2017 Training Camp

FLPACKER posted:
NumberThree posted:
michiganjoe posted:

Gunter so far is having a really rough camp. He needs to pick it up or I can see the distinct possibility of him missing the cut.

He kinda of reminds me of Terrell Buckley.

Sure, he'll make a few INTs if a QB throws the ball to him on accident, he may even assist on a bunch of tackles; but he'll never be able to cover the deep ball, hook, or slant routes, and more often than not he will Darren Sharper every open field tackle he's presented with.

He should not be on the roster and was a UDFA for a reason. He played last year because our secondary had 4,781 injuries.

He reminds me of nothing like Buckley. This from article when he was traded:

"But what Buckley had going for him, according to those within the organization, was more than offset by deficiencies in size, competitiveness, hands, tackling, practice habits, discipline and responsiveness to big-game situations."

Gunter's problems are none of those.....they are that he just is not an elite athlete. 

Gunter's problem is that he's a safety playing corner.

"Do you really think they will only go with two at QB?"

I do. I suppose it's possible either  Hundley or Callahan might Gehrig Aaron "Pipp" Rodgers but so far, there's no evidence that either of the backups can play a winning game of football. If AR goes down for the season it's over. The backup is there to take blowout snaps.

PackFoo posted:

Gunter's problem is that he's a safety playing corner.

I don't understand why? Safetys aren't just slow Corners. Safety's have to be able to move laterally and change direction quickly, Gunter clocked at a 7.18 in the 3-cone at the combine. For reference, Vince Biegel had a 6.92. Gunter is where he's supposed to be, he's just not a great Corner. 

UDFA WR Michael Clark torched the secondary for two TDs today. One from Hundley. One from Rodgers. 

Dom is going to **** this all up once again. Dom and the defense are like the movie Rush Hour. You've seen it plenty of times. It's not good. You know how it ends. And you're still watching it when it's on. 

The reason for optimism? The 2017 Packers offense might be the best offense we've ever seen in Green Bay. Winning a Super Bowl with a defense ranked 25th or worse is still winning a Super Bowl. 

Lots of new parts working in the whole so I'm guessing it's the dreaded communication problem at this point, second week of TC.  They'll get worked over through the first 4 or 8 but should start showing up in November.  Well likely see 2 rooks logging significant snaps by then. Long season, people.

ChilliJon posted:
Grave Digger posted:

Ugh Michael Clark beat camp body DBs. Seasons over, might as well start prepping for 2018 Draft. 

Caught them while covered by Randall and King. The TD against King earned Clark a chest bump from Rodgers. 

Camp body DBs projected as week 1 starters. 

Optimistic way to read it . . . Michael Clark is the **** at 6'6".  I'll give King the rookie pass and Randall the shrimpy pass.  I don't suspect we'll see Randall on the outside very much.  

Of course, they got torched by a rookie UDFA.  Please let it be Michael Clark is the ****.  

Maybe it was time for croquet and finger sandwiches on the lawn at the Packers Defensive Country Club?

Optimistic way to look at this is the Packer offense could be an insane kind of special and a 6'6" glider with hands and hops might not be good enough to crack the 53. 

Rodgers is good enough to beat 31 teams. Question is. Is he good enough to beat Dom? 

ChilliJon posted:
Grave Digger posted:

Ugh Michael Clark beat camp body DBs. Seasons over, might as well start prepping for 2018 Draft. 

Caught them while covered by Randall and King. The TD against King earned Clark a chest bump from Rodgers. 

Camp body DBs projected as week 1 starters. 

Hardly "torched", the 6'6" receiver just outjumped them. Jeff Janis outjumped Patrick Peterson for a Hail Mary, does that mean anything? How many 6'6" WR will CBs see this year?

I've been hearing a lot of positive things about Michael Clark.  Is it possible that the Packers hit on another UDFA rookie?  He's a converted basketball player, who only played one year of football in college (and high school).  6'6" with a 4.5 40 - maybe we found another diamond in the rough.

I think we're fielding a group of CBs for 2017 that are going to be underwhelming again. We desperately need someone to be a shut down guy and I don't see anyone on the roster that can fill that role. Rollins is the bright spot so far and that's not reassuring. I see a group where each guy does some things very well but is equally exploitable in a different area. It's fine for sub top 10 offenses, but that scenario becomes a nightmare when they run into an ATL or NE. 

Training camp in the modern NFL leaves a lot less time for skill development and relies a lot more on intrinsic talent for a young player. One high level CB takes a lot of pressure off the entire group. It's too much for me to think King could be that guy in his first year. Randall is the guy I was hoping would come into camp with purpose and be the man. The opportunity is there and he has the intrinsic tools, but from everything I've read over the past two years I get the sense he lacks the relentless work ethic and desire to be an elite corner. For a 1st round pick I want more than a slot guy. I want a guy that can compete with  a #1 WR outside, win more than he loses, and if he can play the slot in addition to his outside responsibilities it's gravy.  It's year three. He needs to get his sh!t sorted and play to his potential instead of just being happy he's in the NFL.

I get that they're getting abused by perhaps the best offense in the NFL this training camp. Doesn't seem like 12 wants to build anyone's confidence on the defense this preseason. I think 12 looks at the weapons he has this year and wants to force a track meet. I think MM looks at his defense and wants the running game to be able to bleed the clock in the second half if they have a big lead. I'd rather they just let 12 keep attacking.

Herschel posted:

I'm glad I was sitting for that revelation.

This one?

He presses them hard at the line of scrimmage and shoots his hands directly into their chest, disrupting the route before it begins.

Joe Whitt:

“Josh is getting better,” Whitt said. “What he’s not doing is he’s not giving up plays. That’s what we have to have. We gave up way too many explosive passes, especially on the outside, I think we’ve done a good job in camp of holding vertical control when we’re in team-type periods.”

I'm hoping The Wizard nails that concept down before he creates a new genius prevent defense.

Lots of new parts working in the secondary as a whole so I'm guessing it's the dreaded communication problem at this point, second week of TC.  They'll get worked over through the first 4 or 8 but should start showing up in November.  We'll likely see 2 rooks logging significant snaps by then - because they will be ready.  Long season, people.

I've also read Yancy has started picking things up.  Someone mentioned Harold Charmichael in reference to Clark.  Hyperbole but the first time I've heard anyone compared to Charmichael.  I remember him when I was a little kid as a fan of the Eagles.  Why was I an Eagles fan?  Because in 1981 the Packers sucked and I liked eagles. 

Tough cut down at WR this year.

DH13 posted:

Lots of new parts working in the whole so I'm guessing it's the dreaded communication problem at this point, second week of TC.  They'll get worked over through the first 4 or 8 but should start showing up in November.  Well likely see 2 rooks logging significant snaps by then. Long season, people.

I expect Dom to get the communication problems fixed by no later than next March.

Grave Digger posted:

He's like House was early during his time in GB, a good #3 or #4 who can handle guarding another team's #3 or #4 WR. House improved over time, hopefully the same is true of Gunter. He'll never be able to defend against Julio Jones, but he can handle another team's Geronimo Allison or James Jones. I don't think there's a CB better than him or with more potential who is behind him on the depth chart. 

Every player in the NFL has  a skill set that is typically enhanced with experience!  The converse is also true of ability that it is often exposed with repetition.  The greatest players get beat regularly, it is how you resolve your defeat in the 2 second war that is the NFL.  Gunter lacks the  one weapon his position  mandates- recovery speed- if you could weld Josh Hawkins and Gunter together you might have a heck of a player. Apart neither may be an legit NFL prospect but Hawkins owns that essential trait (recovery speed) that may make up for his other deficiencies (line jam and steering)

DH13 posted:

Someone mentioned Harold Charmichael in reference to Clark.  Hyperbole but the first time I've heard anyone compared to Charmichael.  I remember him when I was a little kid as a fan of the Eagles.  Why was I an Eagles fan?  Because in 1981 the Packers sucked and I liked eagles.

Back in those days, '81 was actually a "good" year for the Pack as they traded for San Diego All-Pro WR John Jefferson in mid-season and they made it to 8-8.  Sorry you missed that as an Eagles fan. 

Truth be told, I rooted a lot for the San Diego Chargers (R.I.P. NFL Football in San Diego) a lot from 1979-1981 so I can relate to rooting for another team during that era. 

titmfatied posted:

Rollins is the bright spot so far and that's not reassuring. 

Now we're to the point where even when defensive players play well it's obviously a sign that something else is wrong? I remember the days when people got excited when a player was singled out for performing well as if it was a sign we had good players. Now the consensus seems to be our defense sucks no matter what it does. This is how people turned into Brett Favre fans instead of Packer fans, they complained so much about every other player and coach except Favre that he was all they could like. I'm not saying you specifically do this Tit, but this thread is littered with pessimism about a defense that hasn't played a snap of football against another team. "We'll see" has been replaced "I already know". 

titmfatied posted:

I think we're fielding a group of CBs for 2017 that are going to be underwhelming again. We desperately need someone to be a shut down guy and I don't see anyone on the roster that can fill that role. Rollins is the bright spot so far and that's not reassuring. I see a group where each guy does some things very well but is equally exploitable in a different area. It's fine for sub top 10 offenses, but that scenario becomes a nightmare when they run into an ATL or NE. 

Training camp in the modern NFL leaves a lot less time for skill development and relies a lot more on intrinsic talent for a young player. One high level CB takes a lot of pressure off the entire group. It's too much for me to think King could be that guy in his first year. Randall is the guy I was hoping would come into camp with purpose and be the man. The opportunity is there and he has the intrinsic tools, but from everything I've read over the past two years I get the sense he lacks the relentless work ethic and desire to be an elite corner. For a 1st round pick I want more than a slot guy. I want a guy that can compete with  a #1 WR outside, win more than he loses, and if he can play the slot in addition to his outside responsibilities it's gravy.  It's year three. He needs to get his sh!t sorted and play to his potential instead of just being happy he's in the NFL.

I get that they're getting abused by perhaps the best offense in the NFL this training camp. Doesn't seem like 12 wants to build anyone's confidence on the defense this preseason. I think 12 looks at the weapons he has this year and wants to force a track meet. I think MM looks at his defense and wants the running game to be able to bleed the clock in the second half if they have a big lead. I'd rather they just let 12 keep attacking.

I know his best years are behind him, but has anyone picked up Darrelle Revis yet?  Even with his decline, he may well be better than what we have at corner right now.  Packers are more than $22M under cap and I would think he might be receptive to a reasonable one-year contract for the chance to play for a SB contender.  

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