2017 Training Camp

DH13 posted:

If JJ Watt is the one unicorn of UW alum to set the standard for drafting any badger anyone has heard of, have at it.  And I like JJ Watt.

I brought up JJ specifically because it's his little brother we're talking about here, not to set some unfair standard. Scientifically, there's no 2 people on earth more alike than siblings (except identical twins). 

JJ Watt is not a unicorn was exactly the point, yo. Unicorns don't have brothers.

I know the NFL draft isn't science. It's gambling. And you can't clone humans yet. So who you going to bet on?

Wonder if JJ Watt's rise and injury issues are HGH related?

Thompson is, and always has been, a BPA at a position of need drafter.

Trading down they get King and Biegel, more value than just TJ.

I'm certain these statements have nothing to do with you being a giant Wisconsin Badger fan. Yes I'm certain of it. 

Hungry5 posted:

Wonder if JJ Watt's rise and injury issues are HGH related?

 

He should consult CM on that. 

I just really wanted Watt and don't trust Matthews off HGH (*kaboom*).

But you do trust TJ Watt off HGH.

Not sure adding someone else (LB) wasn't a position of need as well.  You add Watt, move CMIII back inside and it automatically improves their D.  It certainly improves their pass rush. 

CB is an issue as long as Rollins and Randall don't pan out.  Or don't stay healthy. I'm still hopeful one or both of them will return back to what they looked like 2 years ago.  If they don't, then King had better make an impact or this D will be in trouble. 

We can always use more pass rushers as we are banking on Perry and CMIII staying healthy.  

Not sure adding someone else (LB) wasn't a position of need as well.

Perhaps the defense had enough needs that getting two players instead of one was a better idea?

Watt's first two sacks were mostly acts of circumstance. The first was a result of Giants quarterback Josh Johnson getting flushed toward Watt. The rookie did a nice job to disengage from his block to pounce on the free meal. On the second, Watt was unblocked. The play looked like a screw up on the outside by New York on what should have been a receiver screen -- left tackle Ereck Flowers sprinted to block the outside as was his job on the play.

"Those will probably be the two easiest sacks of his [NFL career]," coach Mike Tomlin told KDKA-TV in Pittsburgh at halftime. "I don't want him to get disillusioned. But I do like the things that I've sent thus far."http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000828979/article/tj-watt-hype-train-starts-fast-with-twosack-debut

Agree on the sacks.   They didn't look like anything extraordinary to me but he made the plays.  

I'm basing my opinion on OTAs and training camp as well as it sounds like he's been making an impression since being drafted.  

Tough for Biegel to do so when he's hurt.  So far King hasn't done much in coverage but has shown the ability to hit and tackle.  

Should be interesting to follow how these guys perform.   For our sake it's less about Watt and more about what they need from Biegel and King. 

So Randall and Rollins looked bad in 2016, but we should pass on drafting a replacement in round 1 to improve a pass rush that we already have 2 starters at and 2 promising depth players? We had 40 sacks (6th overall) and a huge weakness at CB, TJ Watt at OLB and Clay at ILB wasn't going to change that. Kevin King and Vince Biegel could solve that though...a starter at CB and depth OLB will make a bigger difference than a future starter at OLB.

We'll have a better idea around 2020 whether TT made a mistake in the draft as far as Watt goes. Heard quite a few of the so-called experts say the gap between Watt and Biegel wasn't that great and time will tell.

Pistol GB posted:

DH13 posted:

If JJ Watt is the one unicorn of UW alum to set the standard for drafting any badger anyone has heard of, have at it.  And I like JJ Watt.

I brought up JJ specifically because it's his little brother we're talking about here, not to set some unfair standard. Scientifically, there's no 2 people on earth more alike than siblings (except identical twins). 

JJ Watt is not a unicorn was exactly the point, yo. Unicorns don't have brothers.

I know the NFL draft isn't science. It's gambling. And you can't clone humans yet. So who you going to bet on?

And sibilings have a higher rate of success than failure, yo-yo.  That's been proven time and time again.  Just ask Clay's unicorn brother.  Or AR's.  Or Gronk's.

The gap between Beigel and Watt isn't as great as between Watt's brother and Beigel's.  That's the real issue.

It doesn't really matter what Watt does, it only matters what King does. If King ends up being Ahmad Carroll then it was a waste no matter who was available at 29. If he turns into Richard Sherman then it doesn't matter how Watt performs, he could be the next Kevin Greene and we should be satisfied.

And if Beigle turns out too then it's icing on the cookies. 

phaedrus posted:

Timmy! posted:

I have no idea what the real story was, but Jefferson wound up on Gregg's bad side and was put in the doghouse permanently. JJ bitched about it towards the end of his time here, and Gregg said "tough sh*t", paraphrased, of course.
FWIW, Gregg's hiring may have a bigger mistake than the decision to fire Starr. Part of the reason he was brought in was his reputation of being tough and hard-nosed, and supposedly that's just what the Packers needed. He was that indeed, but it translated poorly to the players, and we pretty much sucked the next few years until the Majik era.

Without knowing the details, my recollection is that Jefferson did not have near the stats he had while with the Chargers and I was disappointed.  I thought I heard he wasn't much of a practice player and it caught up to him.

At the time I loved the trade but it seemed obvious that JJ did not fit the GB offense, the discontent with Gregg I am not sure about but the knee injury seemed to end his Gb career (traded to Clevland for a 7th?)

 

That ain't what PACK88 said!

Pistol GB posted:

Goalline posted:

Pistol GB posted:

Goalline posted:

Pistol GB posted:

"Everyone says I should take Watt, so I'll take King, and because he's not value at 29, I'll trade back to do so.  There, showed you all!  And here's Biegel so zip it."

I love Ted Thompson and he's done way more good than harm but that one rankled me.  TJ Watt was obvious, his DNA unchangeable and his work ethic through the roof.  Take the best player and get the quarterback before he even throws it.  

2 sacks with the first stringers. Ugh.  

A little early for a game over post, isn't it?

Disagreeing with one pick is game over now? I disagreed    that day! 

You want to rub my face in Crow dung when King gets ROY and Watt's riding the pine I'll be right here, dudesicle.

So, you are not freaking out? I don't know. Your reply is really defensive. Not interested in rubbing your face in anything.

I guess I lost you at "game over post."  I disagreed with trading down at the time and still do.  Only thing that could happen from here is I'm right or I'm wrong, which like you say, we won't know for a long time. That ain't calling game over. Neither is recognizing 2 preseason plays. 

Not freaking out. Pick 29 was a big moment for the franchise, one that every sportswriter, pundit and dinkwad in the country is going to remember for years to come.  Surely you see that. 

Chili's right: it was a need pick on account of Shields. I get that. At the same time, I don't want to hear that TT is a "best player available" GM. He obviously isn't.

It also doesn't help TT's cause any that there was a need at CB to begin with.  Randall or Rollins (1st and 2nd rounders) were supposed to fill that need, and after last year they weren't exactly looking the part. Not really fair but that's on the GM too.

Tough job GM. Not saying I could do better overall. I just really wanted Watt and don't trust Matthews off HGH (*kaboom*).

You know, I wanted TJ too. Like you say, who knows?

TT is a "Best Value Available" GM.

The value of King & Biegel is >>> Watt

It's that simple. 

Watt wouldn't have been a bad pick, you can always use pass rushers for sure. Although I wasn't sold on King before the draft, I didn't see him play as physical at UW as he has already this preseason, I'm very satisfied with how Ted maneuvered around to get this result. Provided everyone stays healthy in the secondary I think this group could really surprise...we were 4th in the league INTs with arguably one of the least experience and most wounded DB groups in the entire league. 

Pistol GB posted:

dudesicle.

Just going to leave this here.  

ChilliJon posted:

Watt isn't the missing link in GB. Neither is Biegel. King was the right play. GB needed a corner to backfill the Shields hole. 

And if Josh Jones works then Watt and Biegel are nice side stories. 

Josh Jones may be the key to it all. For the price of one of the late picks they'll be cutting, they could have had Watt/Awuzie vs. King/Biegel (or possibly Watt/King). 

If those two duos end up similar value and Jones is a good player, the Packers did well. 

Grave Digger posted:

So Randall and Rollins looked bad in 2016, but we should pass on drafting a replacement in round 1 to improve a pass rush that we already have 2 starters at and 2 promising depth players?

That's ridiculously f'ing generous.

You can say that again.

Henry posted:

Pistol GB posted:

dudesicle.

Just going to leave this here.  

Of course you are.

All that deleting, giggling all the while, for the all-important coup de grace de Henri the Relevant.

Way to focus in and contribute big, little guy!

Le Coup de Grace d'Henri le Relevant!

In the plural form: Les Coups des Grace d'Henri le Relevant. 

Sorry for the double post but that's gold, Jerry

It only took me 13 seconds.  Quit sailing in softballs.  

Totally questionable backfield with the chance to regear for speed and physicality vs. possibly getting another All Pro OLB behind the two they currently have while leaving the backfield a huge question mark?  

They are gambling on OLB health but when healthy they are proven.  The regearing of the the backfield is actually a bigger undertaking and if it does fall into place it will without doubt, affect the pass rush. 

Pretty clear cut to me.  

Do I get a coat of arms with that?

How 'bout a cookie?

You'll have to prepare your own icing. 

Gambling on health of Matthews/Perry vs. Gambling on health of Rollins/Randall? Not sure I'd side with the linebackers on that one. 

And hand about to pull a finger.  

Herschel posted:

How 'bout a cookie?

You'll have to prepare your own icing. 

Gambling on health of Matthews/Perry vs. Gambling on health of Rollins/Randall? Not sure I'd side with the linebackers on that one. 

They shipped off The Racist.  The backfield is basically getting a complete overhaul regardless of health.  I don't think they would've looked at House if they didn't know he played physical ball.

You know what you got with Perry and Matthews and they needed the infusion for the backfield regardless of Rollins and Randall.  

I wouldn't have been upset with Watt.  The Biegel pick? We'll see I guess.  

I wonder about Randall long term health as he's not a physical presence and seems to throw his body around a lot.   

Still, CMIII has taken a beating over the years and you wonder if it's catching up with him?   Perry hasn't made it through one clean season yet.  

Herschel posted:

That's ridiculously f'ing generous.

Elliot and Fackrell aren't promising players? I didn't say they were promising starters or pro bowlers, merely depth. I would say both have shown enough promise to think they could be good backups. They combined for 3 sacks last year, which isn't a lot, but both were #5 and #6 on the depth chart. 

Both are pretty Zomboey.

"Thompson is, and always has been, a BPA at a position of need drafter."

What?  LOL

Draft boards have tiers. Life is full of choices. Neil Peart was right.

"There's still a lot I'm angry about, a lot of human behaviour that's appalling and despicable, but you choose what you can fight against. I always thought if I could just put something in words perfectly enough, people would get the idea and it would change things."

Or.....

"If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."

Which one? Or something else?

Henry posted:

Both are pretty Zomboey.

Zomboey... now that's a word I like!!!  My grammar knowledge is *#!tty but I am thinking that's an adjective?  Like Datone Jones was not very Zomboey so we let the Vikings have snag him this off-season.

I know as of last year Zombo was still in the league though I hadn't checked to see if he was in any camps this season.

Zomboey = Has its moments but hardly consistent.  

Zombie got a sack in our last Super bowl

8th season in league, started 11 games last year.

http://www.nfl.com/player/frankzombo/2507948/profile

Waldenish?