This is about "equality"

Fandame posted:

The First Amendment is the cornerstone of our democracy and the envy of most people in the world. Trump is trying to shut down/limit the amendment through bullying tactics and tossing out words like "patriots" and SOBs so he can rally folks to his idea that free speech should have limits. .

Google, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, those are the companies who have control over what can be said.  The first amendment doesn't apply to those platforms yet they've become the voice of our society.  They defend videos for Isis recruitment in the name of "free speech" but have shut down accounts for political views that they don't agree with.  All in the name of "hate speech".   

People attending rally's and protests are being physically threatened and forcibly silenced by groups of masked thugs trying to deny them their right to peacefully assemble.  Invited political speakers are being refused venues to speak at campuses across the country.  Groups of protestors (at fn Berkeley of all places) threatening violence to students who seek to listen to opinions that differ from their own.  All in the name of "hate speech".

Who will define "hate speech"?  That is the slippery slope that we should all be worried about.   

Divide And Conquer, a strategy older than the Bible.   Another famous quote "A house divided against itself cannot stand".  The left, the right, media, they seem hell bent on driving a wedge between us all and are doing a pretty damn good job of it.   Even on a forum about a professional game played by millionaires, we're divided.  One has to wonder if all of this is just a sign of the times or if a larger agenda is in play.

I just realized that I could write my opinions down all day long and I wouldn't even scratch the surface of explaining how I feel and where my beliefs lie but I can finish with this.

I applaud the Packers for putting out that statement.  Unity is the only thing that will save this country.  

And the only reason I give one f@ck about the piece of $hit NFL is because someone has to provide teams for my beloved Packers to play.  So I am hoping that the NFL makes it through this division and finds a way to keep politics out of it so we all have something to enjoy and cheer for on Sundays that can give us all a 3 hour break from the real world.

I frowned when I saw this thread title but after reading it I'm pleasantly surprised how it has mostly remained unemotional and productive with very little name calling or hatred.  Emotions unravel productive exchanges of ideas whether it's about politics or Dom's flavor of defense.

I ramble, I know   GO PACK GO!!!

general comment.   when I first started going to Lambeau in the mid 80s, or any place where the anthem was played, hardly any attention was paid to the nat anthem.   sometimes we sang along, sometimes we talked amongst ourselves, sometimes we forgot all about it.  I've never been overly patriotic.  but if people wanna adhere to some patriotic guidelines/beliefs and observe them, I'm good with that.  just don't expect the same from me.  it's just like religion.  I don't care what you want to believe until you want me to believe the same way.

There isn't a white person on this site who's childhood, memories, life experiences, success, friendships aren't adversely effected if they were black. That's what this is about at its core. It's not about patriotism or respect for the flag. 

Trump responded to NFL players and White Supremists as "very fine people" and "sons of bitches" in response to their right to protest. He just got them backwards. 

My only take on all the kneeling/anthem/protest crap is football is a TEAM sport.
Anything a player or a group of players do that separate themselves from the team is dead wrong. Period. Same for coaches, managers, executives, or anybody else employed by that team. 
Should a team decide collectively to demonstrate, I have no problem with that. It doesn't mean that I have to agree with and/or support them in that decision, but I will support their right to make it. 
These same players, coaches, etc. have an absolute right to their personal opinions and their ability to express them. It's up to them to determine the most responsible way to do that. 
My personal opinion is that isn't during July-February. 

Rodgers' statement doesn't have an effect on my personal beliefs one way or the other. I really don't see it any differently that 99.9% of the horse**** that we're subjected to by every form of media. It contains all the buzzwords, but is meaningless in the end.
"Linking arms" will be forgotten by the end of the 1st quarter. 

Tdog posted:

general comment.   when I first started going to Lambeau in the mid 80s, or any place where the anthem was played, hardly any attention was paid to the nat anthem.   sometimes we sang along, sometimes we talked amongst ourselves, sometimes we forgot all about it.  I've never been overly patriotic.  but if people wanna adhere to some patriotic guidelines/beliefs and observe them, I'm good with that.  just don't expect the same from me.  it's just like religion.  I don't care what you want to believe until you want me to believe the same way.

Train up a child in the way he should go,

And when he is old he will not depart from it.

One stop shopping for your burgeoning military state.

BartManDude posted:

Fandame posted:

The First Amendment is the cornerstone of our democracy and the envy of most people in the world. Trump is trying to shut down/limit the amendment through bullying tactics and tossing out words like "patriots" and SOBs so he can rally folks to his idea that free speech should have limits. .

Google, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, those are the companies who have control over what can be said.  The first amendment doesn't apply to those platforms yet they've become the voice of our society.  They defend videos for Isis recruitment in the name of "free speech" but have shut down accounts for political views that they don't agree with.  All in the name of "hate speech".   

People attending rally's and protests are being physically threatened and forcibly silenced by groups of masked thugs trying to deny them their right to peacefully assemble.  Invited political speakers are being refused venues to speak at campuses across the country.  Groups of protestors (at fn Berkeley of all places) threatening violence to students who seek to listen to opinions that differ from their own.  All in the name of "hate speech".

Who will define "hate speech"?  That is the slippery slope that we should all be worried about.   

Divide And Conquer, a strategy older than the Bible.   Another famous quote "A house divided against itself cannot stand".  The left, the right, media, they seem hell bent on driving a wedge between us all and are doing a pretty damn good job of it.   Even on a forum about a professional game played by millionaires, we're divided.  One has to wonder if all of this is just a sign of the times or if a larger agenda is in play.

I just realized that I could write my opinions down all day long and I wouldn't even scratch the surface of explaining how I feel and where my beliefs lie but I can finish with this.

I applaud the Packers for putting out that statement.  Unity is the only thing that will save this country.  

And the only reason I give one f@ck about the piece of $hit NFL is because someone has to provide teams for my beloved Packers to play.  So I am hoping that the NFL makes it through this division and finds a way to keep politics out of it so we all have something to enjoy and cheer for on Sundays that can give us all a 3 hour break from the real world on Sunday's.

I frowned when I saw this thread title but after reading it I'm pleasantly surprised how it has mostly remained unemotional and productive with very little name calling or hatred.  Emotions unravel productive exchanges of ideas whether it's about politics or Dom's flavor of defense.

I ramble, I know   GO PACK GO!!!

Let me summarize.  It's always been about class, not race.  End of story. 

Good rambling.  The only thing I would say is some hate speech is pretty easy to pick out, including that ****ing confederate flag. 

Hate speech is becoming much more easily identified.

The 1st amendment allows for "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

NFL players are peaceable assembling. The are complaining about their government (redress of grievances). Yet, Trump wants them fired?

Hungry5 posted:

SteveLuke posted:

And yeah, the NFL has, and has had for some time, a serious issue with the way a significant minority of its players treat women. Don't recall ARod speaking out on that subject about his fellow travellers, do you?

Rodgers has commented about Goodell's restrictions on NFL players compared to the NBA guys.

link

I think the fact that Trump escalated this last week, then Goodell and many owners responded the way they did, empowered the players to feel free to speak up. It has been noted that most of us commoners cannot speak politically while on company time, seems Goodell's NFL was similar - that all changed this past week.

If I were at the game, I'd lock arms with anyone around me who wanted to, but I'd also sing the Anthem loud and proud.

I'd sing the theme song from Facts of Life.  

slowmo posted:

Hungry5 posted:

Yes, the initial protest was about raising awareness to the inequality of police treatment of blacks, but it was rooted in equality/inequality. And yes, some high profile cases fueled this at that time. The events of this weekend and now ARs statement are in protest of our President calling players SOBs for kneeling. Trump likely does not really grasp this issue. The protests now ARE solely about equality. Just like the civil rights protests of the 60's were about equality.

If the players continue to show the unity, they can effect change. 

Sure.... for example, as they link arms in unity at the upcoming game, I wonder how many Bears players are out and about using their influence for change in the neighborhoods of Chicago where in the past 2 1/2 years over 1,000 people have been murdered and more than 10,000 shot and wounded.  (and, more than 85% of the victims and suspects were black.)   Lot of inequality in those stats......

 

You could just google "Bears Players in the Community" and see a metric crapton of stuff. 

Fandame posted:

The First Amendment is the cornerstone of our democracy and the envy of most people in the world. Trump is trying to shut down/limit the amendment through bullying tactics and tossing out words like "patriots" and SOBs so he can rally folks to his idea that free speech should have limits. That would also enable him to limit protests against him. Many cities and states are now doing just that by passing legislation against protests, even peaceful ones, without a gazillion permits. 

With a conservative majority on the SCOTUS and a majority in both houses of government, limiting the First Amendment could be done. Trump is searching for a divisive issue so that he can move those against him to his side; this might be it. And if this scenario were to come to pass, you can kiss the First Amendment -- and our democracy -- goodbye as it slides down that slippery slope to oblivion.

 

And that's how propaganda works: Appeal to a strong emotional response that clouds or overrides logic and objectivity. Make people believe "they" are disrespecting your country while overlooking everything else as "we" take it from you. 

Or I wonder how many NASCAR drivers are using their influence to address the opiod epidemic and all its effects in working/lower class white communities.  See, this is easy.  

People need to quit comparing entertainment industries to the other horse**** corporations out there.  These people are as much freelance as they are "employees".  The owners know it.  If you have your super stars striking for entirely different reasons your product is going to dry up in a hurry.  

Henry posted:

People need to quit comparing entertainment industries to the other horse**** corporations out there.  These people are as much freelance as they are "employees".  The owners know it.  If you have your super stars striking for entirely different reasons your product is going to dry up in a hurry.  

Very true.

Henry posted:

I'd sing the theme song from Facts of Life.  

Which one made it move: Blair, Tootie, Jo, or Natalie?

Henry posted:

Or I wonder how many NASCAR drivers are using their influence to address the opiod epidemic and all its effects in working/lower class white communities.  See, this is easy.    

Speaking of. 

My oldest is active with this group on his campus. 

Herschel posted:

And that's how propaganda works: Appeal to a strong emotional response that clouds or overrides logic and objectivity. Make people believe "they" are disrespecting your country while overlooking everything else as "we" take it from you. 

Lots of truth in this. 

Of course propaganda takes many forms. 

Tomorrow night for example, the Packers have made it clear they expect fans to join them in "unity" by locking arms during the national anthem.

And those fans who do not comply with what the Packers have asked of them, say by singing the anthem with a hand over their heart, are as a result put in the uncomfortable position of defying the Packers' call for "unity." 

Any takers on what those who do not conform with (that is "disrespect") this "request" for "unity" will be getting labeled in the aftermath of their defiance?

Anyone?

My God people (and I mean everyone- not just x4)

What is so difficult about living a life where you respect others.  I'm not even talking Christian Values or any naming or affiliation....I simply mean, doesn't mankind have an inherent desire to help and support one another.

My father grew up in a time where racist statements and beliefs were common.  I grew up in a totally white area and listening to him use racist terms and racist jokes.  Yet, I think I did not lose my inherent respect for all mankind.  Am I the odd one.

I don't claim to be a saint (I don't give everything I have to the needy...I am religious, but not overly so)...but I don't get the way so many people can automatically go to an "us vs them" mentality.  It should be a "we" mentality.  

I don't understand.

Floridarob posted:

 

Obama was asked about the controversy over the football player’s protest move during a CNN town hall with members of America’s armed forces community on Wednesday. Kaepernick, a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, has sat or kneeled when the national anthem is played during recent games to draw attention to racial oppression in the U.S., especially police shootings of black men.

 

The president defended Kaepernick and others who have joined him in such acts, which many Americans consider offensive, saying, “We fight sometimes so that people can do things that we disagree with.” But Obama also said people on both sides of the issue should keep open ears.

“Sometimes out of these controversies, we start getting into a conversation, and I want everybody to listen to each other,” Obama said. “So I want Mr. Kaepernick and others who are on a knee, I want them to listen to the pain that that may cause somebody who, for example, had a spouse or a child who was killed in combat, and why it hurts them to see somebody not standing.”

good Ol Obama, Translation-I dont want to say anything too controversial because afterall that it what I do. So I am going to see if I can stay on this fence just a couple more months before I can ride out of this office and let someone else deal with this ****. 

 

Yeah, already posted that.  Amazing how you'll twist yourself into a pretzel to take a very presidential pragmatic, statement into your bull****.  Save your "I'm not for any side but Obama is a secret muslim" ****. 

SteveLuke posted: 

Tomorrow night for example, the Packers have made it clear they expect fans to join them in "unity" by locking arms during the national anthem.

And those fans who do not comply with what the Packers have asked of them, say by singing the anthem with a hand over their heart, are as a result put in the uncomfortable position of defying the Packers' call for "unity." 

Disagree. They do not expect others to join them, they asked others to join them. Also, listening to the comments from Rodgers and Bennett, they'll respect the decision of fans not joining them. That's the whole point!

SteveLuke posted:

Herschel posted:

And that's how propaganda works: Appeal to a strong emotional response that clouds or overrides logic and objectivity. Make people believe "they" are disrespecting your country while overlooking everything else as "we" take it from you. 

Lots of truth in this. 

Of course propaganda takes many forms. 

Tomorrow night for example, the Packers have made it clear they expect fans to join them in "unity" by locking arms during the national anthem.

And those fans who do not comply with what the Packers have asked of them, say by singing the anthem with a hand over their heart, are as a result put in the uncomfortable position of defying the Packers' call for "unity." 

Any takers on what those who do not conform with (that is "disrespect") this "request" for "unity" will be getting labeled in the aftermath of their defiance?

Anyone?

Trump Supporters? Surely not Patriotic Citizens. 

justanotherpackerfan posted:

My God people (and I mean everyone- not just x4)

What is so difficult about living a life where you respect others.  I'm not even talking Christian Values or any naming or affiliation....I simply mean, doesn't mankind have an inherent desire to help and support one another.

My father grew up in a time where racist statements and beliefs were common.  I grew up in a totally white area and listening to him use racist terms and racist jokes.  Yet, I think I did not lose my inherent respect for all mankind.  Am I the odd one.

I don't claim to be a saint (I don't give everything I have to the needy...I am religious, but not overly so)...but I don't get the way so many people can automatically go to an "us vs them" mentality.  It should be a "we" mentality.  

I don't understand.

Talk to Lee Atwater, Karl Rove and Newt Gingrich.  That's what happened.

I got tired attempting pragmatic, informational encounters with right leaning individuals around the time social media got rolling.  Hard to have a civil discussion with an exchange of ideas when facts become optional for everyone.

Henry posted:

Floridarob posted:

 

Obama was asked about the controversy over the football player’s protest move during a CNN town hall with members of America’s armed forces community on Wednesday. Kaepernick, a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, has sat or kneeled when the national anthem is played during recent games to draw attention to racial oppression in the U.S., especially police shootings of black men.

 

The president defended Kaepernick and others who have joined him in such acts, which many Americans consider offensive, saying, “We fight sometimes so that people can do things that we disagree with.” But Obama also said people on both sides of the issue should keep open ears.

“Sometimes out of these controversies, we start getting into a conversation, and I want everybody to listen to each other,” Obama said. “So I want Mr. Kaepernick and others who are on a knee, I want them to listen to the pain that that may cause somebody who, for example, had a spouse or a child who was killed in combat, and why it hurts them to see somebody not standing.”

good Ol Obama, Translation-I dont want to say anything too controversial because afterall that it what I do. So I am going to see if I can stay on this fence just a couple more months before I can ride out of this office and let someone else deal with this ****. 

 

Yeah, already posted that.  Amazing how you'll twist yourself into a pretzel to take a very presidential pragmatic, statement into your bull****.  Save your "I'm not for any side but Obama is a secret muslim" ****. 

Obama said he was a Christian. i take his word at that. 

I am not twisting myself anyway Henry. There you go making assumptions again. Several in that paragraph. But then again, what argument do you have if you cant make up **** as you go along about others. 

FL Rob and Henry - 

Fandame posted:

The First Amendment is the cornerstone of our democracy and the envy of most people in the world. Trump is trying to shut down/limit the amendment through bullying tactics and tossing out words like "patriots" and SOBs so he can rally folks to his idea that free speech should have limits. That would also enable him to limit protests against him. Many cities and states are now doing just that by passing legislation against protests, even peaceful ones, without a gazillion permits. 

With a conservative majority on the SCOTUS and a majority in both houses of government, limiting the First Amendment could be done. Trump is searching for a divisive issue so that he can move those against him to his side; this might be it. And if this scenario were to come to pass, you can kiss the First Amendment -- and our democracy -- goodbye as it slides down that slippery slope to oblivion.

 

This post, and the numerous posts and arguments like it, demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the First Amendment.  

This isn't a First Amendment issue.  It simply doesn't apply in this context.  And it doesn't even take a constitutional law class to understand that; I think most civics classes sufficiently covered it.

Do you read what you post?  You just posted this.  

good Ol Obama, Translation-I dont want to say anything too controversial because afterall that it what I do. So I am going to see if I can stay on this fence just a couple more months before I can ride out of this office and let someone else deal with this ****. 

You know, speaking of the president you said set back race relations 50 years and was a catastrophic president?   Do you even know when reality floated away for you?

Elevate the dialogue, state your side(s), leave personal attacks / belittlement out of it.

Thanks.

The U.S. is a nation divided.  That is sad, but true.  Trump has not done anything to fix that.  If anything, he has continued to fan the flames.  But if you think that he's primarily responsible, you either have selective memory or you haven't been paying attention.  The divisiveness is a product of the conduct of people from various political parties, races, ideologies, etc.  

This country is in need of serious healing, but I don't know how to accomplish that.

Hungry5 posted:

FL Rob and Henry - 

Sorry Hungry, I apologize. 

Hungry5 posted:

SteveLuke posted: 

Tomorrow night for example, the Packers have made it clear they expect fans to join them in "unity" by locking arms during the national anthem.

And those fans who do not comply with what the Packers have asked of them, say by singing the anthem with a hand over their heart, are as a result put in the uncomfortable position of defying the Packers' call for "unity." 

Disagree. They do not expect others to join them, they asked others to join them. Also, listening to the comments from Rodgers and Bennett, they'll respect the decision of fans not joining them. That's the whole point!

You may be right about Rodgers & Bennett.

Then again, with every "major" news organization sure to laud the oh-so-unforced "unity" of the arm-holding players and outlets such as ESPN devoting countless hours to dissecting just how fantastic this show of unity was for not just Green Bay, not just the NFL, not just the United States, but for humankind itself, those defying this call for unity may indeed be categorized as the "others."

And yeah, "Trump supporters" will be one dog whistle away from what the non-conformists will be labelled.

No, he's the result of said divisiveness.  The problem is this result is holding rallies and making statements fostering a more authoritarian environment where he feels he can selectively call out groups of people.  I just happens those groups he taunts and demean all fall on a racial divide.  All of them.

I'm now firmly in the camp of "leave politics out of x4."  Or at the very least, create a separate forum for it.  I think I'm like many posters - I come here to read about and talk about the Green Bay Packers.  I recognize that this started as a result of recent comments and conduct by Rodgers and some other Packers, but I really don't see this being a productive conversation.  It's evolved into a string of personal attacks that does not add any value to this board.  

Hungry5 posted:

FL Rob and Henry - 

I'm a Tootie man btw.

Lambeau Lobo posted:

I'm now firmly in the camp of "leave politics out of x4."  Or at the very least, create a separate forum for it.  I think I'm like many posters - I come here to read about and talk about the Green Bay Packers.

Too bad the 1st amendment didn't call for the separation of Pack and State. 
If Thomas Jefferson had been a Packer fan we would be living in the greatest country in the world. 
I do watch the Packers on Sundays religiously, I bet that is what he really meant. 
Unfortunately nobody ever reads into the real meanings and intentions of our constitution. 

Henry posted:

justanotherpackerfan posted:

My God people (and I mean everyone- not just x4)

What is so difficult about living a life where you respect others.  I'm not even talking Christian Values or any naming or affiliation....I simply mean, doesn't mankind have an inherent desire to help and support one another.

My father grew up in a time where racist statements and beliefs were common.  I grew up in a totally white area and listening to him use racist terms and racist jokes.  Yet, I think I did not lose my inherent respect for all mankind.  Am I the odd one.

I don't claim to be a saint (I don't give everything I have to the needy...I am religious, but not overly so)...but I don't get the way so many people can automatically go to an "us vs them" mentality.  It should be a "we" mentality.  

I don't understand.

Talk to Lee Atwater, Karl Rove and Newt Gingrich.  That's what happened.

I got tired attempting pragmatic, informational encounters with right leaning individuals around the time social media got rolling.  Hard to have a civil discussion with an exchange of ideas when facts become optional for everyone.

And it is really a shame when you can't even have any kind of discussion anymore. It is all about having to win an argument. It wont be long before debate classes are outlawed in schools and colleges. If you cant beat someone with your brain, then lets just scream at the top of our lungs until the other person goes quiet. And if they dont go quiet then, bring your billy club, fists and pepper spray. One of those will have to work. 

Seriously, it is sad. I even felt sorry for Nancy Pelosi last week when she wasnt even allowed to express her comments to her people. You cant have a conservative rally at a college because if you are conservative you are not allowed to speak. And these people will be leading the county in 20 years. How sad is that?

This whole football protest now is supposed to make you feel un American and Patriotic if you dont join in the protest during the anthem. It is my opinion it is un American and unpatriotic to protest during the Anthem. 

Strikes me as a pretty benign request for a show of unity that hardly seems objectionable.  

Lambeau Lobo posted:

The U.S. is a nation divided.  That is sad, but true.  Trump has not done anything to fix that.  If anything, he has continued to fan the flames.  But if you think that he's primarily responsible, you either have selective memory or you haven't been paying attention.  The divisiveness is a product of the conduct of people from various political parties, races, ideologies, etc.  

This country is in need of serious healing, but I don't know how to accomplish that.

I don't think anyone reasonable is saying Trump is the cause, he's just the symptomatic outbreak of festering chancres secreting effluvium due to a deep-seeded infection. 

michiganjoe posted:

Strikes me as a pretty benign request for a show of unity that hardly seems objectionable.  

Exactly.  If you don't want to lock arms, don't.  

Floridarob posted:

And it is really a shame when you can't even have any kind of discussion anymore. It is all about having to win an argument. It wont be long before debate classes are outlawed in schools and colleges. If you cant beat someone with your brain, then lets just scream at the top of our lungs until the other person goes quiet. And if they dont go quiet then, bring your billy club, fists and pepper spray. One of those will have to work. 

Seriously, it is sad. I even felt sorry for Nancy Pelosi last week when she wasnt even allowed to express her comments to her people. You cant have a conservative rally at a college because if you are conservative you are not allowed to speak. And these people will be leading the county in 20 years. How sad is that?

This whole football protest now is supposed to make you feel un American and Patriotic if you dont join in the protest during the anthem. It is my opinion it is un American and unpatriotic to protest during the Anthem. 

You mention the "conservatives" not being able to speak at universities, yet the only ones  being pointedly stopped are the ones you say are doing it in a sad and hateful way. I'm of the mind that idiots like Milo and Shapiro should speak there and let the crowd of seven be seen for what it is, but actual conservatives still speak. There's a big difference between people like George Will, Rick Wilson and other mindful, intelligent speakers and pathetic flame baiters like Ann Coulter and Yiannopolis. 

Herschel posted:

Floridarob posted:

And it is really a shame when you can't even have any kind of discussion anymore. It is all about having to win an argument. It wont be long before debate classes are outlawed in schools and colleges. If you cant beat someone with your brain, then lets just scream at the top of our lungs until the other person goes quiet. And if they dont go quiet then, bring your billy club, fists and pepper spray. One of those will have to work. 

Seriously, it is sad. I even felt sorry for Nancy Pelosi last week when she wasnt even allowed to express her comments to her people. You cant have a conservative rally at a college because if you are conservative you are not allowed to speak. And these people will be leading the county in 20 years. How sad is that?

This whole football protest now is supposed to make you feel un American and Patriotic if you dont join in the protest during the anthem. It is my opinion it is un American and unpatriotic to protest during the Anthem. 

You mention the "conservatives" not being able to speak at universities, yet the only ones  being pointedly stopped are the ones you say are doing it in a sad and hateful way. I'm of the mind that idiots like Milo and Shapiro should speak there and let the crowd of seven be seen for what it is, but actual conservatives still speak. There's a big difference between people like George Will, Rick Wilson and other mindful, intelligent speakers and pathetic flame baiters like Ann Coulter and Yiannopolis. 

But yet the hateful left speakers are embraced.  So shut down and scream down those people that you feel are flame baiters but allow those speaking from the other side that are just as hateful. Basically it is not open for debate. Even if it is one, seven or 700, they should be allowed to speak. 

Sensitivity training

Floridarob posted:

But yet the hateful left speakers are embraced.  So shut down and scream down those people that you feel are flame baiters but allow those speaking from the other side that are just as hateful. Basically it is not open for debate. Even if it is one, seven or 700, they should be allowed to speak. 

Which ones?  Which hateful left speakers support things like rape, pedophilia and endless war?  I'll hang up and listen.