The Packers should offer amnesty to Viking fans for a limited time. Simply renounce the Vikings, pay the fee, and get through the hazing process to become an official Packer fan.
Except that makes the fatal assumption the Vikings fans are otherwise decent, considerate, kind, intelligent individuals.
While certainly those are represented somewhere amongst that fan base, far far too many are complete jags in life who follow a team filled with a long storied history of misery, squalor, and bitterness that mimics their own sorry lives.
These are the same people you come across in life who no matter how well things might be going focus primarily on:
And if you're smart, those are the same ones you swiftly cut out of your life.
Originally Posted by Dr._Bob:
The Packers should offer amnesty to Viking fans for a limited time. Simply renounce the Vikings, pay the fee, and get through the hazing process to become an official Packer fan.
So kind of like the Inquisition.
Originally Posted by Hungry5:
they are 22 in yards per game.
8th in yards per play allowed
That would suggest that they can't get off the field on 3rd down.
Originally Posted by Henry:
I mean it's win the NFC, Superbowl is gravy with the stinkin' AFC.
But then again, any given Sunday.
Compers vs. Peyton Manning and the Broncos he rode in on would be painful to watch.
Originally Posted by ammo:
Originally Posted by BrainDed:
In summary.
TT can't draft DL or ILB to save his life but has been stellar on offense and CB. He has been about a B grade GM.
Please give me the names of all the grade A GMs in todays NFL.
I don't know, Schneider has been good but the hard times are coming. I do know I can't give TT an A. When Arod went down we were a 500 team at best. He has made some really poor choices in resigning Hawk, Jones and possibly Burnett. (Had a great game last week but that's been far and few between) Think about who the team could have landed with all that cash.
He does a lot of things good, I'm certainty not calling for his head, but he doesn't walk on water like some people seem to believe.
So, there are 32 GMs in the NFL and 1 might get an A grade. Wow.
Resigning Hawk, B.Jones, and Burnett did not stop the Packers from signing any other players.
if Burnett can have another game like the last one he'll have poked his head out of the doghouse. stack those successes baby!
Originally Posted by Dr._Bob:
The Packers should offer amnesty to Viking fans for a limited time. Simply renounce the Vikings, pay the fee, and get through the hazing process to become an official Packer fan.
No thanks. There are already enough fairweather/sky is falling/Farb Packer fans.
Originally Posted by Brak:
phaedrus, please chime in...is chow-chow relish, and, if it is, how is it not un-awful?
Well, Brak, here's some thought-streaming...
Disagree a bit with packerboi on QB rating allowed when a D is getting gashed with the run as the Pack sometimes has.
Aren't the Packers +6 in TO differential? My guess the offense has much to say about that, having few TO's, and I did hear once that forced TO's can be misleading. Like often an anomaly and it can even out some. In other words, points and yards allowed may be helped by a TO metric that may not stay at the same level.
I said it before and I still tend to think that Capers schemes are such that if he has really good players across the board, his defense performs better than it would with most any other coordinator, but if the personnel is weak in a few areas, it performs worse than with most any other coordinator.
So, I am concerned about that and DL, ILB the latter which of course, we all seem to be.
Originally Posted by Hungry5:
Resigning Hawk, B.Jones, and Burnett did not stop the Packers from signing any other players.
I don't follow your logic. Why not? Are we going to leave the roster 3 players short? That coin couldn't be used to lock up more deserving players?
The money spent on those three has not stopped the Packers from signing (Peppers) or re-signing (Nelson) players and will not keep them from locking up other deserving players like Cobb.
Speaking of defense...
Julius Peppers, your NFC defensive player of the week. It's his 6th such award, and his first with the Packers.
Originally Posted by Hungry5:
The money spent on those three has not stopped the Packers from signing (Peppers) or re-signing (Nelson) players and will not keep them from locking up other deserving players like Cobb.
Obviously...
It could have been used for Jenkins. It could have been used on 50 or so other FA's. Arguing that spending that money didn't prohibit them from spending it somewhere else is, well, ludicrous.
Of course they would have spent it somewhere else. Either retaining players or attracting FA's.
Jenkins? Really? The 2010 version of Cullen Jenkins hasn't appeared since, 2010.
They spent money on FA's and retained players... so where is the ludicrousness of that?
"They spent money on FA's and retained players... so where is the ludicrousness of that?"
I feel this argument is getting circular now. Yes, they spent the money on FA's retaining players. 3 of those players are the ones I pointed to as poor choices and suggested the money could be spent on other players.
Your response was that the money spent "has not stopped the Packers from signing (Peppers) or re-signing (Nelson) players and will not keep them from locking up other deserving players like Cobb"
It's really simple logic. If that money still existed, it could, and would, have been used on other assets. Like a free agent or extending an existing player.
I don't recall the LB and DL free agents over the past 3 years off the top of my head, but certainly there were better options available for the money that we spent on Hawk / Jones / Guion.
Originally Posted by El-Ka-Bong:
I want a guy who makes the unit better than you would expect with the talent on the field. I do feel that should be distributed, head coach, GM and assistants, but I guess I focus on Dom for two reasons: they have been bad for a while now, and I think they were never as bad talent wise as they showed via production on the field.
I think every team wants that guy, I don't think there are many that exist though and the ones who do exist are either solidified as HC's (like Belichick) or don't get away from their team (Dick LeBeau). If you can't get a DC that can do more with less talent then the easy answer is to find more talent and get a DC who can use them properly. I think we have a DC who can use talent, but he's not the only one obviously. Rather than try and find some rare DC who can do more with less, we should just focus on getting more talent and find that DC who is smart enough to use what he has.
I don't think we will ever agree that we had enough talent the last 4 years. I don't think Dom is a genius, but I don't blame him for the struggles. He's been far from perfect, but I do think he's a guy you can win with. Ultimately if McCarthy does decide to move on then I think Rex Ryan should be the primary target as I think his days in NY are over unless they make the playoffs.
Green Bay's not big enough for Rex's big head, or his big appetite for that matter
"Rather than try and find some rare DC who can do more with less, we should just focus on getting more talent and find that DC who is smart enough to use what he has."
Why is it either or? Shouldn't the org strive for both instead of settling for who you just admitted is a dime a dozen?
They should, but like I said guys who can truly do more with less are rare and aren't usually available. It's more realistic to find talent and then find a DC who can use what he has. That's what Seattle and San Fran are doing...Dan Quinn and Vic Fangio aren't genius DC's, but they're smart enough to use the talent they have.
Honestly if we had two stud MLBs then I think most DC's could find success. Ray Lewis went through multiple DC's and made all of them look like geniuses. Vic Fangio has a pretty up and down history as a DC, but once he got a hold of Pat Willis and Navarro Bowman he suddenly looked much better. That's the foundation for a great defense, always has been always will be. Hell Sean McDermott got run out of Philly immediately and now that he has Dan Connor he's suddenly a great DC!
Hawk (3 yrs, $10.6mm, $4.8mm signing bonus) and Jones (3 yrs, $11.25, $3mm signing bonus) were extended in 2013.
Notable FAs of 2013 - who do you get with that $7.8mm of signing bonus and $21.8mm over 3 years?
S Dashon Goldson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Five years, $41.25M, $22M guaranteed
S LaRon Landry, Colts (four years, $24M)
OLB Paul Kruger, Cleveland Browns - Five years, $40.5M, $20M guaranteed
TE Jared Cook, Rams - Five years, $35.1M, $19M guaranteed
MLB Dannell Ellerbe, Dolphins - Five years, $35M, $17M guaranteed
OLB Connor Barwin, Philadelphia Eagles (six years, $36M)
WR Mike Wallace, Miami Dolphins - Five years, $60M, $30M guaranteed
WR Greg Jennings, Minnesota Vikings - Five years, $45M, $17.8M guaranteed
LT Jake Long, St. Louis Rams - Four years, $34M, $16M guaranteed
LG Andy Levitre, Tennessee Titans - Six years, $46.8M, $16M guaranteed
LT Jermon Bushrod, Chicago Bears - Five years, $35.96M, $17.71M guaranteed
OL Gosder Cherilus, Indianapolis Colts - Five years, $35M, $16.5M guaranteed
Browns DE Desmond Bryant (five years, $34M)
Seattle Seahawks DE Cliff Avril (two years, $13M)
Denver Broncos WR Wes Welker (two years, $12M)
Broncos G Louis Vasquez (four years, $23.5M)
New England Patriots WR Danny Amendola (five years, $28.44M)
I don't recall the LB and DL free agents over the past 3 years off the top of my head, but certainly there were better options available for the money that we spent on Hawk / Jones / Guion.
In 2014...
Karlos Dansby (32 yo) signed for $24mm w/ $10mm in the first year and $14mm guaranteed
Daryl Smith (32 yo) signed for $16.1mm w/ $3.5mm signing bonus
Arthur Jones got $33mm over 5 years
There were players out there, but most resigned with their previous team.
The only guy on that list I would have liked to see in GB would be Dansby. About 2 years sooner though.
Look at all the FA safeties that have been paid wild scratch over the past two years. Byrd, Goldson, Whitner, TJ Ward. I think Ward is enjoying moderate success in Denver. I'm perfectly fine with Ha Ha and couldn't be happer TT didn't hit the S FA panic button.
Need a nasty ass ILB with speed and this defense is instantly legitimate.
Reuniting Clay with Rey Maualuga would be pretty neat.
Banardrick McKinney out of Mississippi State.
Stephone Anthony out of Clemson
Ramik Wilson out of Georgia
Trey DePriest out of Alabama
Denzel Perryman out of Miami
Eric Kendricks out of UCLA
The next great GB ILB is in that group.
AJ Johnson out of Tennessee is also a possible 1st rounder but I'd spoon Vince Wilfork before I'd watch another AJ play LB for the Packers.
"There were players out there, but most resigned with their previous team."
I'd have to see the whole list of unrestricted if you are asking for my specific opinion of who. The point remains, I'm positive that 27 million could have been used more productively. This isn't a case of Monday morning QB'ing either. A lot of people have been down on Hawk since about his 3rd year in the league and a lot of people were scratching their head at the Jones extension.
Do you think Jones and Hawk are worth the salary they were awarded?
Jones no, Hawk yes.
Neither are that expensive though.
In hindsight, everything could have been done better.
In the case of ILB and D-line, so could it in foresight.
In the case of a guy like Dansby, he's been available a couple of time while the Packers have been rather desperate at ILB. He got a two-year deal. If you strike lightning in the draft, you have two starters, if you don't, you move one suck off the field.
The guy he replaced, D'Qwell Jackson, isn't as versatile as Dansby, but he's a far sight better than the schlubs Green Bay is lining up. He has 38 tackles, a couple of sacks and a forced fumble for Indy so far on what's essentially a two-year deal and could be gotten out of after one in case of disaster.
Originally Posted by Hungry5:
Jones no, Hawk yes.
Neither are that expensive though.
Yes, Hawk as well. We caught a lot of flak for voicing that opinion, but we existed. Typically our opinion was met with the "coaches know best" and "QB's the D" arguments.
Available & Accountable.
Doesn't help if the FA you pickup gets hurt (Dansby) even if he was cheap(er) than normal.
It also doesn't help if they suck. Available and accountable to suck still sucks.
Look, we just plugged in a Undrafted FA to replace Jones who was awarded a nice contract. Play hasn't dropped. Even if there wasn't a play maker at that position available, why waste the resources on suck?
If this was baseball, these guys are negative WAR, essentially replaceable by anyone, but getting paid well because they play CF.
Jones should've have never been moved inside.
Hawk communicates to the defense very well 
Originally Posted by Grave Digger:
I don't blame him for the struggles.
Well you should. He was the defensive coordinator for some reprehensible defensive performances, both individual games and complete seasons. He needs some accountability for that.
And we are talking about the best damn coaches on the planet, if you can't elevate the unit to greater than the sum of it's parts, you are immediately replaceable.
Green Bay has 10 take aways so far. They had 22 take aways all of last year. If anything is different about this years team, it has been the ability to to force a turnover. If they can keep this up, I do think this defense could be top half in the nfl and I might get off Dom's back for awhile. I worry that if the take aways go away, they don't look much different than last year. Hopefully Dom's scheme with these bozos can keep that ball hawking up.