any clips yet, but I've done more reading about him and I feel better with him now. The fact that he's a high academic performer who's already started his own agency firm helps with some of the work ethic concerns. Even with that, I strongly believe guys like Daniels and Clark aren't going to be very pleased with him if he starts slacking off, and will have no problem letting him know so if that does turn out to be the case,. And of course I'm sure Pettine and Lafleur won't be turning a blind eye to that.

Also, he was double and triple-teamed a lot at Michigan. No NFL team will be able to do that to him while holding off Clark, Daniels, Martinez, the Smiths and dare I say Fackrell. Let's see how training camp goes but I don't think this is going to be the nuclear franchise-killing disaster some are making it out to be.

I think if we all press pause and look at GB's front, we'd be pretty damn happy.

Smith, Smith, Clark, Daniels, Gary, Fackrell, Lowry, Adams, Gilbert... There's quite a bit of talent there. 

Top ten talent guy who didn't have the expected production at Michigan. Nobody knows how the pick will pan out (including Gute) but I love the willingness of the GM to take chances. It's like the stock market- the higher the risk and higher the potential reward.

Sounds like a great kid, hope he pans out.

https://www.packers.com/audio/...i-can-t-wait-to-work

The fact that I don't like the pick probably assures he'll make the Pro Bowl and in the running for D rookie of the year. My draft work over the years hasn't exactly been stellar. I thought Datone Jones was going to be a star.... so there's that. 

michiganjoe posted:

Top ten talent guy who didn't have the expected production at Michigan. Nobody knows how the pick will pan out (including Gute) but I love the willingness of the GM to take chances. It's like the stock market- the higher the risk and higher the potential reward.

I don't want potential at 12, I want production.   Potential is for late 1 or early 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IFtq_Rj1Fc

Here's a good highlight video of Gary at Michigan. He does disrupt a lot of plays and seems to have a knack for shedding blocks and running down ball carriers. 

Get on board Brainded. 

Pakrz posted:

So I woke up with a new perspective on Gary this morning.  The fog of the Crown has worn off too.   

I came to the obvious conclusion that I don't know schit about Rashan Gary or any other player for that matter.  Sure, I read stories and looked at mocks like most others.  The reality is that all the information presented to us as fans are nothing more than opinions... opinions from people that normally aren't professional football talent evaluators. So, for me or anybody else to proclaim that Gary sucks or this was a crap pick is completely laughable.  

I've seen Rashan Gary listed as high as the 6th best talent in the draft and as low as the 58th (I think that was it).

My point is this:  The kid was, at one time, the #1 overall football recruit in the country.  His size/speed/athleticism are off the charts. His teammates speak highly of him and he appears to have the character you're looking for. His production wasn't what you'd like to see but almost everybody says he was "disruptive" and that he faced double/triple teams during college that allowed other guys to make plays.  

Gute, the guy that gets paid quite a bit of money to actually do what we like to dabble in, had Gary targeted since February and felt fortunate he "dropped" to GB. I'm good with that. 

I think Gary can play inside and outside, depending on the down/distance. If Gute hits on this kid, he has a chance to be a monster addition.  

Well said and I agree. 

All draft picks are nothing but potential at this point.

I know another young physical freak who was knocked for his lack of production in college. 

Kenny Clark 3 seasons at UCLA: 159 tackles, 20 TFL, 6.5 sacks, 6 PD, 1 FF

Rashan Gary 3 seasons at UM: 119 tackles, 23 TFL, 9.5 sacks, 1 FF 

Both guys did a lot of dirty work so that LBs and DBs behind them could look good. 

It's not surprising D. Bush has sung his praises.  

The Packers have been trying to win by scheme for years now. It's past time they make the offense account for a superior talent. I like the pick.

Gary may also be one of those guys who is just a step above other players, but who does not have to use that step at the level he's playing to have success. Every draft sheet says he has elite potential and athleticism; well, maybe he didn't have to use all his skills to still have success in college, and now he'll be challenged to use all of it as a pro. I think Daniels especially will get on his case "just because" and Gary will, hopefully, respond.

ChilliJon posted:

Hate. Hate. Hare. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate the pick. Everything about it is shit. 

Oh boy...Hispanic Soup Jon doesn't realize the guy was double and triple teamed.

Now why would they do that?

The guy is a flat out stud if you actually knew how to guage "talant".

I mean...we are talking "Jerel Worthy" kind of talant here...think about it.

At least we have Pettine to mold him instead of Capers.  Also having Clark, Daniels, and the Smith Bros. should give him some good examples to model his game after.  That's a huge plus. 

I think his floor is Vonnie Holiday, a guy that we all had higher hopes for but at the end of the day, was a productive player that can play the run and set the edge but may never be a difference maker in the passing game.  His ceiling though it pretty high.  

I wasn't a huge fan of Gary but i'm trying to convince myself.  If the only knock on him is production, I think he'll be ok.  Players that have the measurables and pedigree that work hard and have a good motor aren't usually busts.  

Timpranillo posted:

Boris posted:

The last time I heard this much whining from the NFL draft was 1995. Look it up. 

They drafted another Darius Holland?

More like a Clete Hunt...but without the girl junk.

BrainDed posted:

I don't want potential at 12, I want production.   Potential is for late 1 or early 2.

Every college player is potential going into the NFL. 

You want to see how Pettine is going to use @RashanAGary and why they were so high on him? He's an ideal fit in Pettine's defense. Great, great, great breakdown by @BaldyNFL! https://t.co/cx11EeEZg5

— Andy Herman (@SconnieSports) April 26, 2019

CUPackFan posted:

At least we have Pettine to mold him instead of Capers.  Also having Clark, Daniels, and the Smith Bros. should give him some good examples to model his game after.  That's a huge plus. 

I think his floor is Vonnie Holiday, a guy that we all had higher hopes for but at the end of the day, was a productive player that can play the run and set the edge but may never be a difference maker in the passing game.  His ceiling though it pretty high.  

I wasn't a huge fan of Gary but i'm trying to convince myself.  If the only knock on him is production, I think he'll be ok.  Players that have the measurables and pedigree that work hard and have a good motor aren't usually busts.  

Vonnie Holliday is actually a really good comp. He was never a superstar, but he started in the league for a decade and averaged about 5 sacks per year as a tweener DE/DT. I would hope we get better production from Gary obviously, but that's not a bad worst case scenario. Jerel Worthy wasn't an impressive physical specimen, he had some highlight reel plays that showed a player with a quick first step and the ability to pressure from the interior. He's the reason why workout numbers still do matter, the tape and workout have to align, you can't draft solely off one or the other. 

From Twitter:

Chris Jones: 8.5 sacks in his college career

Chandler Jones: 10.0

Danielle Hunter: 4.5 (!!)

Frank Clark: 11.0

Interesting perspective about Gary's fit for Pettine's defense and how Gary compares to the Smiths. If Gary can have the same impact as Jadaveon Clowney then that's going to be outstanding. 

mr21mr21 posted:

Getting a bad vibe in terms of his character/work ethic - kind of like the bride focused on her wedding and not the marriage. Mix in the shoulder injury and I wish Gute played it safer with the #12 pick or traded down instead. 

I think character is great, and you don't test athletically like he did without a work ethic.  

Instincts to play football, my only concern.  He checks every other box. 

So it seems to me this player had a lot of disruptive plays that didn't translate to the stat sheet. Such as....

1. Tipped passes
2. Taking double & triple teams so other teammates can make a play
3. High effort chasing down ball carriers from behind

So everyone thinks he's overrated. I like the Vonnie Holliday comparison. That really fits & while Vonnie wasn't spectacular, he was incredibly solid on the defense.

I'll take a safe & solid football player rather than reaching for the stars & coming up with air

Devin Bush himself said, "I'd take Rashan Gary before me!" I think his teammate might know his own success was partly due to the team concept & his teammate freeing Devin up to make plays.

I also love the fact Steelers got right in front of Bengals to steal Devin Bush - No doubt in my mind Bengals were taking Bush if he was there.

Good thread here from Ross Uglem. I'm seeing more and more opinions dismissing effort as one of Gary's issues. Looks like he just needs some technique refinement. Don't know who was coaching him at UM or what the instructions/role was for him, but it could simply be that he he was asked to do more dirty work so Winovich and Bush could clean up. 

one criticism of Gary that I'm actually not havin' is the idea that the effort ran hot and cold. It did not. He might not have been technically proficient or consistently productive, but I don't see a lot of taking plays off pic.twitter.com/GkdzmbpfDC

— Ross Uglem (@RossUglem) April 26, 2019

Boris posted:

Devin Bush himself said, "I'd take Rashan Gary before me!" I think his teammate might know his own success was partly due to the team concept & his teammate freeing Devin up to make plays.

 

Go to 2:07 in the highlight reel I posted. The line gets tangled up trying to block Gary which allows Bush to pressure and nearly sack the QB. When he misses, Gary gets freed and is able to close out of the play. So not just a space hog who creates moments for more his linebackers, but someone who can also bring the pressure himself.

Another valid point about Gary that was pointed out this morning:

His supporting cast around him will be night and day compared to what Datone Jones and Perry had surrounding them. 

Gary will have Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels, ZaDarius Smith and Preston Smith to learn from. These are all solid veterans, not 1-2 year players. Plus a DC who knows his shit in Pettine. 

Ted Thompson refused to sign veterans to surround his young guys with. It was simply "go in there and figure it out". And Capers was a disconnected DC by that time who put it on his position coaches to mold those players. 

So the cast around Gary should really be able to help him out. To me, that's something you can't overstate in value. 

Every dopey Packers "expert"/fan will be justifying this pick so hard that by the end of today most of you will have Gary heading to the Hall of Fame.

If I'm not mistaken, this Uglem guy is the same genius who had Harold Landry and Josh Jackson as top-5 players last year. I only remember because it was so ridiculous.

heyward posted:

Every dopey Packers "expert"/fan will be justifying this pick so hard that by the end of today most of you will have Gary heading to the Hall of Fame.

If I'm not mistaken, this Uglem guy is the same genius who had Harold Landry and Josh Jackson as top-5 players last year. I only remember because it was so ridiculous.

It's needed in order to offset the ridiculous tantrum that took place right after the pick.

Me specifically. I look at any DL pick with scepticism. GB has invested so much early draft capital on DL over the years that my snap reaction is gonna be negative. That’s purely on me. For every Clark and Raji you have a Herrell, Worthy, Datone, Thornton, and even Perry to a certain extent I instantly think Gary is hitting the replay button. 

But I honestly have no idea how good Gary might be. Packers picked him. They’ve had him pegged since February. So what the **** else am I gonna do but hope he helps improve the defense?

Grave Digger posted:

Don't know who was coaching him at UM or what the instructions/role was for him, but it could simply be that he he was asked to do more dirty work so Winovich and Bush could clean up. 

I posted a great link at the top of the page with Don Brown, Michigan Defensive Coordinator,  discussing Gary's Role at Michigan. Good Stuff. 

Watching film on this guy for the last couple days, and hearing the DC's comments, make me think Gary could be a really good one. 

People who don't know much about football will always look primarily at sacks to judge a guys ability 

Boris posted:

I also love the fact Steelers got right in front of Bengals to steal Devin Bush - No doubt in my mind Bengals were taking Bush if he was there.

I said the same thing last night.  PIT totally sharked CIN with that trade up.  But I wonder if that set off a chain of events that led to Gute taking Gary.  

Vonnie Holliday was a late 1st round pick, not 12th overall.   He was solid, not spectacular although I think his skills as a run defender were underrated.   

Jerel Worthy was a 2nd rounder because he was a lazy.   That guy had dominant stretches at M$U then disappeared.  He was a 1st round talent. 

The concern on Gary is if he can get motivated and fired up to play.   I have to believe Gute thinks the coaches can do so otherwise why take him that high?  All the talent in the world doesn’t mean shit if you lack the work ethic and desire to perform. 

For our sake we better hope he plays and plays relatively well.   We do not need another Nick Perry or Datone Jones type player. 

heyward posted:

Every dopey Packers "expert"/fan will be justifying this pick so hard that by the end of today most of you will have Gary heading to the Hall of Fame.

If I'm not mistaken, this Uglem guy is the same genius who had Harold Landry and Josh Jackson as top-5 players last year. I only remember because it was so ridiculous.

heyward posted:

Every dopey Packers "expert"/fan will be justifying this pick so hard that by the end of today most of you will have Gary heading to the Hall of Fame.

If I'm not mistaken, this Uglem guy is the same genius who had Harold Landry and Josh Jackson as top-5 players last year. I only remember because it was so ridiculous.

He’s a HOFer by September for me.  I’m being cautious. 

Tschmack posted:

 

The concern on Gary is if he can get motivated and fired up to play.   I have to believe Gute thinks the coaches can do so otherwise why take him that high?  All the talent in the world doesn’t mean shit if you lack the work ethic and desire to perform. 

For our sake we better hope he plays and plays relatively well.   We do not need another Nick Perry or Datone Jones type player. 

 

A valid concern and I would hope that if this was an issue it might come out in interviews or conversations with his coaching staff prior to the draft. This might be an additional positive of Gutie bringing in some vets via FA. It won't just the coaches looking for him to get up to speed.