SteveLuke posted:Henry posted:SteveLuke was a big fan of Ali too.
What would you prefer for Thursday the black power salute, the Castro t-shirt (or is Che who is back in vogue now), or the pig socks?
We can always go "hands up don't shoot" when the Rams come to town to remember that St. Louis once had a team.
Boy, that sure has nothing to do with Ali. Go ****ing figure.
Brak posted:Not only that, but IPA's are totally overrated. Just wait until Gose fever sweeps over us...and it's coming.
Soon.
Holly balls asshole, Gose are about the only thing worse than an IPA
Any chance there are people in this country that don't play in the NFL, know people that broke laws, yet still tried to invoke change before Trump? I'm guessing yes. Probably would have heard from the but they lacked a platform.
And Trump shouldn't be part of this conversation. He isn't a catalyst for change or part of a solution.
El-Belichick-Landry posted:Brak posted:Not only that, but IPA's are totally overrated. Just wait until Gose fever sweeps over us...and it's coming.
Soon.
Holly balls asshole, Gose are about the only thing worse than an IPA
**** me! Take a perfectly good PBR, pour it into a glass with 4-8 sweetarts in it, and, voila! I'm a beer nerd!
*pukes*
Fukk the bears and fukk their fans.
The problem is there wouldn't be these type of protests if it wasn't for Trump and all he stands for.
And nowhere in Rodgers statements do I see a word about Kaepernick. He's just a guy. He's not the idea. Martellus Bennett supported his brother who had a cop scream he'd blow his head off because he ran away from shots being fired. But what's the story on that? Well of course Michael Bennett was wrong and this isn't a pattern at all.
CAPackFan95 posted:Fukk the bears and fukk their fans.
Thanks, Rodney King.
God damn it! Should we all drape ourselves in the flag of the Viet Cong?!
That's balls. That's conviction. And SteveLuke, you ****ing ****, want to compare a peaceful, benign statement from Rodgers to the criminal failings of some individuals and a pair of ****ing socks vs. an idea?
Oh BTW, what's your income bracket? Let's break that down and move forward with our discussions.
Henry posted:The problem is there wouldn't be these type of protests if it wasn't for Trump and all he stands for.
And nowhere in Rodgers statements do I see a word about Kaepernick. He's just a guy. He's not the idea. Martellus Bennett supported his brother who had a cop scream he'd blow his head off because he ran away from shots being fired. But what's the story on that? Well of course Michael Bennett was wrong and this isn't a pattern at all.
Dude, seriously?
2014, Rams protesting "hands up, don't shoot."
2016 Kap and his merry band of men sitting out the anthem before anyone in their right mind predicted Trump would get elected. Remember, President Obama going out of his way to both defend Kap's right to protest and to caution him on what his protests meant to the men and women in the armed services (back when it was cool for the President to opine on the subject)?
http://www.politico.com/story/...ernick-anthem-228880
Don't let your Trump hatred get in the way of the facts, because this "protest" predates Trump and no one in their right mind thought he'd be the President until the night of the election.
And if the protests are about Trump, then don't you think the players, including ARod, have a responsibility to let the rest of us know about it?
Because I truly thought sitting out the anthem was about police (mis)treatment of African-Americans, at least until Lance Kendricks explained he was protesting the Puerto Rican hurricane response or something like that.
CAPackFan95 posted:Fukk the bears and fukk their fans.
I stand corrected. Sometimes it's good to be dogmatic.
CAPackFan95 posted:Fukk the bears and fukk their fans. ss
CAPackFan95,
Hey CAPackFan95. First time caller, love the show.
I'll be watching the game Thursday at my usual haunt, a Packer house. We're joined this year by a good friend. Good guy by all accounts. Retired college professor. AmIrightus...emIritis...something. He's 66 or so years old. Goes by the name of Doc. Bears fan. Keep in mind, he's ponied up money to join us for this year's ticket. So...
...how do I act during the game? I'll hang up and listen.
SL, I don't think the players are protesting Trump, per se. From everything I've read, they are protesting his saying they should be fired for basically exercising their right of free speech and for his calling them SOBs. In other words, for him implying they should "stay in their place and shut up." I think African Americans have been told that plenty of times in our history already.
You think Trump isn't a part of this in its current state? IT'S ENTIRELY ABOUT TRUMP. Are you a complete idiot? Do you read the news? Are you in complete denial? Obama defended one person's right to expression when ravenous ****s like you wanted to run him out on a rail for practicing a constitutional staple. And what's worse is the hypocrisy. You get your tightie whities in a twist about a statement Obama made defending one person to express their opinion and then Trump happens then nothing? "I could shoot someone on 5th avenue . . . " Like I said, why the **** are you here and not out condemning every Republican for turning their backs on the ideals of Proxmire?
Oh BTW, complete giveaway "your hatred of Trump". Nailed that soundbyte.
SteveLuke posted:Henry posted:The problem is there wouldn't be these type of protests if it wasn't for Trump and all he stands for.
And nowhere in Rodgers statements do I see a word about Kaepernick. He's just a guy. He's not the idea. Martellus Bennett supported his brother who had a cop scream he'd blow his head off because he ran away from shots being fired. But what's the story on that? Well of course Michael Bennett was wrong and this isn't a pattern at all.
Dude, seriously?
2014, Rams protesting "hands up, don't shoot."
2016 Kap and his merry band of men sitting out the anthem before anyone in their right mind predicted Trump would get elected. Remember, President Obama going out of his way to both defend Kap's right to protest and to caution him on what his protests meant to the men and women in the armed services (back when it was cool for the President to opine on the subject)?
http://www.politico.com/story/...ernick-anthem-228880
Don't let your Trump hatred get in the way of the facts, because this "protest" predates Trump and no one in their right mind thought he'd be the President until the night of the election.
And if the protests are about Trump, then don't you think the players, including ARod, have a responsibility to let the rest of us know about it?
Because I truly thought sitting out the anthem was about police (mis)treatment of African-Americans, at least until Lance Kendricks explained he was protesting the Puerto Rican hurricane response or something like that.
I need for you to tell me Obama's statements and Trump's statements are even remotely similar in tone and content.
Go ahead.
This whole noble old school Republican veneer is starting to show wear here.
Obama was asked about the controversy over the football playerâs protest move during a CNN town hall with members of Americaâs armed forces community on Wednesday. Kaepernick, a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, has sat or kneeled when the national anthem is played during recent games to draw attention to racial oppression in the U.S., especially police shootings of black men.
The president defended Kaepernick and others who have joined him in such acts, which many Americans consider offensive, saying, âWe fight sometimes so that people can do things that we disagree with.â But Obama also said people on both sides of the issue should keep open ears.
âSometimes out of these controversies, we start getting into a conversation, and I want everybody to listen to each other,â Obama said. âSo I want Mr. Kaepernick and others who are on a knee, I want them to listen to the pain that that may cause somebody who, for example, had a spouse or a child who was killed in combat, and why it hurts them to see somebody not standing.â
My god, what a monster. Granted, we aren't talking the eloquence of "fire the son of bitch" but I see your point.
Henry posted:God damn it! Should we all drape ourselves in the flag of the Viet Cong?!
That's balls. That's conviction. And SteveLuke, you ****ing ****, want to compare a peaceful, benign statement from Rodgers to the criminal failings of some individuals and a pair of ****ing socks vs. an idea?
Oh BTW, what's your income bracket? Let's break that down and move forward with our discussions.
Ali not signing up to fight a war with nebulous aims to come back to a country where he was a second class citizen was courageous, enlightened, and bold.
But Ali took clear, unvarnished stands (and paid a dear price for them I might add). He was protesting the war and would not be a part of it. He was pushing for basic Civil Rights that African-Americans had been denied since they were brought to America in chains.
What is/are the stands/issues being advocated now?
Trump is bad? I don't have to stand for the anthem if I don't want to?
There are too many racist cops?
Seriously, what are the goals that those who intentionally provoke are seeking to achieve?
So you think we've hit equilibrium? No issues here just silly spoiled athletes protesting over nothing? You think that?
I thought it was pretty clear what the protest were about. You even posted some links. I'm sure you read them didn't you?
"Intentionally provoke". Equating Trump to the protests you just got done "educating" me on started before his election to office. You think Trump's statements, the ones Proxmire would abhor, aren't a catalyst for any of this? No, just Trump hate.
So tell me. Whose statements, between Obama and Trump, on the issue would the good gentlemen you worked for approve of? Man, it's getting sticky all of sudden isn't it.
Honestly, you're entire post is exactly the intellectual dishonesty I'm so ****ing tired of.
How are you feeling about that little pissant comment when you could've just let me walk away?
In the end, if this kerfuffle does two things it will be a success: 1) gets people to talk about issues like race, freedom, etc., even if it's through a keyboard, and 2) brings a greater awareness of our society's inequalities. I'm hopeful on 1), not so much on 2).
vegaspacker posted:
Holy Christ. Nailed it. No military/police state here!
Hat tip to Slate.comâs Josh Levin for picking this one up:
NO NFL PLAYER STOOD FOR THE NATIONAL ANTHEM UNTIL 2009âBEFORE THEN, THE PLAYERS STAYED IN THE LOCKER ROOM AS THE ANTHEM PLAYED. NFL TEAMS GOT PATRIOTIC IN RECENT YEARS BECAUSE IT WAS GOOD FOR BUSINESS. A 2015 CONGRESSIONAL REPORT REVEALED THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE HAD PAID $5.4 MILLION TO NFL TEAMS BETWEEN 2011 AND 2014 TO STAGE ON-FIELD PATRIOTIC CEREMONIES; THE NATIONAL GUARD SHELLED OUT $6.7 MILLION FOR SIMILAR DISPLAYS BETWEEN 2013 AND 2015.
âPaid patriotismâ is what this is being called.
Fandame posted:SL, I don't think the players are protesting Trump, per se. From everything I've read, they are protesting his saying they should be fired for basically exercising their right of free speech and for his calling them SOBs. In other words, for him implying they should "stay in their place and shut up." I think African Americans have been told that plenty of times in our history already.
I get it that Trump has intentionally escalated the situation as is his MO. But, the protests pre-date Trump and occurred while President Obama was still our President. The issue(s) whatever it/they is/are must therefore be bigger than Trump, no?
PS I well know the implication of the word "uppity" and think you are correct that he baited the players here.
Are you seriously asking what the protests are about? Really? Do you want me to bullet point it for you?
So you decided to pitch a hissy over something you don't even understand? Good call son.
I tried.
I tried to try. Then William F. Fukknuts opened his Presbyterian piehole.
The Wright brothers first flight went 17 inches and Wilbur broke a clavicle. Nothing happens overnight.
SteveLuke posted:Henry posted:SteveLuke posted:Hungry5 posted:This is a good question though for a large majority of Americans. Why aren't you speaking up for your countrymen?
OK I'll start, but in this case I'll start with my countrywomen.
I will speak up for Janay Roberts, Brandie Underwood, Amelia Molitor, Crystal Espinal, Kasandra Perkins, Nicole Holder, "Kendra," and the many, many other women who have been "oppressed" by NFL players.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new...78?pmSlide=1.2426133
http://www.tmz.com/2016/12/28/...stic-violence-video/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T7AqYSxZi0
When NFL players "protest" (not make feel good commercial to burnish their PR credentials but protest) the brutality so many of their brethren have inflicted upon so many women, I will certainly stand up and take notice.
Until then, I guess I'll just link arms during the anthem, and cheer wildly for Ahmad Brooks when he tackles Joe Mixon, Tyreek Hill, etc.
Self deleted. I'm so tired of intellectual dishonesty if not outright self propaganda.
Nah, you're just not interested in anyone who does not adopt your doctrinaire narrative.
In 2014, before anyone in their right mind ever dreamed that Donnie Trump would become President of the United States, NFL players were already pushing an agenda.
Remember the Rams players coming out with the "hands up, don't shoot" gesture in honor of poor Michael Brown?
I do. https://www.si.com/nfl/2014/12...ers-hands-dont-shoot
Only problem was that "hands up don't shoot" never occurred, at least according to President Obama's Attorney General, and fellow African-American, Eric Holder.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/l...47-5711ae36cd8a.html
Was I wrong not to hold my hands up and yell don't shoot at every cop I saw because failing to do so was not unifying?
There are serious and long-standing issues involving the relationships between police departments and African-Americans and to pretend otherwise would be to deny reality. Would be great if people of good will could have serious dialogue to make things better and I have no doubt that a subset of NFL players are serious about addressing the issue and working towards bettering those relationships.
But if Aaron Rodgers expects me to show unity with "pig sock" "Castro t-shirt" wearing Kap and black-power saluters throughout the NFL in furtherance of unity, well I guess I'm not woke enough for him.
And yeah, the NFL has, and has had for some time, a serious issue with the way a significant minority of its players treat women. Don't recall ARod speaking out on that subject about his fellow travellers, do you?
This guy articulates! Seriously, excellent post!
Yeah. I read this and all I can think of is pig socks.
âThose of us joining arms on Thursday will be different in so many ways, but one thing that binds us together is that we are all individuals who want to help make our society, our country and our world a better place,â the statement explains. âIntertwined, we represent the many people who helped build this country, and we are joining together to show that we are ready to continue to build. . . .
âJoin us this Thursday by locking arms with whoever youâre with, stranger or loved one, wherever you are â intertwined and included â in this moment of unification.â
Brak posted:CAPackFan95 posted:Fukk the bears and fukk their fans. ss
CAPackFan95,
Hey CAPackFan95. First time caller, love the show.
I'll be watching the game Thursday at my usual haunt, a Packer house. We're joined this year by a good friend. Good guy by all accounts. Retired college professor. AmIrightus...emIritis...something. He's 66 or so years old. Goes by the name of Doc. Bears fan. Keep in mind, he's ponied up money to join us for this year's ticket. So...
...how do I act during the game? I'll hang up and listen.
Your results may vary.
I married into a family of Bear fans. They are all good people. I still will give them good natured crap when the Packers win. But by no means am I nasty about it. Unless they come back with Cubs shiit. Then the gloves are off.
But they do not represent the collective whole of Bears fans that I still say âfukk emâ to.
Of course the Government has too much power
As socialism (aka complete government control/regulation over every aspect of your life) increases, and the common man is forced further from the ability for an individual opinion (aka vote) to matter, the only way to get noticed is to protest.
When the government controls, minimizes, and then legislates the ability for it's citizens to use their vote to express their feelings, the only result is to protest. If we hadn't gotten to this point, none of this would matter. But, we're here, and it's stupid.
Socialism DOES NOT WORK. I didn't vote for Trump, and I didn't vote for Hilary. The whole government is a worker subsidized mess of special interests funding corporations and politicians to continue their agenda. It's beyond broken.
Let the world melt, let the world freeze. I shouldn't have to feed the rich to pay for their preparations on some island. If I protested at work about damn near anything I probably would find a way to lose my job.
If I refused to work, I wouldn't expect some gratuity to buck up my spirits. If I called cops pigs, I wouldn't expect them to defend me. If I called fire fighters pussies, I wouldn't expect them to put out my fire. If I called EMTs or doctors heretics, I wouldn't expect them to tend to my wounds. If I called a soldier a killer, I wouldn't expect them to defend my freedom.
No shoes, no shirt, no service. A business has a right to refuse service. So how is that any different than because of a belief? That right should remain. So maybe they need to go to a different city to get their cake or hire someone to take pictures. That's their right to refuse business. Hey, it's the interwebs! Find your vendor! I bet another business would travel to make sure that customer's needs are satisfied. The Government does NOT need to legislate it.
Freedom is a responsibility. Multimillionaires as 'role models' to suggest how I should think is ****ing absurd. I didn't get where I am by sitting back and saying **** it. Like all of you, I got here by working my ass off and riding the rollercoaster of life. **** any asshat who wants to preach to me on how I should think, act or feel.
I'd hate to think this thread could be the beginning of the end of x4
Fandame posted:The First Amendment is the cornerstone of our democracy and the envy of most people in the world. Trump is trying to shut down/limit the amendment through bullying tactics and tossing out words like "patriots" and SOBs so he can rally folks to his idea that free speech should have limits.
Of course, you are aware that the First Amendment does not apply to this issue. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The 14th Amendment enactment in the 1860's extended the First Amendment restrictions to state and local governments.
Because the First Amendment only protects "free speech" when the government is trying to regulate it, any private employer --including the NFL---can regulate your speech in the workplace without violating the First Amendment. Trump asked the NFL, not Congress, to make the players stand for the anthem or be fired. The NFL can choose to agree with Trump and not allow players to kneel during the National Anthem without infringing on any "rights" of the players---or not. (And, of course, the fans as consumers of the entertainment being provided can respond as they wish to such displays; again, without infringing on anybody's "rights.")
Political topics on a sports forum are as useful as âprotestsâ on a football field where noone can really articulate the topic being protested.
Iâll leave this here:
Go Pack Go.
P.S. - This isnât a First Amendment issue and has no bearing on it. If the NFL wants to ban or reprimand players for kneeling or protesting the national anthem, or flag, or whatever it is theyâre doing on the field, then the NFL has every right to do so as they please.
The NFL, as a private non-government actor, has every right to silence and prevent players from expressing themselves on the field while they are at work (like they do with celebration rules).
I honestly don't know why players are kneeling/sitting/staying in the locker room. It's become some catch-all protest for the cause du jour, inflamed by Trump. It may raise "awareness" of something but I haven't spoken to anyone who is inspired or enlightened by players boycotting the National Anthem, only put off by their methods.
Divide and conquer!
Fandame posted:The First Amendment is the cornerstone of our democracy and the envy of most people in the world. Trump is trying to shut down/limit the amendment through bullying tactics and tossing out words like "patriots" and SOBs so he can rally folks to his idea that free speech should have limits. That would also enable him to limit protests against him. Many cities and states are now doing just that by passing legislation against protests, even peaceful ones, without a gazillion permits.
With a conservative majority on the SCOTUS and a majority in both houses of government, limiting the First Amendment could be done. Trump is searching for a divisive issue so that he can move those against him to his side; this might be it. And if this scenario were to come to pass, you can kiss the First Amendment -- and our democracy -- goodbye as it slides down that slippery slope to oblivion.
Who are the people saying "hate speech" is not free speech? 40 years ago, the Illinois Nazis wanted to march through Skokie, and the Supreme Court upheld that right -- and pretty much everybody agreed with that decision. Now we've got a distressing number of people who think it's OK to use violence to keep speech they disagree with off college campuses.
And the Citizens United decision, which prompted Obama to go all Trump on the Supreme Court in the State of the Union address, was those pesky conservatives upholding the people's right to run a movie critical of Hillary Clinton.
Edit: And yes, TEAM RED have their own problems on the issue of free speech.
Brak posted...how do I act during the game? I'll hang up and listen.
Serve him Gose
not going to be at game, but if I was I would not be locking arms with anyone during the anthem. Before the anthem, after the anthem fine. But I would not be taking that time to do it.
slowmo posted:Of course, you are aware that the First Amendment does not apply to this issue. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The 14th Amendment enactment in the 1860's extended the First Amendment restrictions to state and local governments.
Because the First Amendment only protects "free speech" when the government is trying to regulate it, any private employer --including the NFL---can regulate your speech in the workplace without violating the First Amendment. Trump asked the NFL, not Congress, to make the players stand for the anthem or be fired. The NFL can choose to agree with Trump and not allow players to kneel during the National Anthem without infringing on any "rights" of the players---or not. (And, of course, the fans as consumers of the entertainment being provided can respond as they wish to such displays; again, without infringing on anybody's "rights.")
I don't think POTUS asked the NFL to force players to stand as much as he did demand players be held accountable for not standing. He represents the government which means the government is demanding people stand for the national anthem. That's where the right to peacefully protest becomes an issue that POTUS needs to recognize. If POTUS had said nothing then the ball would be entirely in the NFL's court to do something.
SteveLuke posted:And yeah, the NFL has, and has had for some time, a serious issue with the way a significant minority of its players treat women. Don't recall ARod speaking out on that subject about his fellow travellers, do you?
Rodgers has commented about Goodell's restrictions on NFL players compared to the NBA guys.
I think the fact that Trump escalated this last week, then Goodell and many owners responded the way they did, empowered the players to feel free to speak up. It has been noted that most of us commoners cannot speak politically while on company time, seems Goodell's NFL was similar - that all changed this past week.
If I were at the game, I'd lock arms with anyone around me who wanted to, but I'd also sing the Anthem loud and proud.
O, Beautiful,
For smoggy skies
Insecticided grains
For strip-mined mountains, majesty
Above the asphalt plains.
America, America,
Man sheds his waste on thee
And hides the pines
With billboard signs
From sea to oily sea!
~George Carlin
and what it's come to for me is that I will either continue tailgating, or be in the concourse until the nat anthem is over at Lambeau. I don't want any part of this. patriotism is a choice and when you tell me I have no choice I will opt out before complying.
that said, I fully support all efforts to rein in racist and/or out of control cops. that **** needs to stop. and donnie dumb**** is not the guy that will do it so he can go twitter dogwhistle something else for his base to feel oppressed about.
patriotism is a choice and when you tell me I have no choice
I don't see where that is the situation. Is this a general comment, specific to something recently said, or a cautious view of what may come?
