... it was nice to see Davis make the easy play today. He could use a confidence builder like that after his brutal preseason.
QB doesn't trust him and that obviously matters a lot.
Per https://packerswire.usatoday.c...4-win-over-patriots/
"Bottom 5 PFF
1. TE Josiah Deguara: 41.6
2. WR Romeo Doubs: 52.6
3. LT David Bakhtiari: 55.4
4. TE Marcedes Lewis: 56.1
5. TE Tyler Davis: 58.1
Deguara produced a very poor run blocking grade over six snaps and didnât have a catch on three routes run."
TE Snaps = Robert Tonyan 32, Marcedes Lewis 31, Tyler Davis 21, Josiah Deguara 11.
Great to see Bobby T catch that TD like it was 2020, but the lack of production out of the rest of the TEs cannot be ignored given the amount of snaps they get.
At this point, Deguara is probably fellow 3rd round pick Amari Rodgers' biggest fan as it takes the spotlight off his own poor performance
We all saw last year just how crappy that TE group is when Tonyan isnât healthy. And Tonyan is not a great TE by any means, but heâs so much better than the rest of them itâs not even funny. At least Lewis can block but is almost nonexistent as a receiver at this point of his career.
Hopefully Deguara has saved up his money, his career as an NFL HB/TE is not going to last much longer.
TE needs to be relatively high on Gutey's list of needs.
@fightphoe93 posted:We all saw last year just how crappy that TE group is when Tonyan isnât healthy. And Tonyan is not a great TE by any means, but heâs so much better than the rest of them itâs not even funny. At least Lewis can block but is almost nonexistent as a receiver at this point of his career.
Hopefully Deguara has saved up his money, his career as an NFL HB/TE is not going to last much longer.
I said at the conclusion of the playoff loss last year that Deguara wouldn't be in the league much longer. Some laughed. He has been terrible since they drafted him.
@michiganjoe posted:TE needs to be relatively high on Gutey's list of needs.
Heard an interview with Andrew Brandt discussing this position last year, and he said it's pretty much consensus around the league the highest you consider drafting for the position is right around rounds 2/3. A TE taken in the 1st is essentially unheard of. And yes, that includes Kyle Pitts from Atlanta who was IIRC taken 4th overall a year ago. Pitts is good but is not a game changer and most teams would have taken another position that high.
Gute's taken 2 TE's right about where you'd think their worth is if you are making the position a priority: 3rd round.
Just sucks neither Sternberger or Deguara have panned out. I'd also be giving this position coach a long, hard look. Have to think he's not getting the most out of these guys either.
20 teams have stud tight endsâĶsome have 2.
We are not one of them.
I think they took Deguara because of that long play where he hustled down the field to make the tackle.
Not adequate reason. His first block ever in the NFL where he took out two Vikings was equally impressive.
Since then, almost nada.
@fightphoe93 posted:We all saw last year just how crappy that TE group is when Tonyan isnât healthy. And Tonyan is not a great TE by any means, but heâs so much better than the rest of them itâs not even funny. At least Lewis can block but is almost nonexistent as a receiver at this point of his career.
Hopefully Deguara has saved up his money, his career as an NFL HB/TE is not going to last much longer.
Tonyan seems to have almost no fast twitch muscles. You see it on the screens or short passes they throw to him. He'll stop to catch the ball and then it takes him a second or two to redirect his body to run forward. He's a great guy to have as your backup TE, but he doesn't have the athletic ability to be a top-tier guy. He's too small to be a really effective blocker. It's like having Bubba Franks minus 30 pounds. He provides nothing on special teams (1 snap this year).
Agree on DeGuara. There are guys just like him that are on practice squads throughout the league. Frankly, I didn't see any difference between him and Daffney (who Hackett put on the practice squad at Denver) except that Gutey invested a 3rd round pick on him.
M. Lewis is still a tremendous blocker in the run game, but at this point, he's just like having a backup tackle reporting as eligible on plays. He is no threat in the passing game, and as we saw in the last playoff game, he has limited ball security after the catch. He's played 107 snaps this year and has not been targeted once. I'm sure they'll run a couple of plays this year to break that tendency, but M. Lewis will just fall down after the catch.
They did prioritize bringing in new WRs albeit via the draft, so we need to be patient with them. But they did literally nothing to upgrade at TE, instead relying on a guy with limited athleticism to begin with coming off an ACL tear and one of the oldest position players in the league.
They should have cut bait on DeGuara in the off-season and tried to get better at the position. But now that he is a core special teams member and that is working, you value the continuity there.
@MichiganPacker posted:Tonyan seems to have almost no fast twitch muscles. You see it on the screens or short passes they throw to him. He'll stop to catch the ball and then it takes him a second or two to redirect his body to run forward. He's a great guy to have as your backup TE, but he doesn't have the athletic ability to be a top-tier guy. He's too small to be a really effective blocker. It's like having Bubba Franks minus 30 pounds. He provides nothing on special teams (1 snap this year).
Agree on DeGuara. There are guys just like him that are on practice squads throughout the league. Frankly, I didn't see any difference between him and Daffney (who Hackett put on the practice squad at Denver) except that Gutey invested a 3rd round pick on him.
M. Lewis is still a tremendous blocker in the run game, but at this point, he's just like having a backup tackle reporting as eligible on plays. He is no threat in the passing game, and as we saw in the last playoff game, he has limited ball security after the catch. He's played 107 snaps this year and has not been targeted once. I'm sure they'll run a couple of plays this year to break that tendency, but M. Lewis will just fall down after the catch.
They did prioritize bringing in new WRs albeit via the draft, so we need to be patient with them. But they did literally nothing to upgrade at TE, instead relying on a guy with limited athleticism to begin with coming off an ACL tear and one of the oldest position players in the league.
They should have cut bait on DeGuara in the off-season and tried to get better at the position. But now that he is a core special teams member and that is working, you value the continuity there.
Even though Tonyan isn't great, he's by far our best receiver at the TE position and I hope they extend him. It's been a real struggle to find a decent TE. See Martellus Bennett, Jimmy Graham, and Jared Cook-although I wish we would have extended Cook as he was by far the best of the bunch.
YeaâĶ it was kind of a head scratcher when they let Cook walk.
Deguara offers little in the passing game and I guess I havenât noticed him much blocking out there either but that can be somewhat easy to miss.
GB struggles mightily in the 3rd round.
@YATittle posted:I think they took Deguara because of that long play where he hustled down the field to make the tackle.
Not adequate reason. His first block ever in the NFL where he took out two Vikings was equally impressive.
Since then, almost nada.
I thought the original plan was for Deguara to be MLF's HB/Kyle Juszczyk, but there is no indication of him being used in that way at all at this point.
Deguara is too undersized to be much of a blocker or a receiving threat at TE, so I guess he has just settled into TE4 behind even Tyler Davis.
Deguara has been more productive than Jace Sternberger, so there's that.
@SteveLuke posted:I thought the original plan was for Deguara to be MLF's HB/Kyle Juszczyk, but there is no indication of him being used in that way at all at this point.
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.
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I thought the same, I guess it didn't turn out that way.
I was just thinking, maybe we could compose a package trade deal. A 2 for 1, of Amari and Deguara for a Ist or a player deal. Soon!
But seriously I like Bennet and don't think he has been targeted too much yet. He had some fine catches the last couple of years and he still is a damn good blocker.
Tonyan has some great hands and is just shaking off that ACL. I wouldn't give up on him either. Not yet. Way down the list.
And if I could've picked a TE like Kyle Pitts a few years back, with a 1st I used for someone else, I think I would be a happier camper with our TEs this year.
@The Grinder posted:Tonyan has some great hands and is just shaking off that ACL. I wouldn't give up on him either. Not yet. Way down the list.
@SteveLuke posted:I thought the original plan was for Deguara to be MLF's HB/Kyle Juszczyk, but there is no indication of him being used in that way at all at this point.
Playing Jones and Dillon in the same set has totally negated any role for him. I honestly forgot about him being on the team. Win some, lose some.
Unless it's 3rd round picks. Then it's lose some, lose some more.
5 snaps out of 71 for Josiah during yesterday's offensive masterpiece against the Jets.
Lots of folks noticed Gutey's 2019 3rd round whiff on Jace Sternberger and plenty take issue with his 2021 3rd rounder Amari Rodgers, but let's not overlook 2020 3rd rounder Degaura who is giving them both a run for their money over who can have the least productive Packer career.
Josiah Deguara: 82.0 (High Quality)
That's his PFF grade. Not certain his limited snaps reflect what he's doing when given the opportunities.
He's not flashy, but what I've seen from him this season is dependability. He's doing his job more consistently it seems.
TE snap counts against the Commanders: Tonyan 30, Lewis 23, Davis 11, Degaura 7.
5 catches for 56 yards through 7 games for Degaura.
Either MLF is intentionally sabotaging Gute's 2020 3rd round pick or he doesn't think much of Josiah's play.
@H5 posted:He's not flashy, but what I've seen from him this season is dependability. He's doing his job more consistently it seems.
He's consistently average and assignment sure. He is the type of guy who is a fringe roster player and practice squad filler. The problem is not that he's on the team, but that he was drafted in the third round. He's exactly what the scouting reports on him before the draft said. He's a high-effort guy with limited athleticism. I think this scouting report captures it best.
https://dairylandexpress.com/2...back-josiah-deguara/
Tony Pauline â Pro Football Network
âDeguara was a consistent tight end for Cincinnati, and despite being graded as a street free agent entering the season, he now ranks as a potential late-round pick. He lacks great upside but possesses all the tools necessary to make an NFL roster as a third tight end.â
A lot of reports suggested the Packers saw him as an H-Back when they drafted him. I think it may be the organizational schizophrenia that's happened since the 2020 draft that has affected that plan. In that draft, the Packers drafted a project QB in the first round, a power RB in the 2nd round, and an H-Back in the third. None of them are good fits with the offense that optimizes Rodgers' talents. It's pretty obvious MLF/Gutey planned to run the SF/Garoppalo offense when Rodgers departed and thought that would be by now. Dillon is a contributor, but he's not anywhere near Jones' level and Jones needs more snaps as it is. Love and DeGuara are square pegs with no obvious role. Instead of moving on and getting something for either or them in terms of a draft pick or a contributing veteran, they hold onto them for the future.
Good leadership realizes they need to change plans when circumstances dictate it and Rodgers' resurgence the last two years certainly dictated that. But instead of going with that, the front office seems to still be building a Jordan Love-like future team with many of their decisions while trying to maintain a Rodgers-led offense that is almost talentless at WR/TE to be able to play. a downfield passing game. DeGuara has no value unless he was going to play H-Back. Love has given you nothing for three years. Their OL is a mix of power blocking or mauler types and finesse pass blockers. Nothing fits together well.
Help is not on the way. The players we have on the team simply need to play better. Perhaps Degura is being misused but itâs the rest of the offense that needs to step up. If they were successful then I suspect that they would use him more.
Help is not on the way.
Glenn Shorrock version was the best.
@YATittle posted:What the hell is Gute doing?
Degaura lacked the requisite height and speed to become a legitimate NFL TE, but the fact he never developed into even a competent blocker is what really takes the cake.
https://www.packersnews.com/st...keaways/71537533007/
In about 3 months, when Degaura is seeking a vet-minimum contract as a camp body to squeeze the last $ out of his NFL career, someone is going to cite Josiah lasting 4 years in Green Bay as "proof" that he was a worthy draft pick.
In reality, YA and many others were spot on when they immediately questioned the pick when it was made.
Good to see Kraft starting to get nearly all of Degaura's snaps (he played 5 on offense yesterday in addition to his noteworthy STs contribution) and here's hoping Tucker turns out to be the superior 3rd round pick.
Here's a good view of the XP block. Guy would have been gone long ago if the organization didn't have a third-rounder invested in him.
Degaura should be flipping greasy burgers after that pitiful attempt at a block on that XP!
@michiganjoe posted:Here's a good view of the XP block. Guy would have been gone long ago if the organization didn't have a third-rounder invested in him.
Bloody f'in Hell that's bad.
quite possibly the most incredibly sorry ass thing I have witnessed all week.
God, I swear this guy couldn't do much less to keep his spot on the roster. Once every few games he makes a play. Other than that the only time you notice him is when he fucks up badly.
@PackerHawk posted:God, I swear this guy couldn't do much less to keep his spot on the roster. Once every few games he makes a play. Other than that the only time you notice him is when he fucks up badly.
Degaura has done zero to "earn" or keep a roster spot.
There are 3 rookie TEs who can easily absorb his snaps in this "experimental" season.
There is no role for Degaura in Green Bay in 2024 and he won't be on the roster in a few weeks.
The Packers don't operate this way and won't do this, but I saw someone else post that Jimmy Johnson would cut him today to send a locker room message and let this young team know this is a rough business and you either produce or get gone.
Deguara made the team simply because he was the only veteran TE they had. His only role is as a blocker and he has failed miserably at that, not just the XP. With Kraft, Musgrave, Sims, and possibly Davis in camp next season Deguara has no chance of making the final 53. If they they're keeping him around as an H back it's been a fail and they should just get a FB that can block.
@SteveLuke posted:Degaura has done zero to "earn" or keep a roster spot.
There are 3 rookie TEs who can easily absorb his snaps in this "experimental" season.
There is no role for Degaura in Green Bay in 2024 and he won't be on the roster in a few weeks.
The Packers don't operate this way and won't do this, but I saw someone else post that Jimmy Johnson would cut him today to send a locker room message and let this young team know this is a rough business and you either produce or get gone.
THIS
Maybe Deguara shouldnât be seeing any meaningful snaps, but itâs possible he brings something to the locker room, film room, practices, etc. Last year many posters wanted to jettison Watkins and Cobb for lack of productivity. This year, many wish the Packers had veteran leadership in the WR room.
I thought Sims was supposed to be the blocker-type TE? It looks like Deguara forgot the snap count and with his positioning, he can't see the rest of the line move on the snap. It's inexcusable. It also looks like Walker was on skates backwards and if the outside guy hadn't blocked it, Walker's guy had a good shot at doing so. No excuse for Deguara, and Walker's got to realize that this is the NFL and extra points are not the gimmes they are in college. The botched XP was a definite factor in the way the rest of the game played out.
@Packiderm posted:Degaura should be flipping greasy burgers after that pitiful attempt at a block on that XP!
I'm sure there's somebody out there with a successful tire store willing to hire him.