ROUND 1 PICK 26 (f/Baltimore through New England) - OLB Clay Matthews (USC)

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Originally posted by Packdog:

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Originally posted by who:
CB--Charles Woodson
Backup--2008 2nd round pick Pat Lee

FS--Nick Collins
Backup--2009 FA signing, Anthony Smith

SS--Atari Bigby
Backup--Aaron Rouse

CB--Al Harris
Backup--Tramon Williams

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Why are we adding a 3rd round pick at DB? For third string?

Not sure I get your point.

Or do you think the Packers are set and need no additional players ?

My point is that we have 3 Pro-Bowlers starting and we have their backups chosen. We don't need to spend a 3rd rounder on DB. This was all related to the kvetching of losing one 3rd round pick and all the things we supposedly need, DB being supposedly one of them.

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Originally posted by fdl:

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Originally posted by trump:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI7dA3UttUM

Who's that gentleman standing by Matthews at :25? We should have known all along that this was our guy!

There's some awesome footage there of Matthews ... he's an elite athlete. I think the extra value given up to get this guy is going to wind up being long forgotten in the near future.

They have 6 picks tomorrow !!!! Plenty of shots to take, Phaedrus.

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Originally posted by PackerJoe:
No way anybody can say that TT is only interested in "football players" exclusively. This guy was drafted on his measurables alone. I'm not saying that this guy is an automatic bust (guys with these types of resumes often succeed in the NFL), and I had him as a first rounder on my board. But this is definitely a roll of the dice on a "workout warrior" and to try to spin it any other way would just be totally ignoring the facts.

Perhaps, but remember Thompson played against his father's Browns teams and was a teammate of his uncle. It may have given him more insight into Clay Matthews III than you are giving him credit for.

No reason why Barbre, Giacomini or Moll can't handle the RT slot. Players develop and improve in time through strength conditioning, skill development, off season programs, maturity, etc. Mark Tauscher isn't the only guy that can play that position. Does anybody really think TT will go into the season with a guy or two who can't play that position?

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Originally posted by PackerJoe:
Making this bold of a move, trading up and obviously coming out on the short end of the value of picks, and taking a player who was a one year starter and totaled 5.5 sacks during his entire college career (5 years) is way, way, way, way, way too risky of a move for my taste.

No way anybody can say that TT is only interested in "football players" exclusively. This guy was drafted on his measurables alone. I'm not saying that this guy is an automatic bust (guys with these types of resumes often succeed in the NFL), and I had him as a first rounder on my board. But this is definitely a roll of the dice on a "workout warrior" and to try to spin it any other way would just be totally ignoring the facts.

Seriously? I'm not head hunting or trying to deliberately bust your balls here, but it might be time for you to take a few steps back and check yourself. Ted Thompson and his staff forgot more about scouting NFL prospects than you'll ever know (Or anybody else here for that matter). They are anything but perfect, but for the love of God, stay in your lane.

I heard the move on the radio but didn't hear the compensation until now. Wow.

I like Matthews a lot. I didn't think there was any way the Packers would get both he AND Raji. I'm glad TT made a bold move to improve the team.

That said, TT gave up IMO too much to move up. Sure the value chart is fluid, but dang that was a hefty price to pay. That second third-rounder was too much. Even a fourth would have been heavy, but better. But then again....

Vonnie and a couple of other guys are still available if they feel they need a solid body at DE in the rotation.

If Raji and Matthews both become studs the trade is fine, but dang it was a lot to give up.

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Originally posted by who:


My point is that we have 3 Pro-Bowlers starting and we have their backups chosen. We don't need to spend a 3rd rounder on DB. This was all related to the kvetching of losing one 3rd round pick and all the things we supposedly need, DB being supposedly one of them.

DB is a area of high attrition, so I kind of disagree that a roster is ever set back there. Not saying our "lost" picks should have been used there, but competition is always a good thing.

Surely you can understand how some fans might not like the price paid for Matthews. I guess the best way to sum my initial take was....I like the Matthews pick, but was kinda bummed at using our second and two thirds on him. Too much !!!!

If Ted Thompson thinks Matthews was worth going up to get, you have to give him credit for making it happen. We'll see if he was worth the high price paid.

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If Raji and Matthews both become studs the trade is fine, but dang it was a lot to give up.

You've been harping for years that TT wouldn't do what he just did and now it's too much?

An extra 3rd?!?!? In this WEAK draft?!?!??

We get 2 guys that the Patriots liked and you're not happy!?!?!?

We didn't even have to do any scouting, just go off what the Pats liked.

"They're both more explosive than Logan Mankins." - Coach

(2) 1st rounders that are probably going to start in Sept. I just don't see the downside here

If someone wants to argue that we could have used a 3rd on an OT, I'm not going to argue. But we didn't need to burn a 3rd on a DB. That said, my guess is that TT is not as concerned about OT as some fans may be. As someone else said on another board, perhaps it's just best to view that we got a fifth rounder for Favre, and traded a 2nd and a 3rd to move up to the 1st round. That may seem more palatable. I also don't think TT thinks that he needed 9 picks out of this draft. He wanted some studs, and he got two so far. I'm sure he's going to draft an OT yet.

I knew TT would find a way to part with that Favre pick. I also think he might have placed a little lower value on that pick than he normally would seeing that Favre is out of the league. I know that seems odd, but TT was never comfortable in discussing the compensation he received as part of the Favre deal so in a way he might have wanted to kind of rid himself of that pick.

TT thinks this team is close. He's going all-in now and putting the shotgun away. He took two rifle shots today. Passes on a luxury pick in Crabtree for the NT, and goes long to get Matthews. This on the heels of loading up on the defensive coaching staff already this offseason.

They have completely and totally re-done this defense inside of three months. They need another stopgap DE, but that's about it. What's most fun about this for me is that this offseason has shown a shift in management's direction. They seem to think it's time. If they're right, it could be a fun season. Whether these guys they drafted today work out or not no one knows here or anywhere else. What they did and how they did it is what's significant about day one.

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Originally posted by Boris:

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If Raji and Matthews both become studs the trade is fine, but dang it was a lot to give up.

You've been harping for years that TT wouldn't do what he just did and now it's too much?

An extra 3rd?!?!? In this WEAK draft?!?!??

We get 2 guys that the Patriots liked and you're not happy!?!?!?

We didn't even have to do any scouting, just go off what the Pats liked.

"They're both more explosive than Logan Mankins." - Coach

(2) 1st rounders that are probably going to start in Sept. I just don't see the downside here

As I said, I love both players and I love the bold move, I'm just a little shocked at how much he gave up for Matthews. At first glance it just looks like a whole lot. I also don't think this draft is all that weak.

As far as the Patriots go, they wouldn't overpay for Raji but Thompson probably did for Matthews.

Love both guys, love the move, just feels like the compensation was hefty. As I mentioned above, if he needs a couple of place-holding guys for the end spots there are couple out there and it's no disaster or any thing like that.

Man crush 2009

TT said people had Matthews ranked anywhere from #12 to #30. If TT had him ranked at #15 overall lets say, of course it makes sense for him to move up and give up what he did. Everyone is worried so much about where he was taken and not where he was ranked on GB's board. I assume he was ranked much higher than 26 for TT. Where a player is ranked on your board vs where the draft currently is makes all the difference in a trade.

I have to admit, I was shocked too...

The value didn't seem right.. I mean we lost a next morning pick!

So I read and did research...and the more I thought about it, the more it made sense... and the fun of the TT bashers really having little complain about was a bonus.

I'd love an OT too, but really think about it.

Check this link:

http://www.packers.com/draft/2000/tauscher/

Tausch was a 7th, Timmerman too... We have 5 picks yet, we could even move up! Heck, as considered elsewhere, maybe Belicheat was just manning up for more trading for next year's draft and doesn't like this draft!

No matter what, we got a couple of freaking blue chippers and I'm very excited about adding them to my... err... our... Green Bay Packer roster!

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Originally posted by JJSD:
TT thinks this team is close. He's going all-in now and putting the shotgun away. He took two rifle shots today.

They have completely and totally re-done this defense inside of three months. They need another stopgap DE, but that's about it.

I'm not sure they need another DE. I think on 3rd and long you'll see Kampman slide back into his normal DE position. Can you imagine the look of terror on some OL having Kampman, a healthy A.J. Hawk, a healthy Jenkins and now Mathews all coming at once, from the center gap to the outside?

The OL speculation is tough because Monroe was taken right before GB picked (maybe they had him targeted) but since he was picked I could not see any other logical choice other than Crabtree or Raji. You certainly would not think Oher would have been selected at #9.

Something to consider is that TT might think the OL will be OK for this year. Yes, Clifton has bad knees but I do think he will have him slotted as the LT this season and I could see Colledge sliding over to play LT (long term) once Cliffy goes. They added a guy from Buffalo (Preston) that started at guard and could probably play one of the interior OL spots. Spitz is solid, and Wells has proven his ability. Many people totally forget about Sitton- he was penciled to start until injuries took hold. Then there is Moll and Barbre- two guys that have ability that could be looked at to replace Tauscher.

I also would not rule out the Packers resigning or bringing back Tauscher.

It really is hard to debate how things turned out on the first day- I will admit- this is the best I have felt about a draft since they took Rodgers in 2005. We have (at the very least) a guy in Raji that will get signficant time at the nose position, and we added a LB that will likely assume the other OLB spot opposite Kampmann. All of a sudden the defense looks a lot better.

That's a pretty high price and TT seems to acknowledge that in his comments, but we won't know whether it's too high a price until Matthews steps on the field. If he plays to the level that TT obviously feels he's capable of then it'll look like a bargain.

I'm just glad to see TT move out of his typically conservative mode and go bold for a change.

For all you people that bow at the Alter of the Trade Value Chart, just tell yourself that the Packers had to move up to #20 overall to get Matthews. That would satisfy the Holy Chart. Is he "a reach" at #20? Not from what I read pre-draft.

If that doesn't help, just go back to the last trade TT made with NE where he ended up with Jennings and Spitz and the perfect Bill Belichek ended up with Chad Jackson. Ask yourself who got the better end of that deal now that we've had a few years to look back on it. If you any synapses firing, you'll see that it is possible for the Pats to get the short end of the stick on draft day deals.

The Packers walked out of day 1 with 2 solid prospects at positions of need. What's not to like?

The thing about targetting a few players is it doesen't leave much room for error. Th is is what Sherman ran into. I kinda like making alot of picks because the draft is such a crapshoot and someone from a lower round ends up being a better player ala Mckenzie over Antuan Edwards.

just finished reading the SI article about the 3 USC linebackers. matthews is a special teams ace, and ken norton said he will be the first to start and have the longest career.

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Originally posted by grbaypack:
I knew TT would find a way to part with that Favre pick.

I don't believe for 1 second that TT made this move using that line of thinking.

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Originally posted by h_i_mcdonnough:
just finished reading the SI article about the 3 USC linebackers. matthews is a special teams ace, and ken norton said he will be the first to start and have the longest career.

Well, thanks for the link.

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Originally posted by grbaypack:
I think the extra value given up to get this guy is going to wind up being long forgotten in the near future.

Agree.

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Originally posted by vitaflo:
TT said people had Matthews ranked anywhere from #12 to #30. If TT had him ranked at #15 overall lets say, of course it makes sense for him to move up and give up what he did. Everyone is worried so much about where he was taken and not where he was ranked on GB's board. I assume he was ranked much higher than 26 for TT. Where a player is ranked on your board vs where the draft currently is makes all the difference in a trade.

Exactly.

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Originally posted by Hipp:
For all you people that bow at the Alter of the Trade Value Chart, just tell yourself that the Packers had to move up to #20 overall to get Matthews. That would satisfy the Holy Chart. Is he "a reach" at #20? Not from what I read pre-draft.

If that doesn't help, just go back to the last trade TT made with NE where he ended up with Jennings and Spitz and the perfect Bill Belichek ended up with Chad Jackson. Ask yourself who got the better end of that deal now that we've had a few years to look back on it. If you any synapses firing, you'll see that it is possible for the Pats to get the short end of the stick on draft day deals.

The Packers walked out of day 1 with 2 solid prospects at positions of need. What's not to like?

Value!

Guys like Clay Matthews don't grow on trees.

I think alot of U$C players fail based on the fact they think the NFL is going to be a breeze. If you watched Matthews at U$C, he showed he is relentless in his play and has the bloodlines.

Yeah, given up what Thompson did was alot but some mocks had him in the mid-first. We have no idea how high the Packers had Matthews at all.

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Originally posted by Hipp:
The Packers walked out of day 1 with 2 solid prospects at positions of need. What's not to like?

Agreed, but my biggest concern in giving up the two 3rds is always in the area of injuries. I remember a Wolf draft where Aaron Taylor and Mike Flanigan both got hurt in TC and Wolf said, "there goes the guts of our draft". It's conceivable a guy like Laurinaitis (or even Sintim) could've been had in the 2nd if Ted had stayed put. If they ended up with either of those two it probably would've meant Barnett being moved to the OLB position.

Overall I'm ok with the moves but the conservative side of me likes stocking up on 2nds and 3rds. I guess years of watching first rounders out-played by non-first rounders has left me a little jaded.

The Pack is in good hands with Ted and his staff - just hoping Mathews will prove to be worth the price. From what I've read and seen, it seems like he will be.

When was the last time you saw TT go after a player like Matthews? Was it Woodson?

Can you imagine if we stay healthy this year?

Imagine a healthy Harrell on the line.

This could be a special year.

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Originally posted by the-icon:
The thing about targetting a few players is it doesen't leave much room for error. Th is is what Sherman ran into.

Really? Wow, it's a good thing Thompson doesn't move up that often then, huh?

You Tube highlights:

Matthews

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Laurinaitis (or even Sintim) could've been had in the 2nd if Ted had stayed put. If they ended up with either of those two it probably would've meant Barnett being moved to the OLB position.

I have watched plenty of Laurinaitis specifically and he's not in the same zip code as Matthews III. He's much slower and doesn't have near the size/strength combo like Clay.

I know less about Sintim, but every year we play this game- they should have stayed put, they should have moved up, etc, look at who they missed or passed up on, yadda yadda. It's almost bigger than the draft itself.

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Originally posted by Fedya:
I think Goalline, as a Tottenham fan, is used to seeing it.

Hi all. Haven't been here in forever. Goalline is a "Tittenram Hotsperm" supporter? What a shame.
As for day one, I loved it! Raji is a bulldozer and Matthews looks like a madman. Two new starters. Cool. The only thing that sucks about TT's move is having to wait so long between draft picks.

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Originally posted by Zeke Brat:
Hi all. Haven't been here in forever. Goalline is a "Tittenram Hotsperm" supporter? What a shame.

Shut up, Gooner. :-)

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For all you people that bow at the Alter of the Trade Value Chart, just tell yourself that the Packers had to move up to #20 overall to get Matthews. That would satisfy the Holy Chart. Is he "a reach" at #20? Not from what I read pre-draft.

EXCELLENT point (and thanks).

If one is going to do the trade value thing, it makes sense to work the equation according to where TT ranks Matthews, not where he was selected.

Makes me feel a lot better and I somehow missed this piece of logic.

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Originally posted by Pakrz:
Seriously?

Seriously.

If you go back and read my post, you can clearly see that I'm not predicting failure for Matthews. There is an excellent chance he will be a better professional player than college player, because he is likely a better fit for a 3-4 than the 4-3 he played in college.

But these facts are as follows:
Matthews was at USC for 5 years, played 4 years and redshirted 1 of those years.
In the four years that he played he started 12 games.
In the four years he played he totaled 5.5 sacks.

Now if someone wants to say that a player with that resume was drafted (#26 overall) purely based on his football resume, it would be a very questionable statement. 3-4 OLBs are drafted in round one to get after the quarterback, and Matthews only did that 5.5 times in his entire college career. Clearly this guy was drafted on measurables and workout numbers. Again, that is not a prediction of failure. Guys with average college careers do go on to become better professional players. Guys with great college careers crap out in the NFL. Both situations happen all the time.

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Originally posted by PackerJoe:

Now if someone wants to say that a player with that resume was drafted (#26 overall) purely based on his football resume, it would be a very questionable statement. .

..but he was worth #23 on your mock draft board? Right? Cut it out!

You're just looking for a reason to bitch.

Something to think about is that he wasn't highly recruited or heralded like some guys, and the fact he became a starter as a walk-on at a place like USC says something about his motivation and work ethic. Year in and year out USC is loaded with 5-star, blue chip prospects, so I am sure it's not too easy to work your way into becoming a starter.

I am much more comfortable with the route Matthews took than someone like Robert Ferguson- a guy that didn't play a lot AND came out early.

There will also be some built in pressure to succeed because he is a Matthews, and that can serve as pretty good motivation as well. I am sure he won't want to tarnish that legacy.

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Originally posted by vitaflo:
TT said people had Matthews ranked anywhere from #12 to #30. If TT had him ranked at #15 overall lets say, of course it makes sense for him to move up and give up what he did. Everyone is worried so much about where he was taken and not where he was ranked on GB's board. I assume he was ranked much higher than 26 for TT. Where a player is ranked on your board vs where the draft currently is makes all the difference in a trade.

good post,and dead nuts. Some people are going on these draft chart of some of these so called "draft experts" and that doesnt mean that's what on the GM's board/war room.

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Originally posted by Tschmack:
Something to think about is that he wasn't highly recruited or heralded like some guys, and the fact he became a starter as a walk-on at a place like USC says something about his motivation and work ethic. Year in and year out USC is loaded with 5-star, blue chip prospects, so I am sure it's not too easy to work your way into becoming a starter.

Another person that gets it. The guy has busted his ass to get where he is. I am thinking this has really nothing to do with Matthews for most that are complaining here. Instead just another weak attempt to bash Ted Thompson because their just going to bitch about anything the guy does.