Folks are rightly talking about Matthews work ethic to walk on at USC and win a starting job, but let's not forget that it also takes a ton of tallant to do that. You don't walk on at a program like USC and beat out these HS All-Americans if you don't have the skills to justify it convincingly.
As far as his only starting one year, remember how incredibly stacked that program is. They've had more than one Heisman winner/finalist sit for a couple/three years before starting there, as the depth chart is absolutely loaded from top to bottom. You don't walk into USC and start from day one. You just don't unless you're a very rare exception. Hell, Cassel didn't even get on the field there. I know... different position, but it speaks to the depth of their roster.
JJSD is right on. Another example is Sanchez, 16 games and 5th overall pick.
USC did have 2 OLB get drafted last year, including the ninth overall selection Keith Rivers.
So here it the trade.....
Clay Matthews and ______________________
for
Darius Butler CB UConn, Derick Cox DB William & Mary and Brandon Tate WR UNC.
Putting the names there makes the trade look a little better. Of course we will not really know until about 2 - 3 years from now.
Clay Matthews and ______________________
for
Darius Butler CB UConn, Derick Cox DB William & Mary and Brandon Tate WR UNC.
Putting the names there makes the trade look a little better. Of course we will not really know until about 2 - 3 years from now.
Do we keep Poppinga for depth or is he now trade bait? I doubt they could get a team to give up much as far as a draft pick for him but who knows?
Cox could have been the greatest Packer to come from William and Mary since Darren Sharper.
quote:Originally posted by Packdog:
C'mon, Henry. Admit that you're not sold on Campen either.
Or are you too busy ??
I'm not a big Campen fan but the argument started on this comment.
quote:Originally posted by Koopla Krash:
Currently, the cupboard looks pretty bare:
Giacomoni, Sitton, Barbre, Colledge, or 4th round pick or later.
It was spun back to Campen after KK got a heapin' helpin' of facts shoveled down his throat.
My take on Campen after reading articles this offseason and getting some good perspective right here on x4 is Campen is a guy trying to teach a system, which he is two times removed from teaching. This was Jagermomma's scheme and it would seem MM is finally moving away from it. I'll give Campen a chance in the light of what changes that may happen this year.
quote:Originally posted by Henry:
My take on Campen after reading articles this offseason and getting some good perspective right here on x4 is Campen is a guy trying to teach a system, which he is two times removed from teaching. This was Jagermomma's scheme and it would seem MM is finally moving away from it. I'll give Campen a chance in the light of what changes that may happen this year.
Agreed. And Campen has still had some solid developmental work on Colledge and Spitz. Both have had the arrow pointing up since they got here. Sure, you get the occasional Tauschers and Cliftons that step right in from Day 1 and excel but you also see a 2-3 year developmental curve as with guys like Mike Flanagan, Marco Rivera and Mike Wahle. I think we've witnessed the latter with Campen's guy to some degree. It's entirely possible that some of the draftees that have not cracked the lineup will still turn into really good players.
I'd had loved to have grabbed another OL prospect, preferrably a OT, with an early choice. That is a price that Thompson paid, which is certainly a legitimate discussion point. But sometimes you give up some things to make gains elsewhere. We haven't seen Thompson make a lot of sacrifices like this but it sure seems like a decent gamble to me.
BTW--The Pats just traded out of 2009 3rd to a 2010 2nd. That ought to say something to confirm that he doesn't think much of the talent pool this year.
quote:Originally posted by the-icon:
The thing about targetting a few players is it doesen't leave much room for error. Th is is what Sherman ran into. I kinda like making alot of picks because the draft is such a crapshoot and someone from a lower round ends up being a better player ala Mckenzie over Antuan Edwards.
That's all Sherman did vs. TT making his 1st big draft trade up in 4 years. He has stocked this team with starters and developmental guys. He sees something in Matthews that will help the transition to the 3-4.
Icon's equating TT's GM skills with Sherman's.
Please make him stop.
Please make him stop.
Why? Most of us are enjoying the laughs!
No! Encourage it! The more he bitches about the draft, the better these guys will be. Track record, folks. Steaming hot molten man love for Nall, Turd Ferguson, Abdul Hoge, et al. Pure hate for metrosexual CA surfer pricks like Rodgers. Get the HOF busts for Matthews and Raji ready right now.
quote:Originally posted by Hipp:
If that doesn't help, just go back to the last trade TT made with NE where he ended up with Jennings and Spitz and the perfect Bill Belichek ended up with Chad Jackson. Ask yourself who got the better end of that deal now that we've had a few years to look back on it. If you any synapses firing, you'll see that it is possible for the Pats to get the short end of the stick on draft day deals.
The Packers walked out of day 1 with 2 solid prospects at positions of need. What's not to like?
A few of us(JZ was with me on this)had an inside track on Greg Jennings and knew how good he was, but it was damn fun to see the majority of this board lose it over not taking Jackson.
I felt much better about Jennings than I do about Matthews, and the simple reason is that I saw Jennings play many times (due to MAC ties) but don't know much about Matthews other then highlights and that TT just paid a high bounty for him. Can't wait to see him play in a Packer uniform.
What's not to like ?
Thompson went and got a guy he felt strongly about. Great conviction !!!! I hope Matthews is special cause he cost the meat of our 09' draft. Only time will tell whether using a second round pick and two third round picks for one player is worth it.
quote:Originally posted by Hipp:
For all you people that bow at the Alter of the Trade Value Chart, just tell yourself that the Packers had to move up to #20 overall to get Matthews. That would satisfy the Holy Chart. Is he "a reach" at #20? Not from what I read pre-draft.
Where did you come up with this little bit of illogic? He was still available at 26, even if they had him rated higher doesn't mean they should give up more than to get the #26 pick.
Look at it this way: I want a newer car. My budget is $10K and I know exactly what I want. The I go to a dealer and find exactly what I want selling for $9K. Should I still give the dealer $10K because that's what I valued that car at?
TT paid a large premium for Matthews. I really wanted Matthews and didn't think there was any way they'd end up with both he and Raji which is great. But it was a lot to give up.
quote:Originally posted by JJSD:
No! Encourage it! The more he bitches about the draft, the better these guys will be. Track record, folks. Steaming hot molten man love for Nall, Turd Ferguson, Abdul Hoge, et al. Pure hate for metrosexual CA surfer pricks like Rodgers. Get the HOF busts for Matthews and Raji ready right now.
Regarding Rodgers' hometown of Chico, CA, I always forget about its legendary surfing scene.
(I live in Chico--it's like four hours inland!)
Everyone in CA is a surfer, who. We're also all gay and soft. It's just the way it is, according to Cpt. Worldview.
Getting close to the Packers 4th round pick. There are still some players available at need positions.
Jamon Meredith - OT
Lawrence Sidbury - DE
D.J. Moore - CB
? Shawn Nelson - TE
just to name a few
Jamon Meredith - OT
Lawrence Sidbury - DE
D.J. Moore - CB
? Shawn Nelson - TE
just to name a few
quote:TT paid a large premium for Matthews. I really wanted Matthews and didn't think there was any way they'd end up with both he and Raji which is great. But it was a lot to give up.
I'm only going to say this one last time.
The Pats were going to select Clay Matthews. TT talked them out of it with the extra 3rd.
If this guy plays 19 years in the league like his dad and uncle, nobody will think twice about the extra 3rd
Amen.
quote:Originally posted by Boris:quote:TT paid a large premium for Matthews. I really wanted Matthews and didn't think there was any way they'd end up with both he and Raji which is great. But it was a lot to give up.
I'm only going to say this one last time.
The Pats were going to select Clay Matthews. TT talked them out of it with the extra 3rd.
If this guy plays 19 years in the league like his dad and uncle, nobody will think twice about the extra 3rd
And people forget that we got a 5th back. This is not that big of a deal.
We would've had to have given up a 2nd and 3rd to get up there anyway. People are crying about the loss of two rounds. Big deal.
Your logic is circular. TT gave up so much New England was willing to bend. If they are the standard, how does giving up more than they value him not paying a lot?
At the end of the day I'm really happy to have Raji and Matthews, I just have a bit of sticker shock. Kind of like when you have a great steak and expecting the check to be $60 and it comes up $75. I still loved that steak.
At the end of the day I'm really happy to have Raji and Matthews, I just have a bit of sticker shock. Kind of like when you have a great steak and expecting the check to be $60 and it comes up $75. I still loved that steak.
These are the bluechippers you've wanted, Hersch.
You gotta pay sometimes.
You gotta pay sometimes.
Yeah, I'm definitely happy they got them, just a bit surprised at the price. In the end, it's all good.
quote:Look at it this way: I want a newer car. My budget is $10K and I know exactly what I want. The I go to a dealer and find exactly what I want selling for $9K. Should I still give the dealer $10K because that's what I valued that car at?
- 1 little problem with that analogy ... (In this draft)you don't own that right to that value, its an auction at that point for the right to that tremendous value.
And the thing about that auction at that point ... paying for that right may have more intrinsic value for 1 bidder than it would be for another!
I think the moment the Packers shifted to a 3-4 defense, a guy like Matthews became an almost perfect fit. Frankly, I actually think he's one of the safest picks in the draft for what the Packers need.
I didn't watch a ton of USC football last year, but my lasting memory after the Rose Bowl was that Matthews looked as good as anyone on that defense. And that was a defense that some pundits thought was one of the best college defenses they had ever seen. He's grown up in an NFL family and knows EXACTLY what it will take to succeed in the NFL.
I think there's only 2 things that will stop him from being very good. Obviously #1 is injury, and the second is, if the steroid rumors are true, then we have Tony Mandarich II. Hopefully the rumors are nothing but bunk, but you just never know....
I didn't watch a ton of USC football last year, but my lasting memory after the Rose Bowl was that Matthews looked as good as anyone on that defense. And that was a defense that some pundits thought was one of the best college defenses they had ever seen. He's grown up in an NFL family and knows EXACTLY what it will take to succeed in the NFL.
I think there's only 2 things that will stop him from being very good. Obviously #1 is injury, and the second is, if the steroid rumors are true, then we have Tony Mandarich II. Hopefully the rumors are nothing but bunk, but you just never know....
quote:Originally posted by Herschel:
Where did you come up with this little bit of illogic?
The same place that makes the trade value chart a holy document.
Round three
Pick # NFL Team Player Position College
65 San Francisco 49ers Frank Gore Running back Miami (FL)
66 St. Louis Rams (from Miami) Oshiomogho Atogwe Safety Stanford
67 Cleveland Browns Charlie Frye Quarterback Akron
68 Tennessee Titans Courtney Roby Wide Receiver Indiana
69 Oakland Raiders Andrew Walter Quarterback Arizona State
70 Miami Dolphins (from Chicago) Channing Crowder Linebacker Florida
71 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Alex Smith Tight End Stanford
72 Detroit Lions Stanley Wilson Cornerback Stanford
73 Houston Texans (from Dallas) Vernand Morency Running back Oklahoma State
74 New York Giants Justin Tuck Defensive End Notre Dame
75 Arizona Cardinals Eric Green Cornerback Virginia Tech
76 Denver Broncos (from Washington) Karl Paymah Cornerback Washington State
77 Philadelphia Eagles (from Kansas City) Ryan Moats Running back Louisiana Tech
78 Oakland Raiders (from Houston) Kirk Morrison Linebacker San Diego State
79 Carolina Panthers Evan Mathis Offensive Guard Alabama
80 Minnesota Vikings Dustin Fox Cornerback Ohio State
81 St. Louis Rams Richie Incognito Center Nebraska
82 New Orleans Saints Alfred Fincher Linebacker Connecticut
83 Cincinnati Bengals Chris Henry Wide Receiver West Virginia
84 New England Patriots (from Baltimore) Ellis Hobbs Cornerback Iowa State
85 Seattle Seahawks David Greene Quarterback Georgia
86 Buffalo Bills Kevin Everett Tight End Miami (FL)
87 Jacksonville Jaguars Scott Starks Cornerback Wisconsin
88 New York Jets Sione Pouha Defensive Tackle Utah
89 Carolina Panthers (from Green Bay) Atiyyah Ellison Defensive Tackle Missouri
â Denver Broncos Selection forfeited[8]
90 Atlanta Falcons Jordan Beck Linebacker Cal Poly
91 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (from San Diego) Chris Colmer Offensive Tackle NC State
92 Indianapolis Colts Vincent Burns Defensive End Kentucky
93 Pittsburgh Steelers Trai Essex Offensive Guard Northwestern
94 San Francisco 49ers (from Philadelphia) Adam Snyder Offensive Guard Oregon
95 Arizona Cardinals (from New England) Darryl Blackstock Linebacker Virginia
96 Tennessee Titans Brandon Jones Wide Receiver Oklahoma
97 Denver Broncos Domonique Foxworth Cornerback Maryland
98 Seattle Seahawks Leroy Hill Linebacker Clemson
99 Kansas City Chiefs Dustin Colquitt Punter Tennessee
100 New England Patriots Nick Kaczur Offensive Guard Toledo
101 Denver Broncos Maurice Clarett Running back Ohio State
That's the 3rd round from the 2005 draft. Look how many players from that draft made an impact, look how many are still around, and look how many were huge busts.
It's a third round pick, they aren't anything special 90% of the time.
Pick # NFL Team Player Position College
65 San Francisco 49ers Frank Gore Running back Miami (FL)
66 St. Louis Rams (from Miami) Oshiomogho Atogwe Safety Stanford
67 Cleveland Browns Charlie Frye Quarterback Akron
68 Tennessee Titans Courtney Roby Wide Receiver Indiana
69 Oakland Raiders Andrew Walter Quarterback Arizona State
70 Miami Dolphins (from Chicago) Channing Crowder Linebacker Florida
71 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Alex Smith Tight End Stanford
72 Detroit Lions Stanley Wilson Cornerback Stanford
73 Houston Texans (from Dallas) Vernand Morency Running back Oklahoma State
74 New York Giants Justin Tuck Defensive End Notre Dame
75 Arizona Cardinals Eric Green Cornerback Virginia Tech
76 Denver Broncos (from Washington) Karl Paymah Cornerback Washington State
77 Philadelphia Eagles (from Kansas City) Ryan Moats Running back Louisiana Tech
78 Oakland Raiders (from Houston) Kirk Morrison Linebacker San Diego State
79 Carolina Panthers Evan Mathis Offensive Guard Alabama
80 Minnesota Vikings Dustin Fox Cornerback Ohio State
81 St. Louis Rams Richie Incognito Center Nebraska
82 New Orleans Saints Alfred Fincher Linebacker Connecticut
83 Cincinnati Bengals Chris Henry Wide Receiver West Virginia
84 New England Patriots (from Baltimore) Ellis Hobbs Cornerback Iowa State
85 Seattle Seahawks David Greene Quarterback Georgia
86 Buffalo Bills Kevin Everett Tight End Miami (FL)
87 Jacksonville Jaguars Scott Starks Cornerback Wisconsin
88 New York Jets Sione Pouha Defensive Tackle Utah
89 Carolina Panthers (from Green Bay) Atiyyah Ellison Defensive Tackle Missouri
â Denver Broncos Selection forfeited[8]
90 Atlanta Falcons Jordan Beck Linebacker Cal Poly
91 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (from San Diego) Chris Colmer Offensive Tackle NC State
92 Indianapolis Colts Vincent Burns Defensive End Kentucky
93 Pittsburgh Steelers Trai Essex Offensive Guard Northwestern
94 San Francisco 49ers (from Philadelphia) Adam Snyder Offensive Guard Oregon
95 Arizona Cardinals (from New England) Darryl Blackstock Linebacker Virginia
96 Tennessee Titans Brandon Jones Wide Receiver Oklahoma
97 Denver Broncos Domonique Foxworth Cornerback Maryland
98 Seattle Seahawks Leroy Hill Linebacker Clemson
99 Kansas City Chiefs Dustin Colquitt Punter Tennessee
100 New England Patriots Nick Kaczur Offensive Guard Toledo
101 Denver Broncos Maurice Clarett Running back Ohio State
That's the 3rd round from the 2005 draft. Look how many players from that draft made an impact, look how many are still around, and look how many were huge busts.
It's a third round pick, they aren't anything special 90% of the time.
quote:I didn't watch a ton of USC football last year, but my lasting memory after the Rose Bowl was that Matthews looked as good as anyone on that defense. And that was a defense that some pundits thought was one of the best college defenses they had ever seen. He's grown up in an NFL family and knows EXACTLY what it will take to succeed in the NFL.
He was an animal in that game
He also seemed to play his best against the best teams they played this past year
Something I wasn't aware of is that prior to this past year Matthews was viewed as a top notch special teams player as well. As rookies a lot of these guys are asked to play special teams, so he could help out in that area as well.
I had sticker shock as well, but in order to get this guy, we had to overpay to get the pick. Now we might have two starters for our D instead of one. We have enough developmental players in the fold right now, giving up these picks this year, in a weaker draft, makes a lot more sense than if we were rebuilding or if this was a stronger draft.
I can't wait to see these guys on the field.
As for the comment about Poppinga, his days are numbered. He's now officially overpaid as a back-up/special teams player. His coverage was never good, although he improved a bit last year, but from what I've read, you have to be able to cover as an OLB in this scheme.
I can't wait to see these guys on the field.
As for the comment about Poppinga, his days are numbered. He's now officially overpaid as a back-up/special teams player. His coverage was never good, although he improved a bit last year, but from what I've read, you have to be able to cover as an OLB in this scheme.
quote:Originally posted by Koopla Krash:
I'd like a chance to get Jamon Meredith or Troy Kropog - I'm pretty sure both would be upgrades over Tony Moll and would provide great competition for any of the other current options.
All good now, right?
quote:Originally posted by Koopla Krash:
I actually thought the Pack was trading up to draft Eben Britton.
I'd like a chance to get Jamon Meredith or Troy Kropog - I'm pretty sure both would be upgrades over Tony Moll and would provide great competition for any of the other current options. I also wouldn't mind being able to lock down the OG position with either Duke Robinson or Kraig Urbek.
wweeee I am Glad TT is running the show, he gets Meredith with a 5th and you wanted to spend a 2nd or 3rd
quote:Originally posted by PackerJoe:
#1 - He's a projection to OLB because he played DE during the one season he was a regular starter.
Come on, the guy played the elephant position at USC. Short of taking an outside linebacker from Virginia the projection doesn't get much more direct.
In a draft that wasn't too strong to begin with, I'm glad we traded up for another possible blue chipper than keep our picks to get three guys who are just...guys. How many teams are going to strike it rich in the third round, especially in this draft? I don't think it's too much to pay at all.
Value is relative.
Value is relative.
quote:Originally posted by PackerI:
But these facts are as follows:
Matthews was at USC for 5 years, played 4 years and redshirted 1 of those years.
In the four years that he played he started 12 games.
In the four years he played he totaled 5.5 sacks.
I see you're stuck on your stats again. I think you can't understand how much it takes to walk on to a program like USC and become a solid player. I don't understand why you can't show how many sacks he had as a starter. Is it because he put on weight and end up as a starter at LB in his senior year and tore it up?
quote:Originally posted by Herschel:
I still loved that steak.
Did you still bitch about the steak and the chef a year later? Considering the same chef served you up $55 steaks in the previous 4 years I figured you wouldn't get you sphincter shock after one move.
quote:Originally posted by Packdog:
A few of us(JZ was with me on this)had an inside track on Greg Jennings and knew how good he was, but it was damn fun to see the majority of this board lose it over not taking Jackson.
I was on the Juanny Zamboni/Packdog wagon when it came to Jennings and a overall fan of drafting guys that produced considering the previous "potential/tweener" regime.
Right LSUGB? I still got that soap handy.
Henry - it was pretty fun sparring with you. Maybe I should have used a different word than 'bare' - something like 'uncertain'. That said, you certainly can't disregard much of the premise behind my statement. If you call your opinions of roster listings at NFL.com and Packers.com, an article from Packer Update, and evidence TT has given Campen plenty of tools to work with as irrelvant, then I guess I concede that I was served a hearty, helpin' of facts. Campen hasn't impressed thus far and TT had already used up the first four bullets in the gun going into today. Then today, just when I thought TT couldn't possibly be any dumber, TT goes and makes his picks today....
My feelings about TT
My feelings about TT
So here is how the trade stacks up......
Clay Matthews LB and Jamon Meredith OT
for
Darius Butler CB UConn, Derick Cox DB William & Mary and Brandon Tate WR UNC.
Putting the names there makes the trade look a little better. Of course we will not really know until about 2 - 3 years from now.
Now I like it.
Clay Matthews LB and Jamon Meredith OT
for
Darius Butler CB UConn, Derick Cox DB William & Mary and Brandon Tate WR UNC.
Putting the names there makes the trade look a little better. Of course we will not really know until about 2 - 3 years from now.
Now I like it.
I believe Britton will be a very good player. I am as giddy as a school girl about getting Meredith. TT proved he is a master at this whole drafting thing. Simply amazing draft.
quote:Originally posted by Swany:
So here is how the trade stacks up......
Clay Matthews LB and Jamon Meredith OT
for
Darius Butler CB UConn, Derick Cox DB William & Mary and Brandon Tate WR UNC.
Putting the names there makes the trade look a little better. Of course we will not really know until about 2 - 3 years from now.
Now I like it.
Really like the Meredith choice. I am so over the whining about giving up the extra 3.
Brak loves him some large cocks...This is a Brak Cock lover special