I feel the better draft would have been say Maybin and Unger, and not give up any picks.
Maybin is a legit pass rusher. He may not remind TT of himself as a youth but thats ok. And Unger would give a solid zone blocking olineman that should be a steady starter at center or guard, which would alleviate the problem of weaking the line when having to move guys to tackle.
Thats my opinion, time will tell.
agree with icon.
My reservations about Mathews were wrong and the trade was the right move. Also agree with icon and IC that Maybin sucks.
My reservations about Mathews were wrong and the trade was the right move. Also agree with icon and IC that Maybin sucks.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Typical.
I gave you the two most valid rosters and they both have Sitton as a guard. I'm not going to search the website to find quotes from McCarthy, Thompson, or Mike Mayock. I could certainly find more depth charts, but I'm certain that is not what you are looking for. I know I would much rather see Sitton at RG with Spitz at C and Colledge at LG - give the big boys a chance to blast a path through opposing defenses.
What has Barbre done to make you think he can be a quality OT? Hell, the Packer website has him listed as a G/T. He certainly doesn't have the weight that many OTs have. I simply think it is more likely than not that I am right on Barbre is valid based on what he has shown in his first two years.
If this had all ended last year like it originally would've, Favre would have stayed retired, and we wouldn't have had a 3rd rounder to even bitch about losing.
IT'S CALLED DEVELOPING PLAYERS! If you don't want to search the net for comments or other analysis, quit bitching.
quote:Originally posted by PackerJoe:
he does carry the risk that would have made me shy away from trading 3 day one picks to get him.
Three day one picks? We didn't have three day one picks, The 3rd rounders are DAY 2 picks.
I have no idea if he is worth it per the Draft value chart, sliderule or however draft picks are rated and I really don't care. All I care about is that he plays like a #26 pick and Raji plays like a #9. Then after the Packer Superbowl win we can discuss if he was worth it or not.
quote:Originally posted by Grave Digger:
I've got no beef with trading up and selecting a guy like Clay Matthews, none at all. Guy is a football player and will bust his butt to be the best, I have no doubt about that. I'm all for being ballsy in the draft also. But giving up that much value is not ballsy, it's stupid. Not saying Ted is stupid, he's a very smart guy which is why this move surprised me, but I think he liked Clay a little too much.
Word, HENRY!
quote:Originally posted by the-icon:
Maybin is a legit pass rusher. He may not remind TT of himself as a youth but thats ok. And Unger would give a solid zone blocking olineman that should be a steady starter at center or guard, which would alleviate the problem of weaking the line when having to move guys to tackle.
Maybin is a guy that put on 30 pounds in two months that many believe he won't be able to maintain as soon as two a days kick in. Let's see him take on OTs one on one in a 3-4 at 225 pounds.
quote:Originally posted by the-icon:
I basically agree. I think Matthews is just going to be like a step above Popinga. TT falls too in love with linebackers that fit that profile.
Yeah, and pays them too much like he did in Poppinga's last contract.
For what it's worth, TT wishes he had a 10th of the talent displayed by either Hawk or Matthews. Then again, they have the same skin color.
quote:Originally posted by Goalline:
For what it's worth, TT wishes he had a 10th of the talent displayed by either Hawk or Matthews. Then again, they have the same skin color.
The skin color's the important part.
I get the concerns over the RT situation, but for the people who are feeling the most grief over this trade-- is there an OT remaining on the board that you'd point to that you'd feel confident starting in September?
quote:Originally posted by the-icon:
Things to gripe about.. They are moving the best pass rusher on the team in an experiment.
Do you really and honestly understand how a 3-4 defense is ran? Making comments like this I really have to wonder.
quote:Originally posted by who:quote:Originally posted by Goalline:
For what it's worth, TT wishes he had a 10th of the talent displayed by either Hawk or Matthews. Then again, they have the same skin color.
The skin color's the important part.
It always is.
quote:Originally posted by FreeSafety:
I am a huge TT supporter and I watched a lot of USC last year and I think Belicheck just owned TT.
Well, TT certainly owned Belichick in 2006 when the Pats traded to our pick for Chad Jackson. We used their pick to get Greg Jennings. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Patriots.
Maybe TT threw the 3rd he got for Favre because he felt a bit guilty about raping the Patriots so blatantly?
To quote TT:
"It wasn’t a great trade, but it wasn’t a horrible trade for us from a number standpoint. Again, it gets to how badly do you want the player".
Apparently TT agrees with us "BASHERS".
"It wasn’t a great trade, but it wasn’t a horrible trade for us from a number standpoint. Again, it gets to how badly do you want the player".
Apparently TT agrees with us "BASHERS".
TEd did something today he has not done in his time at GB. He took a huge risk in moving up and getting somebody he wanted. Whether or not it is successfull is insignificant. It just showed that he was willing to take a risk for what he thought would make the Packers better. Kudso to him
And I love the two picks. According to Scouts, teh Packers only had about 70$ of the players to make the 3-4 work. With these two selections, it looks like 90% + complete. Let him sign a DE free agent like Holiday or Carter and they should be ready to go.
And I love the two picks. According to Scouts, teh Packers only had about 70$ of the players to make the 3-4 work. With these two selections, it looks like 90% + complete. Let him sign a DE free agent like Holiday or Carter and they should be ready to go.
quote:Originally posted by Floridarob:
Kudso to him
and credos and gebins to you
Nice job today EKR. Handled the shocker trade well.
I think we should trade Brohm tomorrow for a day one pick in this years draft 
quote:
Who's that gentleman standing by Matthews at :25? We should have known all along that this was our guy!
quote:Originally posted by CUPackFan:
Seems like everyone is upset b/c we gave up an extra 3rd rounder. How about we all just assume that pick was going to be used on Abdul Hodge, Torrance Marshall, Donnell Washington, BJ Sander, Joey Thomas or Brett Conway. There, I feel much better now.
Thanks for the laugh! The only downside for me with the trade is having to wait so long for the next pick. If Matthews wins a starting spot this year I may have to buy his jersey. I just hope he plays with an attitude!
Dare I say Urlacher-like when listening to Mayock?
So we got Pat Williams and Brian Urlacher proto-types in the first day ...
I'd say all you TT haters should STFU!
I'd say all you TT haters should STFU!
Whose the San Francisco 4gers in the 1950s. From the Packers.com Matthews bio talking about Clay Sr.
http://www.packers.com/draft/2009/matthews.phtml
http://www.packers.com/draft/2009/matthews.phtml
quote:Originally posted by the-icon:
Things to gripe about.. They are moving the best pass rusher on the team in an experiment. The two guys they are counting on for DE are always hurt. They gave up a big chunk of the draft to have a third proverbial hard working white guy lb whos best sack season was 4.5. The cb and safety depth is iffy at best. Both tackles are on their last legs and then when College and Sitton are moved to tackle, guard will be weak again.
I find that absolutely fascinating. Please elaborate.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
IT'S CALLED DEVELOPING PLAYERS! If you don't want to search the net for comments or other analysis, quit bitching.
Really? How long should we wait for Barbre's development? TT has drafted 6 OL between rounds 2-5 from 2006-2008 and 3 of the 5 starters last year were not drafted by TT. The amazing thing is Clifton, Wells, and Tauscher were drafted under a very different blocking style. Larry Beightol was awesome - too bad he's still not there.
I'm sorry that the roster listings on NFL.com and Packers.com aren't good enough for you, but I'm not going to do bitch work for you to nitpick at. I could also post several mock drafts, but that wouldn't appease you either. Do you have any comments or other analysis to back your point that the Packers have a good developmental OL staff?
frikken nitwits are out in full force today 
how come all you puds that know the "future" aren't billionaires by now.
hey joe, you didn't get one packer pik right for the first 3 rounds
hey joe, you didn't get one packer pik right for the first 3 rounds
quote:Originally posted by Koopla Krash:
Really? How long should we wait for Barbre's development? TT has drafted 6 OL between rounds 2-5 from 2006-2008 and 3 of the 5 starters last year were not drafted by TT. The amazing thing is Clifton, Wells, and Tauscher were drafted under a very different blocking style. Larry Beightol was awesome - too bad he's still not there.
I'm sorry that the roster listings on NFL.com and Packers.com aren't good enough for you, but I'm not going to do bitch work for you to nitpick at. I could also post several mock drafts, but that wouldn't appease you either. Do you have any comments or other analysis to back your point that the Packers have a good developmental OL staff?
I want to get this straight. What did you think of Wahle and Rivera and how long did it take for them to develop?
Quick Google search comes up with this .
Campen on Sitton
By Greg A. Bedard
Sunday, Apr 27 2008, 03:10 PM
Green Bay - Offensive line coach James Campen commented on the selection of UCF offensive linemen Josh Sitton:
(What is Sitton's best projected position) He'll play guard and tackle. He'll play both. When we get him here we'll see how he fits in the zone running scheme. We'll make that determination then.
(Is there a possibility you'll try him at center) Yeah. We always like to have a couple extra guys just in case things happen, and we think he has some attributes that would warrant that as well.
(Is the versatility what attracted you to him the most) Yeah. I think the fact that he's played guard and tackle in college, mostly tackle. But he rotates in at guard as well. But what attracted us the most was he brings a lot of fire, a lot of energy in his play. He's a tough guy, he plays with a good attitude. And as important as that is he'll fit in very nice with our offensive line. We had him up here for a visit and that went real well. He's our type of guy.
Did you read the articles about the changes in line play coming this year, including not rotating these guys all over the place? Of course not.
quote:Originally posted by Phoenix138:
I get the concerns over the RT situation, but for the people who are feeling the most grief over this trade-- is there an OT remaining on the board that you'd point to that you'd feel confident starting in September?
I actually thought the Pack was trading up to draft Eben Britton.
I'd like a chance to get Jamon Meredith or Troy Kropog - I'm pretty sure both would be upgrades over Tony Moll and would provide great competition for any of the other current options. I also wouldn't mind being able to lock down the OG position with either Duke Robinson or Kraig Urbek.
Took me all of a couple of minutes to do the "bitch work". No comments?
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
Took me all of a couple of minutes to do the "bitch work". No comments?
You did good Hen...........
quote:Originally posted by Henry:quote:Originally posted by Koopla Krash:
Really? How long should we wait for Barbre's development? TT has drafted 6 OL between rounds 2-5 from 2006-2008 and 3 of the 5 starters last year were not drafted by TT. The amazing thing is Clifton, Wells, and Tauscher were drafted under a very different blocking style. Larry Beightol was awesome - too bad he's still not there.
I'm sorry that the roster listings on NFL.com and Packers.com aren't good enough for you, but I'm not going to do bitch work for you to nitpick at. I could also post several mock drafts, but that wouldn't appease you either. Do you have any comments or other analysis to back your point that the Packers have a good developmental OL staff?
I want to get this straight. What did you think of Wahle and Rivera and how long did it take for them to develop?
Quick Google search comes up with this .
Campen on Sitton
By Greg A. Bedard
Sunday, Apr 27 2008, 03:10 PM
Green Bay - Offensive line coach James Campen commented on the selection of UCF offensive linemen Josh Sitton:
(What is Sitton's best projected position) He'll play guard and tackle. He'll play both. When we get him here we'll see how he fits in the zone running scheme. We'll make that determination then.
(Is there a possibility you'll try him at center) Yeah. We always like to have a couple extra guys just in case things happen, and we think he has some attributes that would warrant that as well.
(Is the versatility what attracted you to him the most) Yeah. I think the fact that he's played guard and tackle in college, mostly tackle. But he rotates in at guard as well. But what attracted us the most was he brings a lot of fire, a lot of energy in his play. He's a tough guy, he plays with a good attitude. And as important as that is he'll fit in very nice with our offensive line. We had him up here for a visit and that went real well. He's our type of guy.
Did you read the articles about the changes in line play coming this year, including not rotating these guys all over the place? Of course not.
Yeah, I know about the non-rotational OL deal this year. So you found an article that is over a year old about which position Sitton might play right after the Packers selected him. How about a site know you get a lot of your Packer info from:
Sitton and Barbre are guards
Note this same article calls OT the team's biggest need.
Your comment about Wahle and Rivera is virtually meaningless as James Campen is no where near the coach that Beightol was - the player development under Campen is virtually non-existent compared to Beightol. Once Campen has any of his o-lineman he has groomed sign monster FA deals or make the Pro Bowl, then we can start to compare the coaches. Until then, I'm sorry if I am hesitant to trust Campen's mentoring.
GUARDS: “There may not be a star among the guards, but Daryn Colledge and Jason Spitz are pretty solid. If Spitz moves to center, Josh Sitton should be ready to take over at right guard. Allen Barbre is too young and too talented to dismiss and Duke Preston could slide over from center if necessary. I don’t see much of a need here.”
What exactly of "too young and too talented" equates to washout as you like to keep harping about? So Sitton and Babre are slated as guards but played tackle in college and the coaching staff thinks both could move to tackle in the future.
Colledge and Spitz are "pretty solid". Horrible predicament.
BTW, how long has Campen been coaching and what is the difference between the ZBS and the power game Beightol coached?
What exactly of "too young and too talented" equates to washout as you like to keep harping about? So Sitton and Babre are slated as guards but played tackle in college and the coaching staff thinks both could move to tackle in the future.
Colledge and Spitz are "pretty solid". Horrible predicament.
BTW, how long has Campen been coaching and what is the difference between the ZBS and the power game Beightol coached?
quote:I'm sorry that the roster listings on NFL.com and Packers.com aren't good enough for you, but I'm not going to do bitch work for you to nitpick at.
Not that I want to agree with Henry (I'm just disagreeable) Packers.com has Barbre listed as a G/T, NFL.com has him listed as a OT (I assume that means Offensive Tackle, they have T for tackle, G for guard so I guess that would mean he is listed as both) In his bio on Packers.com it says:
"Was moved immediately to guard upon being drafted in the fourth round in 2007 despite playing his entire college career at tackle."
Sitton played both guard positions and Tackle in college but is listed as a guard.
The O-line is a position that needs to be addressed in the draft tomorrow but just this 10 minutes of research indicates to me that it is not as pressing of a need as I thought. It is possible that moving Barbre from Tackle to guard slowed his development and was a mistake. When drafted him Tauscher and Clifton were signed and healthy. Things are different today, the blocking scheme and the status of Clifton and Tauscher.
quote:Originally posted by who:
CB--Charles Woodson
Backup--2008 2nd round pick Pat Lee
FS--Nick Collins
Backup--2009 FA signing, Anthony Smith
SS--Atari Bigby
Backup--Aaron Rouse
CB--Al Harris
Backup--Tramon Williams
*
Why are we adding a 3rd round pick at DB? For third string?
Not sure I get your point.
Or do you think the Packers are set and need no additional players ?
We are actually in agreement on more than you think - I like the interior part of the line. I think Colledge will shift over to LT next year and do a pretty decent job. I am just very concerned about the RT position.
Yeah, Beightol had coached for many more years than Campen has, but the proof is in the results. Until Campen can develop Pro Bowlers, he isn't doing a good enough job. TT has clearly given him plenty of material to work with.
Yeah, Beightol had coached for many more years than Campen has, but the proof is in the results. Until Campen can develop Pro Bowlers, he isn't doing a good enough job. TT has clearly given him plenty of material to work with.
C'mon, Henry. Admit that you're not sold on Campen either.
Or are you too busy ??
Or are you too busy ??
I wish some people would stop failing to understand the difference between two entirely different concepts.
1. Being opposed to TT always trading down, never trading up.
2. Being opposed to TT trading up where the evaluation system suggests it was inequitable.
Those are two ENTIRELY different things.
I guess I am hoping TT with all his evaluation ability, sees this guy as very close to can't miss. I think 3rd rounders cannot fit into that category and maybe this is the rationale.
Like others, I have OL concerns. Maybe the Pack can land one solid offensive lineman in FA.
1. Being opposed to TT always trading down, never trading up.
2. Being opposed to TT trading up where the evaluation system suggests it was inequitable.
Those are two ENTIRELY different things.
I guess I am hoping TT with all his evaluation ability, sees this guy as very close to can't miss. I think 3rd rounders cannot fit into that category and maybe this is the rationale.
Like others, I have OL concerns. Maybe the Pack can land one solid offensive lineman in FA.