Obviously Ted was ultimately responsible for each decision, that's the way the structure works. We will never really know, just curious as to who had his ear in terms of selling a FA or draft prospect. Guessing in the case of the draft the regional scout would sell it to the director of college scouting who would then sell it to Ted. I'm sure they all have their hits and misses, but would love to be a fly on the wall to hear who was pushing for guys like Spriggs or Fackrell.
George Ilona anybody? I am not impressed with HHCD this year.
I'm not impressed with HHCD, Kentrell Brice or Josh Jones this year (so far). So yes, to George Iloka...or Eric Reid.
HHCD seems like a good guy and has been a rah rah type leader, but ultimately he's not leading by example. Gute needs to address the deficiencies there and not make the mistake of letting good vets get sucked up before pulling the trigger like his predecessor. Iloka and Reid aren't THE answer, but they are an improvement.
Grave Digger posted:But they did have success here. Hayward and Hyde earned big contracts BECAUSE they had success in GB. They're being utilized better at their current teams for sure and Dom Capers wasn't the answer, but I think the areas that were fukked up were fukked up because we wasted valuable picks on guys like Quentin Rollins, Kyler Fackrell, Khyri Thornton, Derek Sherrod, Jason Spriggs, etc. Maybe a lack of talent magnified the coaching weakness, but the primary illness was a lack of talent.
Casey had a great rookie year. His snap count started going down because he was viewed as a slot corner only with little upside. When his rookie deal was up GB didnât do anything to keep him. He signed a meager 3 year FA deal for $5 million per season. Chargers immediately put him outside and he led the NFL in picks. Last year he was PFFs highest rated boundary corner. Chargers signed him to an extension for real money before he gave thoughts about hitting the open market again.
Hyde is a little murkier. I think everyone viewed him as a high football IQ try hard guy with marginal speed and a racist. He actually got a better FA deal from Buffalo than Casey received but not by much. Heâs thriving with the Bills and is probably going to get an extension as well. Casey threw a little shade at GB when Hyde made the Pro Bowl. Point being the D staff in GB didnât know how to maximize what they had.
Point is. Neither got rich off FA deals after GB decided to go in another direction. But they are now. GB could have both on the roster today for $10.5 million per year.
Did Ted decide to cut ties on his own? Did Ted do so on advice from Mike based on feedback from Dom? Did Casey and Micah want out of GB? Did Casey and Micah want to get as far away from Dom as possible? Weâll probably never know. I do know both would look great in GB right now though.
Fackrell and Spriggs. Terrible picks. TERRIBLE! Rollins. Heâs a safety trying to play corner. Sherrod. Who knows with the broken leg and all.
Thornton is where I start to think Ted was sliding into the abyss as a GM.
Buccaneers sign Jerel Worthy.
His snap counts went down because he was injured. Year 4 he had the 3rd highest snap count of any defender on the team. Ted just let him walk because he was too cheap to pay him 5 mil per year, which is less than I thought he got, but I was thinking of his current deal which is over 10 per year. I don't think there's any big mystery behind behind why they didn't re-sign him, they told him he was a Slot CB only and worth less than 5 per year. Based on Murphy's insistence that silos between the coaches and FO be destroyed, I don't think there was a lot of input from the coaching staff on personnel issues. I think Ted has been giving MM a 53 man roster without asking him what he needed.
Peterson signs with the Redskins.
The entire roster would look completely different if Hayward and Hyde were Packers making $16 million per between them this year and Dom was fired in 2015.
Randall and Rollins never happen. Randall and Rollins led to King, Alexander, and Jackson.
5 picks to cover for two guys that made the pro bowl elsewhere last year for $16 million per total.
5 picks in the first two rounds to get (hopefully) to the same place they were to begin with.
The Randall pick is especially painful because that could have been and should have been Landon Collins at S because he was easily the best player on the board. But S wasnât a need.
So Ted went Silo, Mike went stubborn, and Dom went wizard. However we agree or disagree on all this the fact is all three of them screwed up a roster for years while Rodgers got a few years older.
I mostly agree. Mike should have fired Dom when he realized he needed to spend more time monitoring the defense as I think the point of hiring Capers in the first place was to get a very experienced DC that he didn't have to monitor. I believe at that time I think I suggested they hire recently fired Browns HC Mike Pettine.
Seahawks release Jon Ryan.
Seattle must be making room to acquire Hundley
DH13 posted:Where was TT drafting in the order the last 5 years and where was Spielman drafting?
The discussion was about top tier players drafted/acquired since 2013.
I identified Rhodes, Kendricks, Hunter, Diggs, and Thielen as established top tier players for the Vikings - compared to Bakhtiari, Adams, and (likely soon to be) Clark for GB.
Where were those 5 Vikings players drafted you say?
Rhodes (1st round, 25th overall);
Kendricks (2nd round -- after Randall);
Hunter (3rd round);
Diggs (5th round); and
Thielen (UDFA).
It could be argued that Barr is another top tier talent, but given that he was the 9th overall selection it would be unfair to include him in any comparison of Ted's acquisition of "top tier" players since 2013 because Ted's highest pick during that time was #20 (HHCD in 2014).
The reality is that during the first half of his time in GB, Ted selected numerous top tier players, but not one of them higher than 23rd overall.
That impressive list from 2005 to 2010 includes Bryan Bulaga (23rd overall), Aaron Rodgers (24th overall), Clay Matthews (26th overall), Nick Collins, Jordy Nelson, and Greg Jennings (2nd rounders), Jermichael Finely and James Jones (3rd rounders), and Josh Sitton and TJ Lang (4th rounders). [Just in case my position is unclear, without even factoring in the Woodson, Pickett, Walden, Howard Green, etc. signings, this outstanding drafting record shows why Ted Thompson should get the lion's share of the credit for the Packers winning their fourth Super Bowl.]
The record above shows that in building his Super Bowl winning team, Ted did not really strike it rich with his three top 20 picks (Hawk, Raji, and Harrell) and that it was really, 3 late first round, 3 second round, and 2 third and 2 fourth round picks that he knocked out of the park.
If some folks want to believe that the diminishing returns on Ted's drafts over the last several years are due entirely to "draft order" that is fine, but that belief does not correlate to the success he experienced over his first several years as Packers GM.
Additionally, the fact that Spielman WASTED AN UNGODLY AMOUNT OF DRAFT CAPITAL PURSUING the most important position in football between 2011 (when he selected Ponder) and 2017 and yet still brought in more "upper tier" talent than Ted (who could and did entirely ignore that position during that period) only underscores how precipitously Ted's drafting fell off.
Finally, very few maintain that Ted was solely responsible for the Packers not getting back to another Super Bowl. As the author of the infamous Dom Capers is an "Outstanding" Coach thread and one of the earliest advocates for Dom to be fired, I certainly don't believe that to be the case.
However, as the GM Ted was (or at least was supposed to be) in overall control of football operations. After last season, few fans (and more importantly Mark Murphy) could still deny the lack of talent on the roster and the poor coaching (and not just the defensive coaching). The talent deficiencies and inadequate coaching did not start the day Anthony Barr cheap-shotted Rodgers, but it took his extended absence to expose just how bad it had gotten.
As the individual principally charged with obtaining talented players and for ensuring the coaching staff is top notch, Ted Thompson gets the ultimate blame for what the Packers had become, not Mike, not Dom, and not Aaron.
The Viking OL is horrible. Spielman failed. Your entire post is invalid.
This STILL isnât fantasy football.
Kirk Cousins would like this post and PM me 8 weeks from now if he could. Every Viking fan knows this deep down by the way.
Steve Luke defending TT - I have definitely seen it all now
ammo posted:Peterson signs with the Redskins.
For league minimum.
SteveLuke posted:DH13 posted:Where was TT drafting in the order the last 5 years and where was Spielman drafting?
The discussion was about top tier players drafted/acquired since 2013.
I identified Rhodes, Kendricks, Hunter, Diggs, and Thielen as established top tier players for the Vikings - compared to Bakhtiari, Adams, and (likely soon to be) Clark for GB.
Where were those 5 Vikings players drafted you say?
Rhodes (1st round, 25th overall);
Kendricks (2nd round -- after Randall);
Hunter (3rd round);
Diggs (5th round); and
Thielen (UDFA).
It could be argued that Barr is another top tier talent, but given that he was the 9th overall selection it would be unfair to include him in any comparison of Ted's acquisition of "top tier" players since 2013 because Ted's highest pick during that time was #20 (HHCD in 2014).
The reality is that during the first half of his time in GB, Ted selected numerous top tier players, but not one of them higher than 23rd overall.
That impressive list from 2005 to 2010 includes Bryan Bulaga (23rd overall), Aaron Rodgers (24th overall), Clay Matthews (26th overall), Nick Collins, Jordy Nelson, and Greg Jennings (2nd rounders), Jermichael Finely and James Jones (3rd rounders), and Josh Sitton and TJ Lang (4th rounders). [Just in case my position is unclear, without even factoring in the Woodson, Pickett, Walden, Howard Green, etc. signings, this outstanding drafting record shows why Ted Thompson should get the lion's share of the credit for the Packers winning their fourth Super Bowl.]
The record above shows that in building his Super Bowl winning team, Ted did not really strike it rich with his three top 20 picks (Hawk, Raji, and Harrell) and that it was really, 3 late first round, 3 second round, and 2 third and 2 fourth round picks that he knocked out of the park.
If some folks want to believe that the diminishing returns on Ted's drafts over the last several years are due entirely to "draft order" that is fine, but that belief does not correlate to the success he experienced over his first several years as Packers GM.
Additionally, the fact that Spielman WASTED AN UNGODLY AMOUNT OF DRAFT CAPITAL PURSUING the most important position in football between 2011 (when he selected Ponder) and 2017 and yet still brought in more "upper tier" talent than Ted (who could and did entirely ignore that position during that period) only underscores how precipitously Ted's drafting fell off.
Finally, very few maintain that Ted was solely responsible for the Packers not getting back to another Super Bowl. As the author of the infamous Dom Capers is an "Outstanding" Coach thread and one of the earliest advocates for Dom to be fired, I certainly don't believe that to be the case.
However, as the GM Ted was (or at least was supposed to be) in overall control of football operations. After last season, few fans (and more importantly Mark Murphy) could still deny the lack of talent on the roster and the poor coaching (and not just the defensive coaching). The talent deficiencies and inadequate coaching did not start the day Anthony Barr cheap-shotted Rodgers, but it took his extended absence to expose just how bad it had gotten.
As the individual principally charged with obtaining talented players and for ensuring the coaching staff is top notch, Ted Thompson gets the ultimate blame for what the Packers had become, not Mike, not Dom, and not Aaron.
Grave Digger posted:It really seems like you're letting TT off the hook for fukking up in the same way I get accused of making excuses for Dom Capers.
For the record, no one makes excuses like you made for Dom unless they reference Pop Warner
I'm disappointed, I was hoping no one made excuses like I made for Dom without any exception. I will do better next time.
I'm curious what the Jets would want in exchange for Teddy Bridgewater. He's buried under their depth chart and would certainly be an upgrade over any of our backups (provided he's healthy).
So what is it? Are we going to get Khalil Mack or not? I just read another article on a sports page yesterday, that said us and the Bears are the two teams vying for Mack. I have yet to hear anything from the Raiders saying Mack is up for grabs. I guess the only thing I read that is believable, anymore, is what I see on X4. Way to go, folks! You bring the conversation down to earth and back to reality. Nice job, Boris!
Grave Digger posted:I'm curious what the Jets would want in exchange for Teddy Bridgewater. He's buried under their depth chart and would certainly be an upgrade over any of our backups (provided he's healthy).
I hope you are being sarcastic because TB is one hit away from being a peanut vendor at the Jets' stadium.
Still a good QB though and again is a better option than anyone we have on the roster to backup AR.
Wasn't there a peanut vendor on x4 a while back? Diggr or something.
mrtundra posted:So what is it? Are we going to get Khalil Mack or not?
USA today had an article saying Raiders were rejecting trade inquiries.
The whole Mack thing seems like fantasy. All negotiations would have to completely crater.
Moss would start Fackrell in front of Mack. Let's just move on.
No to Bridgewater. We know without Rodgers the Packers need a Foles like backup to have a chance, and Teddy ain't that.
michiganjoe posted:ammo posted:Peterson signs with the Redskins.
For league minimum.
League minimum will buy you a lot of hickory switches.
Hickory is expensive. Eucalyptus or Pine ensures his son has enough twigs to carry on what Hank called the "Family Tradition"
mrtundra posted:Grave Digger posted:I'm curious what the Jets would want in exchange for Teddy Bridgewater. He's buried under their depth chart and would certainly be an upgrade over any of our backups (provided he's healthy).
I hope you are being sarcastic because TB is one hit away from being a peanut vendor at the Jets' stadium.
Who isn't?
Teddy ****ing Bridgewater... jeanyous.
That sucks
Grave Digger posted:I'm curious what the Jets would want in exchange for Teddy Bridgewater. He's buried under their depth chart and would certainly be an upgrade over any of our backups (provided he's healthy).
I tend to disagree with this. In other words, get off of that train.
Teddy Check Down isn't a starting QB in this league, but he's a better, more decisive QB that any of the 3 we currently have. All I'm saying is if they threw a 7th rounder at the Jets for Teddy to be our #2 I wouldn't be upset. I'd rather roll the dice with him than with the INT machines we have...2 wins, 34 INTs in 26 games between the 2 of them. Aaron Rodgers has averaged .5 INT per game over 13 years, these bums average an INT ever 23 passes.
I guess that I am more willing than most to give Kizer his chance. TB showed about as much as Hundley imo.
I would rather we give a younger, healthier Kizer the chance rather than bringing in a 3rd string QB from the Jets, of all teams...
AR has really spoiled us.
that said, I would still rather have Kizer that Teddy B. Simply based on upside.