2017 Training Camp

fightphoe93 posted:

DH13 posted:

Someone mentioned Harold Charmichael in reference to Clark.  Hyperbole but the first time I've heard anyone compared to Charmichael.  I remember him when I was a little kid as a fan of the Eagles.  Why was I an Eagles fan?  Because in 1981 the Packers sucked and I liked eagles.

Back in those days, '81 was actually a "good" year for the Pack as they traded for San Diego All-Pro WR John Jefferson in mid-season and they made it to 8-8.  Sorry you missed that as an Eagles fan. 

Truth be told, I rooted a lot for the San Diego Chargers (R.I.P. NFL Football in San Diego) a lot from 1979-1981 so I can relate to rooting for another team during that era. 

No I remember that clearly but wasn't JJ fat and slow/unmotivated by time he got to GB?  I don't remember 81' being an 8-8 year but my memory from that age isn't crystal clear.  I was also a Chargers fan (because I liked chargers, as in 69 dodge, and also lightning bolts) that year and remember Fouts, Winslow, JJ, Muncie and Chandler.  I was hoping for a Chargers/Eagles SB.

So Jefferson in Green Bay was the original prototype x4 member? 

Packers' hoopster-turned-receiver catching Aaron Rodgers' eye, passes

Good piece by Wilde on Clark. Really liked Harold Carmichael and one can only hope. Looks like a prime candidate for the PS.

John Jefferson was fun in Green Bay. Maybe it didn't work out like we all would've hoped but he definitely wasn't "fat & slow/unmotivated"

There were some fun games with Dickey, JJ, Lofton & Coffman. Fun offense to watch.

Barring injury, I'm expecting perhaps the best offense of all-time this year in Green Bay. I'm not joking. We finally have a TE or 2

DH13 posted:

 

No I remember that clearly but wasn't JJ fat and slow/unmotivated by time he got to GB?  I don't remember 81' being an 8-8 year but my memory from that age isn't crystal clear.  I was also a Chargers fan (because I liked chargers, as in 69 dodge, and also lightning bolts) that year and remember Fouts, Winslow, JJ, Muncie and Chandler.  I was hoping for a Chargers/Eagles SB.

'81 certainly wasn't a great year by any means compared to the past 25 years.  But it wasn't one of the really really awful Packers teams like say '79 or '80 or some of those really bad teams post John Hadl trade, or the bad teams post trade for Mossy Cade, etc. etc.  The '81 team actually showed some glimmers of hope and the Packers did play some good football in the strike shortened season of '82 making the playoffs and winning the division.   That was about it though in terms of good football until about 10 years later. 

I totally agree.  I've soapboxed several times on this site when people dog the 80's as all doom and gloom.  Those offensive spurts are probably what kept me tuned in before my 10th birthday.  What I remember about the 80's isn't an overall suckitude but how the teams that did show hope would beat a team or two they weren't supposed to, pull into the lead/tie in the central and then when it came to the last week or two of the season where winning would get them into the playoffs, they always flopped.  Strike notwithstanding.  Big O, little d.

the thing I remember most about the 80s was the inconsistency. One Night they could look like they would beat anyone (Washington Monday Nighter) and the next week they could not get out of their own way against teams that were supposely worse than them. 

And a starting cornerback is available. https://t.co/2kodCarYAs

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) August 9, 2017

Grave Digger posted:

Now we're to the point where even when defensive players play well it's obviously a sign that something else is wrong? 

Not at all monsieur, since the poor play of players (or a squad) is not a reflection of the coach, when a players does play well it is a reflection of tensions with North Korea.  

The '80s weren't all doom and gloom, but 1986-1991 was a horrible stretch with the one exception being that really cool and fun '89 team.  Other than that, just awful football for most of the rest of that timespan. 

Anyways... back to modern times.  It would be nice if Clark really turns out to be the next Harold Carmichael but it wouldn't shock me if he turns into the next Chastain West/Tori Gurley training camp sensation who turn out to be just marginal NFL players.

Grave Digger posted:

titmfatied posted:

Rollins is the bright spot so far and that's not reassuring. 

Now we're to the point where even when defensive players play well it's obviously a sign that something else is wrong? I remember the days when people got excited when a player was singled out for performing well as if it was a sign we had good players. 

Welcome to 8 years of The Wizard.

The last 8 years never happened

Tori Gurley and Michael Clark sound like opposites even if they have the same ending.  Gurley came to camp wearing his ceiling as a hat while Clark isn't even sure which direction to look in to find it.

What was Clark's 40 time?  4.5?  If he can run routes like Jennings (or close to) and keeps making grabs I don't see how he isn't on the squad for pitch and catch sessions in the EZ with Rodgers and Martellus.

Clark is a legit 4.50 guy. His greatest attribute right now is that he doesn't know enough to know he doesn't know ****. So it's 6'6", a 33" vertical, and ability so far. 

But he did know enough to recognize AR changing his slant to a fade against King. And you know AR must love a kid that doesn't know how to play WR knew enough to run a route he changed at the line. 

Meaningful games can't come soon enough.

Henry posted:

Grave Digger posted:

titmfatied posted:

Rollins is the bright spot so far and that's not reassuring. 

Now we're to the point where even when defensive players play well it's obviously a sign that something else is wrong? I remember the days when people got excited when a player was singled out for performing well as if it was a sign we had good players. 

Welcome to 8 years of The Wizard.

Is this horse not beaten to death. You guys are just saying the same thing over and over again. Players look good in camp...Dom Capers sucks. Excited about he season...The Wizard sucks. Green Bay Pa...yeah but Capers sucks. That sh*t gets old, every thread gets derailed with the same boring talk. 

It's almost like you know what is going to be said

He's got the tapes Belichick made of the other teams.

Agreed. This **** is getting old. You ran Clark beating camp DBs right out the side of you're ass. When he beat starters then he's nothing like a WR GB is going to see during the season because he's really ****ing tall. Excuses or results. You get one. You can't get both. 

Dom is going to Dom and **** up another year right up to the moment he doesn't. 

Being a fan of ALL of the Packers is fun, you should try it instead of constantly b*tching about the fukking DC...that's the stupidest thing to obsess about. You're not being objective, you're being a fukking whiner like all the people that have b*tched about Ted Thompson for years and all the people who b*tched about Aaron Rodgers after Favre left. I think we've established how people here feel about Dom Capers. It's the lamest sh*t.

RochNyFan posted:

I know his best years are behind him, but has anyone picked up Darrelle Revis yet?  Even with his decline, he may well be better than what we have at corner right now.  Packers are more than $22M under cap and I would think he might be receptive to a reasonable one-year contract for the chance to play for a SB contender.  

Revis is not Packer People.   TT will use  some of that $22 million to extend guys for next season. 

Brainwashed Boris posted:

 

Barring injury, I'm expecting perhaps the best offense of all-time this year in Green Bay. I'm not joking. We finally have a TE or 2

Or 3!  

Grave Digger posted:

Being a fan of ALL of the Packers is fun, you should try it instead of constantly b*tching about the fukking DC...that's the stupidest thing to obsess about. You're not being objective, you're being a fukking whiner like all the people that have b*tched about Ted Thompson for years and all the people who b*tched about Aaron Rodgers after Favre left. I think we've established how people here feel about Dom Capers. It's the lamest sh*t.

I've never bitched about Ted or Rodgers. So don't lump me into you're misguided bull**** thinking. You put you're stake in the ground in support of Dom. You stand by that. Knock it off please. 

I have no idea what the real story was, but Jefferson wound up on Gregg's bad side and was put in the doghouse permanently. JJ bitched about it towards the end of his time here, and Gregg said "tough sh*t", paraphrased, of course.
FWIW, Gregg's hiring may have a bigger mistake than the decision to fire Starr. Part of the reason he was brought in was his reputation of being tough and hard-nosed, and supposedly that's just what the Packers needed. He was that indeed, but it translated poorly to the players, and we pretty much sucked the next few years until the Majik era.

Ah preseason training camp fights.  Nothin like it.  Someone needs to kidnap the entire SEA team and air drop them at lambeau before everyone here starts calling each other viking fans.

Grave Digger posted:

titmfatied posted:

Rollins is the bright spot so far and that's not reassuring. 

Now we're to the point where even when defensive players play well it's obviously a sign that something else is wrong? I remember the days when people got excited when a player was singled out for performing well as if it was a sign we had good players.

For me the key is players. I'm not unhappy that Rollins is playing well, but we need more than just him. Ideally we want CBs taking starting positions and pushing each other for who's the alpha. It would be one thing if all the guys were playing well and Rollins was playing better than any of them. I don't get the feeling that's the case.

Losing Shields broke a lineage of having at least one alpha outside corner heading into the season (Shields, Tramon, Woodson, Harris). The last time the position was this shaky Antuan Edwards was on the team. It's extraordinarily difficult to win a championship without an alpha.

CB is the weakest position group on the team in my estimation. Particular attention is going to gravitate there and so far in camp the results haven't been too reassuring. I go into every training camp with great optimism that last year's weak spots can become strengths with off season talent infusion, development, and competition. So far it would seem wise to temper my hopes for the CBs this season.

When Rodgers talks about getting home field advantage it means starting the season strong and elevating from there.  Evaluating where we're at right now I have to be honest and say there's pressure to perform and the CBs as a group aren't close to showing up for the challenge. It's one thing if Jordy works over a young guy. It's another thing when I hear the young WRs are getting loose.

I'd also defer to your opinion if you think I'm wrong and they're playing better than my intuition tells me. I'm going off what I read and what I hear from the beat reporters. You've been at practice and have a better idea of how the competition has played out.

Henry posted:

What was Clark's 40 time?  4.5?  If he can run routes like Jennings (or close to) and keeps making grabs I don't see how he isn't on the squad for pitch and catch sessions in the EZ with Rodgers and Martellus.

Jennings and Jordy are the two best route runners I've seen in watching over 50 years of Packer football. If Clark approaches their level... 

Will be fun to watch this kid develop. 

You'd think practicing against AR12 and company every day would make you better by default. Yet, it seems this is not the case. Alas, there is always a butter burger across the street.

titmfatied posted:

Grave Digger posted:

titmfatied posted:

Rollins is the bright spot so far and that's not reassuring. 

Now we're to the point where even when defensive players play well it's obviously a sign that something else is wrong? I remember the days when people got excited when a player was singled out for performing well as if it was a sign we had good players.

For me the key is players. I'm not unhappy that Rollins is playing well, but we need more than just him. Ideally we want CBs taking starting positions and pushing each other for who's the alpha. It would be one thing if all the guys were playing well and Rollins was playing better than any of them. I don't get the feeling that's the case.

Losing Shields broke a lineage of having at least one alpha outside corner heading into the season (Shields, Tramon, Woodson, Harris). The last time the position was this shaky Antuan Edwards was on the team. It's extraordinarily difficult to win a championship without an alpha.

CB is the weakest position group on the team in my estimation. Particular attention is going to gravitate there and so far in camp the results haven't been too reassuring. I go into every training camp with great optimism that last year's weak spots can become strengths with off season talent infusion, development, and competition. So far it would seem wise to temper my hopes for the CBs this season.

When Rodgers talks about getting home field advantage it means starting the season strong and elevating from there.  Evaluating where we're at right now I have to be honest and say there's pressure to perform and the CBs as a group aren't close to showing up for the challenge. It's one thing if Jordy works over a young guy. It's another thing when I hear the young WRs are getting loose.

I'd also defer to your opinion if you think I'm wrong and they're playing better than my intuition tells me. I'm going off what I read and what I hear from the beat reporters. You've been at practice and have a better idea of how the competition has played out.

The only comfort that I can offer is that you can't trust the camp reports.   Every year there are guys who play lights out or play horrible according to camp reports but when the season starts they are who we thought they were.  

I lied, one more area of comfort.   If I learned anything last year, it's that just because I can't see the injury doesn't mean it isn't severely impacting performance   See Adams.  It's possible, maybe even probable, that one of our two youngsters plays up to potential when healthy.   

You'd think practicing against AR12 and company every day would make you better by default. Yet, it seems this is not the case.

Maybe it sucks all the confidence right out of them.

DH13 posted:

Ah preseason training camp fights.  Nothin like it.  Someone needs to kidnap the entire SEA team and air drop them at lambeau before everyone here starts calling each other viking fans.

Any more threats like that will be met with Fire and Fury!

I just hope this doesn't trigger any strikes against Pulaski.

ChilliJon posted:

I've never bitched about Ted or Rodgers. So don't lump me into you're misguided bull**** thinking. You put you're stake in the ground in support of Dom. You stand by that. And **** you!

Didn't say you complained about them, but this whining about Dom Capers is at the same level as those who b*tch(ed) about Ted and Rodgers. I'm not even saying you're wrong, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it's that this lame a$$ whining has gone on for 8 F*CKING YEARS. Any time someone here wants to talk about this team the thread gets littered with b*tching with pessmistic Dom Capers bullsh*t. You guys have a lot of football knowledge and insight, stop wasting it on the same lame a$$ Dom Capers talk. 

titmfatied posted:

I'd also defer to your opinion if you think I'm wrong and they're playing better than my intuition tells me. I'm going off what I read and what I hear from the beat reporters. You've been at practice and have a better idea of how the competition has played out.

I'm not more knowledgeable than anyone else, but I saw competition in camp that did not warrant pessimism. House and Rollins and even King had tight, step-for-step coverage on our starting receivers, which are arguably the best group in the NFL. I'm not crowning this defense as the best in the NFL, but I think we now have the talent to be among the top in the NFL barring multiple  injuries at key positions like last year. 

DH13 posted:

Ah preseason training camp fights.  Nothin like it.  Someone needs to kidnap the entire SEA team and air drop them at lambeau before everyone here starts calling each other viking fans.

They're showing some feistiness out on the field there Cotton.  A good sign. 

Grave Digger posted:

ChilliJon posted:

I've never bitched about Ted or Rodgers. So don't lump me into you're misguided bull**** thinking. You put you're stake in the ground in support of Dom. You stand by that. And **** you!

it's that this lame a$$ whining has gone on for 8 F*CKING YEARS. 

Wrwrwrong.  It's only started in earnest after it became pretty much fact that the defense would collapse in the playoffs.  

BTW, the devil has the best lines.  

Me 10 years ago:

Me after being Wizarded:

I think you've been Hollywood Hogan your entire life. 

Grave Digger posted

Grave Digger posted:

titmfatied posted:

I'd also defer to your opinion if you think I'm wrong and they're playing better than my intuition tells me. I'm going off what I read and what I hear from the beat reporters. You've been at practice and have a better idea of how the competition has played out.

I'm not more knowledgeable than anyone else, but I saw competition in camp that did not warrant pessimism. House and Rollins and even King had tight, step-for-step coverage on our starting receivers, which are arguably the best group in the NFL. I'm not crowning this defense as the best in the NFL, but I think we now have the talent to be among the top in the NFL barring multiple  injuries at key positions like last year. 

 

Should've stopped right there - and even then you'd be a bit generous in your self-assessment.