they were never as bad talent wise as they showed via production on the field.
That's the argument right there, GD. When a running QB is killing you by running, what should you do? Keep the game plan status quo or {gulp} CHANGE WHAT YOU'RE DOING!!!!
After one of the San Fran games though, they showed the defense was lined up properly to stop Kaepernick and the read option but the players simply and continually failed to carry out their assignments. And then there was the next game. And the next. Be it Walden, Burnett, Hawk, Hyde, etc. the defenders have been in position to make plays and just fail to do so year-after-year.
Capers, Moss, Whitt, Trgovac and Perry are supposedly very well-respected coaches in the league as well.
That indicates the talent just isn't there, nor has it really been. 2010 was a "lightning in a bottle" run.
So 2010, the players were talented enough but the players can't catch "lightning in a bottle" again.
Last year the safeties were the major problem. That's been resolved this year.
The defense needs to consistently keep teams under 17 points for Dom to redeem himself from the last 3 seasons. I don't think he can do it
What about the guy for Seattle?
He's won an SB by doing more in the area of acquiring players outside of the draft. Harvin and Lynch to name a couple.
Can't we all agree that one of the reasons SEA has been able to acquire big FA's, and has won recently, is that they are getting All-Pro talent at 6th and 7th round salaries. Any team that has All-Pro (not pro bowler), the best at the position, and getting paid 1M, is going to have 5-10M more to spend on other "priorities". Let's see how SEA does, when they have to spend on Wilson, Wagner, Chancellor, etc.
Counting on catching that streak at the right time again is a fool's errand. It's not that they're not close, there are just gaping holes. Howard Green was a very fortuitous, short-term signing for them. Can you really expect to sign a scrap heap guy 3/4 of teh way through the season each year who will play very solid ball as a main contributor down the stretch.
The safety play has been better, and Peppers has helped the pass rush, but there are still glaring holes at ILB and on the D-line. That's a recipe for disaster against teams like Seattle and even San Fran still.
Heck, even if you believe in drafting teh "Best Player Available" at every spot, chances are you're going to end up overstocked at a couple of spots and severely understocked at a couple of others. If you can't fill those holes via the draft, how then do you fill them?
Chancellor is locked up for a while.
KJ Wright, Carpenter, Avril, Malcom Smith, Byron Maxwell need to get paid after this year. So does Russell Wilson.
Next year it's Okung, Turbin, Wagner, Irvin, Mebane, McDaniel, Sweezy, and Lynch.
Unless Lynch and Harvin agree to restructured deals after this year there is a chance both might be shown the door. The two of them combined are going to be close to $20 million towards the cap next year.
Seattle le has some creative cap work ahead if they want this train to keep rolling.
When do you tip your hat to the other team and say, their players are better or have a better "scheme"? Could Compers have switched in the SF game to stop CK? He tells CMIII, I want you to hit CK all the time, and he can't get outside you. CK fakes the ball to Gore, CMIII, bites, and CK is gone. It's obviously CMIII's fault, but now the next posesssion, CMIII doesn't fall for it, and Gore takes it for a 30 yard gain.
Point being, any adjustments that the Packers made weren't going to work, since the SF players were better than our players. Now, you can argue, that the whole should have been better, but when you deploy 2-3 people to stop one of theirs, that leaves major holes elsewhere.
Some will argue that MD Jennings or Hawk or Zombo should be able to contain and stop CK. The fact is that most of our guys on D are UDFA, late round picks or 7 years vets, while CK is a 2nd round pick. He has more talent and is more athletic than our players, it's not a dig on our players, but another team has a better player.
It's no different from other teams saying, why is Jordy eating us alive, why don't we just stop him, it's because he is more athletic, stronger, faster, than the CB's, and DB's, he's going up against, and as Packer fans we'd be pissed off as hell, if he were taken down by UDFA safety, or 7th Round CB, time after time.
Chancellor is locked up for a while.
KJ Wright, Carpenter, Avril, Malcom Smith, Byron Maxwell need to get paid after this year. So does Russell Wilson.
Next year it's Okung, Turbin, Wagner, Irvin, Mebane, McDaniel, Sweezy, and Lynch.
Unless Lynch and Harvin agree to restructured deals after this year there is a chance both might be shown the door. The two of them combined are going to be close to $20 million towards the cap next year.
Seattle le has some creative cap work ahead if they want this train to keep rolling.
I didn't realize that Chancellor was locked up, he IMO, is the lynch pin back there, two All Pro Safety's.
But you and I both know that there is no way for them to keep those players, so we'll see how good their draft and develop strategy is, or if they continue to plug holes through FA.
The defense needs to consistently keep teams under 17 points for Dom to redeem himself from the last 3 seasons. I don't think he can do it
I don't think 17 pts is a viable number in the new NFL.
From 2010- 2013 there were only 2, 3 or 4 teams that kept opponents at or below 17 points for the entire season.
So you are saying Dom needs to produce a top 4 defense... or else.
That's not rooted in reality, so its not helping your case.
Perhaps if we begin with more realistic goals in mind, we can begin to make educated guesses about the Packers defense (or lack thereof)
They are currently top 10 in points given up after delivering the following sequence of scores to their recent opponents: 36,24,19,17 and 10.
Pretty much exactly the trend you'd hope to see after an offseason of changes in scheme & personnel.
The Dom may or may not suck, you guys are just really crappy at making your arguments. 
If GB can stay close to their current pts/game of 21.2 for the balance of 2014 I'd take it and be damn happy.
Not easy to average 21 pts allowed anymore though.
Just for ****s and giggles. In 2002 9 of the top 20 QBs completed 62% or more of their passes. So far in 2014 only 3 of the top 20 are below 62%. And only one QB in the to 20 is below 60%. Take a bow Nick Foles.
Just a different NFL.
The defense needs to consistently keep teams under 17 points for Dom to redeem himself from the last 3 seasons. I don't think he can do it
I don't think 17 pts is a viable number in the new NFL.
From 2010- 2013 there were only 2, 3 or 4 teams that kept opponents at or below 17 points for the entire season.
So you are saying Dom needs to produce a top 4 defense... or else.
That's not rooted in reality, so its not helping your case.
Perhaps if we begin with more realistic goals in mind, we can begin to make educated guesses about the Packers defense (or lack thereof)
They are currently top 10 in points given up after delivering the following sequence of scores to their recent opponents: 36,24,19,17 and 10.
Pretty much exactly the trend you'd hope to see after an offseason of changes in scheme & personnel.
The Dom may or may not suck, you guys are just really crappy at making your arguments.
DEREK SHERROD
right gang?
They are ranked 10 in points per game. Disregarding small sample issues (including inability to make apples to apples comparisons at this point) I am thrilled with that. On the other hand, they are 22 in yards per game. I suspect that will normalize one way or the other over time. Either the defense is good, the point per game will stay in the top 3rd of the league and they will stop giving up so many yards, or they will continue to give up yards at a high clip and the points per game will go up. Maybe they will be that "bend but don't break" defense (maybe...).
Your sequence of scores point really doesn't mean much unless the opponents are in some way equal, they are not. I suspect if they played the APless, Ponder lead Vikings in week one they would have crushed them, and would have given up a pile of points to Seattle this past week. Be careful with 3 game trends in the NFL.
I would hope that Dom could elevate the defense year after year, it would be the sign of a really good coach. He didn't do that. I hope to see a trend of keeping opposing teams out of the endzone, I don't think there is evidence out there that we can count on it.
No washed balls. Never claimed you were pining for Thompson to go nuts.
Ok fine. the new NFL magic number is 20 then. Whatever. I still don't think he can do it, no matter what the defense has done the last 3 weeks.
I'm excellent at making an argument. I've had quite enough of the Packers coaching staff (MM included) using September as their personal extended pre-season to "get the team ready."
Continue playing winning football like they have done the last 2 weeks & I'll get off Dom's back. Until then, he sucks & needs to keep proving it.
I'm concerned about our DL & ILB's. Neither group has what it takes to play consistently, solid, winning football. Prove me wrong
they are 22 in yards per game.
8th in yards per play allowed
Offensive efficiency is giving the other team more opportunities, yet scoring D, as noted, ranks in the top 10. With more than 25% of the season complete, that's a good sample size.
RODGERS: “Last game, we had zero drives of 10 plays or more. Over the years, we’ve had 2, 3, 4, 5.”
Forcing punts helps that out.
Great point. We all want the Offense to score, and right now, they are a quick strike Offense, hopefully the running game will pick up, to where the offense chews up some more clock, thereby not allowing the opposing teams with extra offensive opportunities.
"I don't think 17 pts is a viable number in the new NFL. Perhaps if we begin with more realistic goals in mind,"
Agreed. Lets look at our playoff losses and see what the goal should be.
2010 - 45 vs 51 points
2012 - 20 vs 37 points
2013 - 31 vs 45 points
2014 - 20 vs 23 points
Alright, looks like the magic number is 20. If we hold teams to under 20 we have a very high probability of winning the Super Bowl. That should be the goal.
NFL play clock is 40 seconds. Average play is probably 6-7 seconds. The highest theoretical drive total while maximizing time usage is 40 plays (starting at the 1, 4 plays to cover exactly 10 yards) with no penalties.
This means the opening drive would end around the 7 before halftime. It would take 31.33 minutes to complete a drive with Max Q possession values. 90 plus yard drive for zero points and you kick to open the second half.
My my point is either time of possession is overrated or AJ Hawk sucks.
It seems to me the D philosophy for this team it to ride the coattail of the offense.
They know they can't stop the run so they don't even try. They hope the offense can get a lead and force the team to abandon the run instead of being able to do so themselves. When we get into tight games, this is a back breaker. Teams can and have just controlled the clock for the last 5 minutes of the game to end it.
The D needs to be able to stand on it's own. It can't.
I do, just not the defense he wants to run. But I do believe there have been enough good players on the defensive side of the ball. Stubborn and trust, it's a recurring theme.
And this is my biggest thing. It's the inflexibility. It's taking half a season to realize a player doesn't fit. It's slow, sluggish reactions. You have mediocre players then get your wizard cap out and scheme up a FEASIBLE defensive plan with the talent you have. Square peg, round hole syndrome.
I guess my biggest problem with this entire thread is the idea that MM only becomes a complete HC if he cans Gompers.
I don't believe that, and never will. He has been, is, and will remain a great head coach, in my opinion.
I gotta say, you re-sign Cullen Jenkins, we're not even talking about this. Unintended consequences.
So, yes, Ted Thompson is completely inept. If not for not re-signing Jenkins, then for keeping McCarthy, who refuses to fire Gompers.
YAC.
injustice
Lone (in) Justice.
Great band for about 2 years.
I guess my biggest problem with this entire thread is the idea that MM only becomes a complete HC if he cans Gompers.
That isn't my point at all. It's the whole of MM taking it to another level with Compers by leading. MM is a solid coach but it has appeared to be a hands off approach on defense and it hasn't fared very well.
The whole point is if MM/TT/Compers/Flounder/Epic Beard Asst HC can actually continue to grow instead of going dormant. In essence to stop The Norvening/Capering/Loviefyin'.
The NFC Championship groin kick of 2007.
The 16 game rubicon of 2008.
The mildly intriguing resurgence of 2009 with an impossible to ignore background that this could be a good team but holy crap do they give up yards and points at a furious clip.
The first 6 weeks of 2010 with an inconsistent mashup of good play and staggeringly bad defense giving up an average of 400 yards per game to the likes of crappy offenses like Detroit, Washington, and Miami in weeks 3 through 6. Then came October 24 and Green Bay once again gave up well over 400 yards but greased out a win over Minny.
I think many felt the same way about Green Bay in the middle of October 2010 that they do about GB nearing the mid point of October 2014.
Who knows how this year is playing out.
I agree with the last sentence which is why I'm going to enjoy each game with equal relish. But if I'm a bettin' man, based on the last 4 years, I don't think there is going to be some defensive inferno taking place that can push the Packers past the likes of Seattle to get to and win the Superbowl. I mean it's win the NFC, Superbowl is gravy with the stinkin' AFC.
But then again, any given Sunday.
31 % of the season is complete and the Packers defense is nestled happily between Seattle and San Francisco in points given up on the season
If you look at the last 3 games only, they are even higher. Enjoy the increasing sample size, this is not the same defensive players/scheme the Packers used in previous years.
That wasn't working anymore.
http://www.teamrankings.com/nf...nent-points-per-game
PPG is the only stat IMO that should ultimately matter with regard to defense. I don't care about total yards, amount of sacks, etc.
This one and opposing QB rating (including differential between AR and his opposing QB) you can link back to teams who make it deep in the playoffs and who goes to the SB.
So far GB is looking good in both categories. Now let's see if it lasts..
I do not believe this GB roster, today, is capable of going to SF or Seattle in January and win.
I did not believe the GB roster, on October 7th 2010, was capable of going to New Orleans, Atlanta, or NY in January and winning either. Ok, maybe Atlanta.... But you get my point.
Every game should be enjoyed with equal relish, my man.
Every single game, whether it proves me right or wrong, whether it makes my week or ruins my month, whatnot.
Enjoy, with relish.
Mostly because we're not the Minnesota Vikings.
My God. Can you imagine?
quote:Every game should be enjoyed with equal relish, my man.
I enjoy the games. I enjoy talking about the games.
Fedya is a moron
That's not something for you to determine, sorry.
The empirical evidence simply doesn't add up.
phaedrus, please chime in...is chow-chow relish, and, if it is, how is it not un-awful?
In summary.
TT can't draft DL or ILB to save his life but has been stellar on offense and CB. He has been about a B grade GM.
Please give me the names of all the grade A GMs in todays NFL.
Originally Posted by Brak:
Mostly because we're not the Minnesota Vikings.
My God. Can you imagine?
Been there, done that. It was called 1975- 1988.
