If the Packers struggle vs the Whiners like they did vs the Bucs I'll worry. Until then, it was just an outlier.
Tennessee is another game on the radar for teams with the potential to "bully" the Packers if they are indeed some kind of finesse team.
Shouldn’t they maybe beat the Texans to prove it was just a bad game? I mean, they looked great the first four games. But the wins were against the Vikes, Lions, Falcons, and then the Saints. Those first three teams are a mess. The Texans are probably better than their record, but the Packers should win.
@Boris posted:Every person that sent a letter to Harlan for those 2 moves, should be forced to wear Bear & Viking jerseys & never be allowed to root for the Packers ever.
What a bunch of tools
I didn't call or send a letter to Harlan after the Favre trade but I fully admit I was pissed. After all the misery I knew as a Packer fan all my life I thought to myself "oh great another great move by the Packers trading a first round pick for a guy who can't even get higher than 3rd on their depth chart"
@The Heckler posted:I didn't call or send a letter to Harlan after the Favre trade but I fully admit I was pissed. After all the misery I knew as a Packer fan all my life I thought to myself "oh great another great move by the Packers trading a first round pick for a guy who can't even get higher than 3rd on their depth chart"
I wasn't pissed as much as just resigned to the fact that the Packers were always going to be at best, mediocre, and at worst, a laughingstock. I first remember games in 1975 (when I was 6 years old), so the only playoff appearance I remembered in 1992 was one of the strike-shortened years.
I just remember thinking this Favre guy was just going to be the next in the list of bad QBs mixed in with a couple of decent ones (Dickey and Majkowski) in the 17 years I'd watched the Packers. It's unbelievable we've gone almost 30 years with Hall of Fame QBing since then. When they moved on to Rodgers from Favre, I remember thinking how is this guy ever going to follow one of the most popular guys in Packer history and succeed. Imagine the pressure that's going to be on the guy that has to follow 30 years of Favre and Rodgers. If it's Jordan Love, I hope he has the mental toughness to deal with it.
I remember being disappointed we didn’t draft Roddy White, but also that it was unbelievable that a top 5 QB fell that far. It’s obviously a different situation than with Love because we knew Favre could retire at any moment. Every offseason after the Falcons and Rams playoff debacles I was just waiting for the retirement announcement to drop.
I remember thinking fans should be fans and STFU about personnel decisions they have no input on, superior knowledge of, or power to change. 
I don't think Love will or should feel the pressure of "following 30 yrs of HOF QB play". Everyone knows how rare it is to have that and how hard it is to follow even one HOF QB. My hope is MLF/Gute (losing faith in him) build a team and an O that doesn't require HOF QB play. What we've seen before the Bay of Pigs slaughter is you don't need to be an AR to execute MLF's scheme, especially if there is more talent there. Right now it works because AR makes everyone better with his talent and intellect. Add talent more akin to KC at the skill positions and you can probably win with a mid-tier QB and a good/very good D.
Then again, if Gute was able to provide all those things, one would think he would have by now.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:I wasn't pissed as much as just resigned to the fact that the Packers were always going to be at best, mediocre, and at worst, a laughingstock. I first remember games in 1975 (when I was 6 years old), so the only playoff appearance I remembered in 1992 was one of the strike-shortened years.
I just remember thinking this Favre guy was just going to be the next in the list of bad QBs mixed in with a couple of decent ones (Dickey and Majkowski) in the 17 years I'd watched the Packers. It's unbelievable we've gone almost 30 years with Hall of Fame QBing since then. When they moved on to Rodgers from Favre, I remember thinking how is this guy ever going to follow one of the most popular guys in Packer history and succeed. Imagine the pressure that's going to be on the guy that has to follow 30 years of Favre and Rodgers. If it's Jordan Love, I hope he has the mental toughness to deal with it.
I've lived in Wisconsin since 1995 but was a Packer fan since the 70's while growing up in a military family (Parents were from Eau Claire / Fall Creek). Being a Packer fan was tough (To say the least) and got a little better when Magic came to town. Enter Harlan, Wolf, Holmgren and that MFer named Brett Favre. Favre, douchy towards the end or not, will always hold a special place in my football heart. While not single-handedly, he was the face of the organization that took this franchise from perennial losers to the promised land.
When he was traded, I thought Rodgers would be good but could never replace #4. Turns out, Rodgers has been much better than Favre over the course of their careers. The odds of Love following in those footsteps aren't good... but who the fuck really knows?
But back to the BF/AR transition, I thought Ted was just moving forward with AR because Favre was ready to hang em up, not necessarily because it looked like AR could be as special as he is. When Favre changed his mind and threw a fit, I thought 1265 was just sticking to the plan they had already started executing, regardless of how good they thought AR was or wasn't. I saw AR his rookie season in the preseason vs. TEN and I thought he was a mistake. Didn't do anything on the field and looked uninterested and disengaged on the sideline. I remember him doing some good things in PS 2007 but chalked it up a bit to being PS. When they went with him and then stuck to their guns, I lowered my expectations and hoped he would at least be "good".
@Boris posted:3 drafts & every draft pick should be starter/all-pro?
Ok....
Because that's what I was saying? There is a little more room between the current roster and "every draft pick should be a starter/all-pro". He's left several positions unchanged and unimproved since last year, and outside drafts and last year's FA haul, hasn't really shown efforts to improve the roster with anything other than UDFA's and practice squad guys. He's had some luck there but he needs to step it up. This team needs improvements on the DL, ILB, WR and OT. It has for the 3 years he's been running the show.
@DH13 posted:But back to the BF/AR transition, I thought Ted was just moving forward with AR because Favre was ready to hang em up, not necessarily because it looked like AR could be as special as he is. When Favre changed his mind and threw a fit, I thought 1265 was just sticking to the plan they had already started executing, regardless of how good they thought AR was or wasn't. I saw AR his rookie season in the preseason vs. TEN and I thought he was a mistake. Didn't do anything on the field and looked uninterested and disengaged on the sideline. I remember him doing some good things in PS 2007 but chalked it up a bit to being PS. When they went with him and then stuck to their guns, I lowered my expectations and hoped he would at least be "good".
The November 2007 Cowboys game when he came in for an injured Favre is when I knew that Rodgers was at least likely to be an above-average QB. I remember watching Rodgers in his first preseason games with the bias that all those GMs how passed on Rodgers after Alex Smith went #1 must have known something.
I was watching at a sports bar (I think the game was on NFL network and we didn't get that on cable). Favre got hurt and the Packer fans at this West Michigan sports bar were despondent. Then Rodgers came in and struggled in his first series and the despondence only increased. Then, after that Rodgers looked really good, especially considering Favre really looked terrible at the beginning of the game (2 interceptions early on and the first time that year that you saw the Favre "screw it" attitude he always tended toward.
In retrospect, a 24-year-old Rodgers was a better QB than the 38-year-old Favre right then. Absolutely no one should ever blame MM for not going to Rodgers at some point that year, but I firmly believe that if MM would have gone to Rodgers at halftime of that frigid NFC Title Game against the Giants that year (which he was rumored to have at least considered) that the Packers would have been the ones playing in the Super Bowl against the Patriots that year.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:. Absolutely no one should ever blame MM for not going to Rodgers at some point that year, but I firmly believe that if MM would have gone to Rodgers at halftime of that frigid NFC Title Game against the Giants that year (which he was rumored to have at least considered) that the Packers would have been the ones playing in the Super Bowl against the Patriots that year.
I said that all along too. When Favre was sacked and hand warmers came out of every place he could stuff them I knew we were finished. You could tell he wanted to be anywhere but on the field in Lambeau. MM should have let TOG stay in the locker room at the half, get warmed up good and used him in the 4th quarter if needed.
@DH13 posted:Because that's what I was saying? There is a little more room between the current roster and "every draft pick should be a starter/all-pro". He's left several positions unchanged and unimproved since last year, and outside drafts and last year's FA haul, hasn't really shown efforts to improve the roster with anything other than UDFA's and practice squad guys. He's had some luck there but he needs to step it up. This team needs improvements on the DL, ILB, WR and OT. It has for the 3 years he's been running the show.
I’ll not quibble over DL, ILB, and WR. However, the Oline is very good and depth besides. Left side - One all-pro, one ascending possible all-pro, and a center who’s very good. Other side is at least competent and backups including a rookie that can play.
@PA green & gold posted:I’ll not quibble over DL, ILB, and WR. However, the Oline is very good and depth besides. Left side - One all-pro, one ascending possible all-pro, and a center who’s very good. Other side is at least competent and backups including a rookie that can play.
DL (outside of Kenny Clark) and ILB badly need talent upgrades. I'd like another WR too, but we do have a top 10 NFL WR and Lazard and MVS are legit rotation guys on almost any team.
But, the real issue is the lack of playmakers on defense. All teams have weaknesses and defense are mostly going to struggle to live up to fans' expectations because the rules are so stacked against defenders, but what overcomes that are guys that make plays on defense. A guy that can make a drive-ending pass rush to force a sack or a 3rd down throwaway saves you points. A guy that can break on the ball in the secondary and take it to the house.
They have one guy like that this year - Z. Smith. P. Smith hasn't done that this year. As good as Kenny Clark is, he's more of a Ryan Pickett type. He's great against the run, takes up double teams, can push the pocket, but he sets up the other guys to get the sack.
The real problem is the lack of playmakers in the secondary. Jaire Alexander is as good a cover corner as they've had. He's outstanding going after bubble screens and RBs trying to get around the corner. He's on the Woodson, young Tramon, Sam Shields level. He's a Pro Bowler, but he hasn't been a playmaker in the passing game. The Packers won the Saints game and they were up 10 with 2 minutes left, but this play is a good example of what they need. This was a play where Brees threw a ball late to the right, Alexander broke on it and it looked like a sure pick 6, but he dropped it. He makes that play, it's a 17 point game and the Packers don't have to worry about recovering an onside kick up 7. Those plays change games. If that's Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Leroy Butler, or Nick Collins that goes to the house 9 times out of 10. That's what they need right now on defense as much as anything - a guy that turns mistakes by opposing QBs into pick 6s.
1st & 10 at NO 25
(2:00 - 4th) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass incomplete short right to E.Sanders (J.Alexander).
@Boris posted:Ha! I moved out in 1995 - That's funny
If Love is HALF the QB Rodgers is, he'll be worth the draft pick.
I moved away in 1994...we saw pakrz coming to destroy our property values.
Blair, I will be going thru St George next week, probably staying there over night. What's the restaurant rules out here now? Open? Restrictions?
Or, how about putting me and Ms Peak up at your desert palace, including meals of course.
0 targets to Evans last week with Jaire in coverage. How is he supposed to make a play?
@Pikes Peak posted:Blair, I will be going thru St George next week, probably staying there over night. What's the restaurant rules out here now? Open? Restrictions?
Or, how about putting me and Ms Peak up at your desert palace, including meals of course.
Hell, he wouldn't even meat me at the State Fair in West Allis. You really think he'll put you up and feed you?
@BrainDed posted:0 targets to Evans last week with Jaire in coverage. How is he supposed to make a play?
Building quite the resume. He gave Calvin Ridley (who's having a very good season) a big doughnut when they played Atlanta.
The critics said he was too small to be a top CB in the NFL.
@BrainDed posted:0 targets to Evans last week with Jaire in coverage. How is he supposed to make a play?
I’m not specifically talking about last week.
@Pikes Peak posted:Blair, I will be going thru St George next week, probably staying there over night. What's the restaurant rules out here now? Open? Restrictions?
Or, how about putting me and Ms Peak up at your desert palace, including meals of course.
Awesomeness!
As soon as ammo Venmo’s me the cash, dinner is on me. Restaurants open...best in town is Capaletti’s (Italian) in downtown (by the way, nothing more than 10 minutes away around here) You can bring your own wine for a corkage fee. Most restaurants are open with limited hours...nobody comes to St.George for the food, though. Any of the 3-4 Mexican eateries are ok.
Speaking of wine...there are 3 state run liquor stores which is only way to buy your hootch...if you are coming up on I15 from Vegas., Ray’s liquor in Mesquite NV is just off interstate and you’ll save $$$ if you make that stop.
if you do only one thing in St.George, do Snow Canyon State Park...it’s like a mini Grand Canyon and you can either do an easy hike on pavement/gravel or any number of trails...you could get a good feel for it in just a couple hours if you don’t have much time...He’ll, just driving the 8 miles end to end is gorgeous....there is a fee ...it’s that or tour the Mormon Tabernacle. 😀
I wish I could offer to get together, but Mrs. Kiel still works and is not much for entertaining on works nights....plus, I’m in an iron lung.😀
Do you like living there better than .... Florida right?
Good place to retire ?
What's the price range on a glorious home for a upper income retired couple ... for "folks like us"
Mucho gracias. I may take in the Brigham Young winter home and the Meadow Massace site followed by dinner at the Italian joint.
Big night in Utah!
@Packdog ...Absolutely a wonderful place to retire...that and outdoor tourism are its niche. It’s kind of a weird suburb of Salt Lake City 300 miles to the North as a lot of folks with $$$ winter here. Our neighborhood is literally 70% 2nd hones for Mormons with too much money.
Summers hot as Hell, but still better than Florida summers....the dry heat thing is no lie. There are affordable homes in every range....if you have some coin, the gated communities of Entrada are the place to be.
Downsides might be hyper growth, lack of dining:night life and....70% Mormons and they are a different breed.
It’s clean, safe and beautiful red rocks like a poor mans Sedona. You could do far worse! Lot of people fleeing California.
That said, we’ve put out one year old house on the market as we realize when our Atlanta based daughter has a family, we won’t want to be too far away, so we’re actually thinking (visited last week) Chattanooga TN which has a ton going for it.
@Pikes Peak posted:Mucho gracias. I may take in the Brigham Young winter home and the Meadow Massace site followed by dinner at the Italian joint.
Big night in Utah!
The Meadow Massacre story is quite disturbing and it’s a pretty drive to the site...never stopped. Haven’t toured the Brigham Young home, but hear it’s worth it. Good plan and give us a report!
There you go Packdog. Shoot him an offer. Just make sure the Boobmonkey is included.
I, like many others, was initially shocked by the trade for TOG because of the 1st round pick, and the history of the Packers with trading first round picks for QB's.
The scuttlebutt around Atlanta at that time was Favre enjoyed the big-city life to the fullest, and was much more interested in drinking, usually to excess, at every opportunity. Doing as little as possible at practice suited him just fine, and he stayed in Glanville's doghouse.
I'm sure Glanville was eager to make that trade, more because he thought he was 'punishing' Favre by sending him to Green Bay, but getting that draft pick was a big deal for the Falcons.
In any case, I was thinking "Oh, great, just what we need..." , "what the hell have the Packers done now?", and similar. Of course, the rest is now history.
@Blair Kiel posted:Awesomeness!
As soon as ammo Venmo’s me the cash, dinner is on me. Restaurants open...best in town is Capaletti’s (Italian) in downtown (by the way, nothing more than 10 minutes away around here) You can bring your own wine for a corkage fee.
How can they charge corkage on a box?
Sounds like a beautiful place BK. Thanks for the rundown. I spoke with an ex-business partner that moved to Salt Lake City to be near his daughter....said the Morman life is rather "unique" .
Actually have always liked Tennessee when visiting. Smokey Mountains are a special place.
Glanville was the HC and not the GM. As Favre says in one of his videos, the GM wanted him, but Glanville the HC did not. He said he was a traveling side show, so Glanville could make bets with opposing coaches about if Mississippi (Glanville's name for Favre) could throw the ball into the upper deck - which he did with ease.
Wolf, also in a separate video I saw, said he was in the stands when Southern Mississippi was playing Alabama on Alabama's field. This was Favre's first game back from his intestinal removal because of a car crash. When Wolf saw the reaction of the fans when Favre ran onto the field and how he played and won the game, he was determined to get Favre if he was ever in a position to do so. A couple years later Wolf would be the GM of the Packers and shipped a 1st rounder to Atlanta for Favre. The rest is history.
When Favre got to GB, according to my cousin, at one of his first interviews he was asked what a good Saturday night would be like for him. The answer was, "a quiet night at home with a six pack and a movie". My cousin said that as far as he was concerned, "Favre was instantly one of us" (Referring to Wisconsin people). Favre's answer in no way diminishes the drinking allegations, but it did tend to reduce the night on the town talk. After all, he came from a small Mississippi town and took his football seriously. I think in Atlanta some of that was fabricated.
I don't have links to the videos because that was sometime ago. But this is the way I heard it from Favre and Wolf.
@Blair Kiel posted:I wish I could offer to get together, but Mrs. Kiel still works and is not much for entertaining on works nights....plus, I’m in an iron lung.😀
At least you're in an iron lung and not an iron maiden. 
@Blair Kiel posted:I moved away in 1994...we saw pakrz coming to destroy our property values.
I do what I can.
@Blair Kiel posted:Awesomeness!
As soon as ammo Venmo’s me the cash, dinner is on me. Restaurants open...best in town is Capaletti’s (Italian) in downtown (by the way, nothing more than 10 minutes away around here) You can bring your own wine for a corkage fee. Most restaurants are open with limited hours...nobody comes to St.George for the food, though. Any of the 3-4 Mexican eateries are ok.
Speaking of wine...there are 3 state run liquor stores which is only way to buy your hootch...if you are coming up on I15 from Vegas., Ray’s liquor in Mesquite NV is just off interstate and you’ll save $$$ if you make that stop.
if you do only one thing in St.George, do Snow Canyon State Park...it’s like a mini Grand Canyon and you can either do an easy hike on pavement/gravel or any number of trails...you could get a good feel for it in just a couple hours if you don’t have much time...He’ll, just driving the 8 miles end to end is gorgeous....there is a fee ...it’s that or tour the Mormon Tabernacle. 😀
I wish I could offer to get together, but Mrs. Kiel still works and is not much for entertaining on works nights....plus, I’m in an iron lung.😀
I haven’t been to southern Utah in years, but there are so many great sights. Not only 5 great national parks, but some really cool state parks that you can sometimes have practically to yourself. I’m talking Goblin Valley state park and Kodachrome basin park. For anyone that enjoys nature or scenic photography, it’s stunning.
They are jam packed with Californians right now.
Rodgers also has a whopping 24 TD's in 8 games. He threw 26 ALL season last year. That's a career setting pace for him. Amazing what happens when you have a HC who knows how to work with the talent he has and thus designs an offense his QB can believe in.
Aaron Rodgers: Time to Pass Average Less Than 2.5 seconds via @PFF
— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) November 6, 2020
🔹2020: 3 of 8 games
🔹2011-2019: 6 of 140 games
Rodgers willingness to play within structure is everything I've been talking about over the last 3-4 years. We're here and it's fantastic!