2023 Packers NFL Draft General Discussion thread.

@YATittle posted:

This is interesting. Jets are ticked off.

https://www.audacy.com/wfan/sp...year-for-draft-trade

LMAO 😂

Pats traded because Gutey took Van Ness.

Everybody knows BellyChick is well connected to Ferentz and how they handle "starting duties" of players at Iowa. Seniors start. Period.

Billy B wanted Van Ness. He's the perfect chess piece for him to play with and attack the QB.

YA mentioned it. Pats traded with Packers when TT called up Bill and gave him an extra 3rd (to draft Clay) when TT fleeced the Pats on that trade down to get Greg Jennings and the Pats used the trade up to draft that Florida WR who busted.

You see how these GM's know and understand how things work and relationships are built over time, these relationships are important to continue staying on top.

There's a reason the Packers and Patriots have been the top 2 franchises since the 90's. They get it!

@Goalline posted:

For people who like to bash our shitty GM’s.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story...lue-2012-rank-all-32

Ummmmm, you may want to look a little closer. That shows the Packers haven't been "in the positive" since Gutekunst took over, a level of futility matched only by the Giants at #25.

One outlier in a good draft also tends to skew the numbers for some teams. The 2013 drafting of Bakhtiari (65.7) was the third-highest outlier overall, behind Russell Wilson (107.1, Seahawks #1) and Kirk Cousins (70.3, Commanders #10).

The 2012 Seattle draft with Wilson, Wagner, Jeremy Lane, and Robert Turbin essentially guaranteed them the top spot from the beginning.

@YATittle posted:

From Today's New York Times:

Some teams draft the best available athletes. Others draft for need. The Packers may be the first N.F.L. team to draft for spite. Having finally traded Rodgers to the Jets at the start of the week, the Packers assembled a draft class that appeared tailored to make Rodgers jealous.

What the NYT is overlooking is a handful of those roster spots weren't even available because some players had to be kept so Rodgers had a few friends on the team. For the first time in a long time it feels like the roster will be built the way the Packers brain trust wants it, a full 53. There is no spite about it.

@Boris posted:

YA mentioned it. Pats traded with Packers when TT called up Bill and gave him an extra 3rd (to draft Clay) when TT fleeced the Pats on that trade down to get Greg Jennings and the Pats used the trade up to draft that Florida WR who busted.

To be fair, it's hard to call a guy a bust when he has a career-ending knee injury in his rookie training camp. That's just terrible luck.

@Dr._Bob posted:

Sounds like the Jets want to win a title but they feel they are ENtitled.  The nerve of the Patriots trading with Pittsburgh to pick a player the Jets wanted.

This is why when the talking heads said swapping the #13 for #15 ended up being insignificant. No way the Jets, who supposedly have a SB caliber defense, went into the draft looking for a DE. They would have gotten their stud OT at #13.

@Herschel posted:

To be fair, it's hard to call a guy a bust when he has a career-ending knee injury in his rookie training camp. That's just terrible luck.

I think you are incorrect about Chad Jackson's career.

@Goalline posted:

For people who like to bash our shitty GM’s.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story...lue-2012-rank-all-32

Over the long haul you can see why the Packers and Patriots are 1 & 2.

Cherry pick all the stats you want. The blueprint is there to stay competitive year after year

@Boris posted:

Over the long haul you can see why the Packers and Patriots are 1 & 2.

Cherry pick all the stats you want. The blueprint is there to stay competitive year after year

At the end of the day it's about Championships. That is the stat that really matters.

When it comes to some random asshole espousing insane football theories...
First there was Bayliss.
Then there was Florio.
Now, here is Craig Carton. The new tool on the block.

The Jets are likely little more than dog shit on the bottom of Bellicheat's shoes.

@Goalline posted:

For people who like to bash our shitty GM’s.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story...lue-2012-rank-all-32

Surprising: 49ers at 30

Not surprising: Jets at 32

@PackerRick posted:

I think you are incorrect about Chad Jackson's career.

It was Brandon Tate they took in the 2009 draft who had a knee injury already, but yeah, I was misremembering the details of his injury. His new knee injury was after he played a game. He hung around as a returner for a couple of years with a couple of teams but was never the same.

@GreenBayLA posted:

Surprising: 49ers at 30

Not surprising: Jets at 32

Look at the "Gutekunst era" since 2018, which should be the young core of your team today with guys who earned second contracts or will shortly. They've done basically as well as anyone in the timeframe, especially when not drafting a good QB. 

@PackerRick posted:

I think you are incorrect about Chad Jackson's career.

Thx PR, I couldn't remember his name and didn't feel like looking it up.

TT completely fleeced old Billy B on that deal.

I remember whoever took the call from Bill, told TT he's asking for another 3rd. Usually TT said no, but the Clay trade, he said YES and the rest is history. -- TT remarked how he spoke to Bill and said we kind of got him on that Chad Jackson / Greg Jennings deal - so he gave up the extra 3rd as a "good faith" negotiation. That way you keep lines of communication open because you'll probably have to deal with him again in the future.

It's all part of the process.

Here's Aaron Jones reading his draft write-ups, with the benefit of time

I'm  sure all of these guys use them as fuel

https://twitter.com/i/status/1651615787512152065

Packers rookie jersey numbers

Lukas Van Ness: 90
Luke Musgrave: 88
Jayden Reed: 11
Tucker Kraft: 85
Colby Wooden: 96
Sean Clifford: 8
Dontayvion Wicks: 13
Karl Brooks: 94
Anders Carlson: 17
Carrington Valentine: 37
Lew Nichols III: 32
Anthony Johnson Jr.: 36
Grant DuBose: 86

7th round Safety gets number 36, hope he earns it
Kicker gets Davante's 17...

Run out of numbers at some point with all the HOF players. Vikings will never have that problem.

Sean Clifford: 8

Aaron Rodgers: 8

Good run down on the picks from Andy Herman and Tony Pauline.

@13X posted:

At the end of the day it's about Championships. That is the stat that really matters.

That's true but I'm not sold on the Rams' approach either. I enjoy entering a season with hope of a championship and not looking forward to 5-6 four win seasons after a championship. I know most people feel otherwise but I like having optimism entering a season.

@Herschel posted:

It was Brandon Tate they took in the 2009 draft who had a knee injury already, but yeah, I was misremembering. His new knee injury was after he played a game. He hung around as a returner for a couple of years with a couple of teams but was never the same.

Jackson actually missed week 1 with a hamstring and was healthy the remainder of the season. He blew his ACL in the playoffs that year, 2006. He was actually still signing NFL contracts in 2011.  The injury could have curtailed his career but many players bounce back. I don't think he was that good to begin with.

@Iowacheese posted:

Run out of numbers at some point with all the HOF players. Vikings will never have that problem.

Surprisingly, the Packers only have 5 numbers retired. 3, 14, 15, 66, and 92. Reed had originally been given #1 but now is #11 because #1 and #5 are unofficially retired.

@ChilliJon posted:

Jordan Love better be decent. Otherwise this entire plan goes up in flames. I’m 100% pulling for the guy to get it done.

With the caveat that we blew not trading AR last year, I'm not sure the entire plan is going up in flames.  AR was not going to lead us to another SB, JL was waiting in the wings, the team was tired of AR's bullshit, so it was beyond time to move on.  The plan all along was to have JL replace AR, it just so happened AR pulled a rabbit out of his ass the next two seasons, but still failed to lead us to a SB despite having home field throughout two years in a row.

I'm 100% pulling for JL too - we don't have a choice.   If he blows it and shows he's out of his league, I guess we know what position we're going to draft first.

@PackerRick posted:

Surprisingly, the Packers only have 5 numbers retired. 3, 14, 15, 66, and 92. Reed had originally been given #1 but now is #11 because #1 and #5 are unofficially retired.

#4 was also retired.

#12 will be the next.

@DH13 posted:

#4 was also retired.

True, in 2015.

@Harry Manback posted:

I'm 100% pulling for JL too - we don't have a choice.   If he blows it and shows he's out of his league, I guess we know what position we're going to draft first.

There are something like 10 RD1 quality QB's coming out next year.  A few will fall off before then but it's supposed to be one of the best QB classes...evah.

@DH13 posted:

#12 will be the next.

I'm cool with them honoring Zeke Bratkowski. 

@PackerRick posted:

Jackson actually missed week 1 with a hamstring and was healthy the remainder of the season. He blew his ACL in the playoffs that year, 2006. He was actually still signing NFL contracts in 2011.  The injury could have curtailed his career but many players bounce back. I don't think he was that good to begin with.

The receiver was Brandon Tate, not Chad Jackson, so I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make.

As far as Jackson goes, it looks like he played parts of three seasons but was only a camp body after 2008.

Chad Jackson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com.

That said, again, Chad Jackson isn't the receiver in question, though both he and Tate did have devastating knee injuries.

@DH13 posted:

Good run down on the picks from Andy Herman and Tony Pauline.

Interesting thought that the NIL money is keeping players in college longer.

Nobody likes the Clifford pick but all he really would have to do, if he ever sees the field, is be a game manager in a pinch. It's not like the Packers were looking for the QB of the future. Very smart guy that runs a 4.57 forty? Sounds like a guy Clements can work with. And I'm sure he has a massive chip on his shoulder after reading everywhere that he shouldn't have even been drafted.

Pauline saying in the end people will judge the Packers draft by how well Jaxon Smith-Njigba does compared the Van Ness is a joke. Naturally a WR is going to put up the numbers but what if Reed matches Jaxon Smith-Njigba's numbers anyway? I think you have to look at the entire haul the Packers took and judge it as an overhaul performance. Maybe Van Ness was too high at #13 but we know for sure Jaxon Smith-Njigba was because he lasted until #20. I think the Packers covered the WR position quite well in the draft.

And what people seem to overlook as to how well a player fits into a scheme. When a player may be great for a 3-4 he might not be worth a shit in a 4-3.  A WR might be average as a pure receiver  but could be great in a system that runs multiple jet sweep plays.  Same with RB as only a runner may be better as a receiver coming out of the back field.

Having a top 5 pick next year would be crazy.  Brock Bowers, Caleb Williams, Marvin Harrison Jr., Drake Maye, some stud OTs... Looks like some heavy hitters on the horizon.  

@Herschel posted:

The receiver was Brandon Tate, not Chad Jackson, so I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make.

As far as Jackson goes, it looks like he played parts of three seasons but was only a camp body after 2008.

Chad Jackson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com.

That said, again, Chad Jackson isn't the receiver in question, though both he and Tate did have devastating knee injuries.

I was responding to this comment. Chad Jackson (Florida),  was signing NFL contracts in 2011.

@Boris posted:

YA mentioned it. Pats traded with Packers when TT called up Bill and gave him an extra 3rd (to draft Clay) when TT fleeced the Pats on that trade down to get Greg Jennings and the Pats used the trade up to draft that Florida WR who busted.

To be fair, it's hard to call a guy a bust when he has a career-ending knee injury in his rookie training camp. That's just terrible luck.

@Pakrz posted:

Having a top 5 pick next year would be crazy.  Brock Bowers, Caleb Williams, Marvin Harrison Jr., Drake Maye, some stud OTs... Looks like some heavy hitters on the horizon.  

Despite all that talent, I hope like hell we’re not picking in the top 5. 🙂

@Pakrz posted:

Having a top 5 pick next year would be crazy.  Brock Bowers, Caleb Williams, Marvin Harrison Jr., Drake Maye, some stud OTs... Looks like some heavy hitters on the horizon.  

I'd LMAO if that Jets pick landed somewhere near the top. The general opinion was that the 2023 draft was lean and the 2024 draft is loaded.

@PackerRick posted:

Pauline saying in the end people will judge the Packers draft by how well Jaxon Smith-Njigba does compared the Van Ness is a joke. Naturally a WR is going to put up the numbers but what if Reed matches Jaxon Smith-Njigba's numbers anyway? I think you have to look at the entire haul the Packers took and judge it as an overhaul performance. Maybe Van Ness was too high at #13 but we know for sure Jaxon Smith-Njigba was because he lasted until #20. I think the Packers covered the WR position quite well in the draft.

Herman asked him if he'd rather have LVN+Reed or JSN + edge guy from OSU.  He preferred the latter.

@PackerRick posted:

I'd LMAO if that Jets pick landed somewhere near the top. The general opinion was that the 2023 draft was lean and the 2024 draft is loaded.

Can we get into the top 5 by packaging the 32nd and 31st picks?

Hard not to get romantic about a team with Love, Romeo and Valentine on the roster.

@DH13 posted:

Herman asked him if he'd rather have LVN+Reed or JSN + edge guy from OSU.  He preferred the latter.

I know. But before that he said this draft will be judged by the comparison of Jaxon Smith-Njigba and Van Ness. I disagreed with a few other things he said. Once a team gets out of the top 10 the current strength and weaknesses of that team really determines which direction they go with the draft. With 13 picks the Packers added 3 WRs. It's easier to find WRs after the 1st round than edge rushers.

Some people like Van Ness and some don't claiming he wasn't even a starter. That tells me they don't know how Ferentz runs his program. Rather than that, they should look at how a non-starter leads the team in sacks and makes 2nd team all Big Ten.

Also, I  can't  stress this enough, Patriots were going to take VanNess which is exactly why they traded down with the Steelers.

LVN fits everything the Patriots do on defense.

It's most likely why Gutey said "There is a lot of value with swapping picks 13 & 15". He knows and I believe the Pack didn't have much more than 13 players with a first round grade. They traded down TWICE in round 2.

It all makes so much sense when you see how the draft fell.

from Zach Kruse, 2023 draft summary