ChilliJon posted:PackLandVA posted:So with all the McCarthy hate, a counter questions often seems to be: Well, who do you think should replace him?
Henry and others have suggested a defensive minded HC with a good OC to pair with AR. Maybe that guy has been mentioned in the last page or two.
“It doesn’t make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do. We hire smart people so they can tell us what to do” - Steve Jobs
A man’s got to know his limitations.
ChilliJon posted:I’ll never agree with the argument Mike has a job in a day if he leaves Green Bay.
If you can’t win with Aaron Rodgers. Who can you win with?
Depends on your definition of winning. To us "winning" = SB, to other franchises making the playoffs every year would be very attractive.....I know that the argument can (and will) be made that where ever he would go to doesn't have AR, & without AR we don't go to the playoffs either. Impossible to determine how much credit (if any) MM should receive for AR's development. One thing for certain, the Hundley failure has hurt MM's rep with Packer fans. Not sure what other organizations would make of it.
Hungry5 posted:Pettine the Philbin.
I would've been good with this.
"We aren't a farm team . . . "
FLPACKER posted:ChilliJon posted:I’ll never agree with the argument Mike has a job in a day if he leaves Green Bay.
If you can’t win with Aaron Rodgers. Who can you win with?
Depends on your definition of winning. To us "winning" = SB, to other franchises making the playoffs every year would be very attractive.....I know that the argument can (and will) be made that where ever he would go to doesn't have AR, & without AR we don't go to the playoffs either. Impossible to determine how much credit (if any) MM should receive for AR's development. One thing for certain, the Hundley failure has hurt MM's rep with Packer fans. Not sure what other organizations would make of it.
I think NFL teams would have more of an issue with his management, which is my biggest beef but the new "scrubbed playbook" sure the **** looks like the old one and apparently according to Fangio, it still is.
I would hope he's feeling some heat considering he's essentially on a one year contract but it just seems business as usual. The Chicago game wasn't a slow start, it was a god damn disaster.
Pettine started out pretty slow too but considering the new scheme, zero production from the LB position it's a least understandable. He adapted and quick. How did McVince adjust? Rodgers came back.
I just think he's cratered out. A lot of similarities to Andy Reid with the exception of Reid being a better coach.
HC's usually have a 10 year maximum lifespan in today's NFL.
MM will either adjust & improve or he'll be gone in 2019.
It's that simple.
Henry posted:I just think he's cratered out. A lot of similarities to Andy Reid with the exception of Reid being a better coach.
Andy Reid:
Regular season: 184-120-1 (.604)
Postseason: 11-13 (.408)
SB record: 0-1
MM:
Regular season: 121-70–1 (.635)
Postseason: 10-8 (.556)
SB record: 1-0
Henry posted:Hungry5 posted:Pettine the Philbin.
I would've been good with this.
"We aren't a farm team . . . "
One's the name of the band, the other is the title of their first album.
Brak posted:We would be even more 1-0 if not for McCarthy Brandon Bostick.
FTFY
That’s bull, they had plenty of opportunities to win that game before Bosticks brain fart. It’s ever bit McCarthy’s fault as it is anyone else’s. And no, I am not being a Bostick apologist I’m simply stating facts.
OK, I meant even more 1-0 this season. Points taken, though.
Yooper. Why don't you lay out all the things that Bostick did to get us to that very difficult game?
bdplant posted:Henry posted:I just think he's cratered out. A lot of similarities to Andy Reid with the exception of Reid being a better coach.Andy Reid:
Regular season: 184-120-1 (.604)
Postseason: 11-13 (.408)
SB record: 0-1
MM:
Regular season: 121-70–1 (.635)
Postseason: 10-8 (.556)
SB record: 1-0
Andy knocks down barriers better I'll give him that! 
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There's a reason most coaching changes (not just HC) are not made in season. Especially by teams that get to the championship game. Maybe if you're 1-8 and it's obvious that some portion of your team is particularly awful. That same special teams coach was good enough to be a part of what got them there.
Sometimes a player is responsible for their play. Also probably not a popular take.
ammo posted:Brak posted:We would be even more 1-0 if not for McCarthy Brandon Bostick.
FTFY
Q: Who coached Bostic and put him in the position?
A: Slocum
Q: Who hired, and kept on even though stats and common sense showed he was horrible for years leading up to that game, Slocum?
A: McCarthy.
Q: Who is ultimately responsible?
A: McCarthy
Q: Who coached Hawk how to defend on FG team?
A: Slocum
Q: Who hired, and kept on even though stats and common sense showed he was horrible for years leading up to that game, Slocum?
A: McCarthy
Q: Who is ultimately responsible?
A: McCarthy
Q: Who's been Rodgers' only head coach in the NFL and been an influential person in his career path?
A: McCarthy.
Goes both ways, and the critics are quick to ignore anything positive he's done.
Brak posted:Q: Who's been Rodgers' only head coach in the NFL and been an influential person in his career path?
A: McCarthy.
Goes both ways, and the critics are quick to ignore anything positive he's done.
Q: How have other QBs done under McCarthy's tutelage?
A: You picked a poor point to argue.
I guess McCarthy is ultimately responsible for being one of the best coaches in the NFL during his tenure.
I'm OK with that. You want to pin everything on him? Go ahead, he holds up pretty well historically.
Brak posted:Q: Who's been Rodgers' only head coach in the NFL and been an influential person in his career path?
A: McCarthy.
Who was Rodgers' head coach his rookie season?
Maybe we're all underestimating the impact Sherman has had on all of this. It's like a Twilight Zone episode. Or drugs, and the Wizard of Oz, and Dark Side of the Moon.
Some people confuse coaching with controlling someone's free will.
Looking at this through my teacher glasses, sometimes you can tell your class exactly what to do, how to do it, show them step by step how to succeed, and yet when the big test comes, the students still find a way to **** it up and make you, the teacher, look like an incompetent idiot despite all your preparation, teaching, and reminding. The Bostic Boondoggle is an example. AJ’s Daze is an example of that slow, steady kid who has the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to be the hero—and falls flat on his face.
MM was responsible for hiring and keeping Slocum; Slocum was responsible for teaching his ST students. Until we learn exactly what was said to the players before they went on the field, we don’t know for sure if Bostic and the line was told to make the play if it came to them or if Hawk was told they’re never going to fake it. Sometimes, for all the teachers’ preparation, the students still make you look like a total f*** up.
Of course, when it happens over and over again, you’re not a good teacher and deserve to be replaced. The principal has already replaced Slocum and Dom, and it’s now up to the board to decide if the principal should be fired. Or, maybe the principal sees it coming and leaves before the axe falls. MM didn’t look so hot after that Bears game...
Brak posted:I guess McCarthy is ultimately responsible for being one of the best coaches in the NFL during his tenure.
I'm OK with that. You want to pin everything on him? Go ahead, he holds up pretty well historically.
If Rodgers ends his time with MM on,y having one SB appearance, football historians will not be kind to Mike.
bdplant posted:Henry posted:I just think he's cratered out. A lot of similarities to Andy Reid with the exception of Reid being a better coach.Andy Reid:
Regular season: 184-120-1 (.604)
Postseason: 11-13 (.408)
SB record: 0-1
MM:
Regular season: 121-70–1 (.635)
Postseason: 10-8 (.556)
SB record: 1-0
You know how much those numbers mean when McVince has Rodgers and Reid had Wormburner McNabb? Diddly squat zero.
It's not even a question. If Reid were available after Sherman was fired it wouldn't even be a question as to who everyone would be clamouring for. We would be having a different conversation.
SO FOR EVERYONE ON THE BOARD, IF YOU POST OUT OF CONTEXT, USELESS STATS IT MEANS NOTHING.
Take away Rodgers, McVince is nothing.
Fandame posted:
The principal has already replaced Slocum and Dom, and it’s now up to the board to decide if the principal should be fired. Or, maybe the principal sees it coming and leaves before the axe falls. MM didn’t look so hot after that Bears game...
McVince replaced The Wizard the same way I have the power of flight when I get on an airplane.
DH13 posted:Some people confuse coaching with controlling someone's free will.
Wait. What? Is that why "coaching" in the corporate world is such a big deal?
"Until we learn exactly what was said to the players before they went on the field, we don’t know for sure if Bostic and the line was told to make the play if it came to them"
There's a sideline video of Slocum telling the team "If you're names not Jordy Nelson I don't want you touching the ball" or something to that affect. Bostic is a complete idiot.
Henry posted:bdplant posted:Henry posted:I just think he's cratered out. A lot of similarities to Andy Reid with the exception of Reid being a better coach.Andy Reid:
Regular season: 184-120-1 (.604)
Postseason: 11-13 (.408)
SB record: 0-1
MM:
Regular season: 121-70–1 (.635)
Postseason: 10-8 (.556)
SB record: 1-0
You know how much those numbers mean when McVince has Rodgers and Reid had Wormburner McNabb? Diddly squat zero.
It's not even a question. If Reid were available after Sherman was fired it wouldn't even be a question and we would be having a different conversation.
SO FOR EVERYONE ON THE BOARD, IF YOU POST OUT OF CONTEXT, USELESS STATS IT MEANS NOTHING.
Take away Rodgers, McVince is nothing.
<<THIS>>
Even if Slocum 'taught Bostic' not to get involved in that kick there is no reason why he could not have secured that ball....he is a receiver, was one his whole life, the ball hit him in the hands, he should have caught it. He should have caught it.
0 SBs for Marino didn't tarnish Shula's legacy.
Marv Levy is remembered as a great coach and Kelly an outstanding QB despite 0-4.
The Andy Reid comparison is interesting. The Reid / McNabb era Eagles were a force. Four consecutive NFCC games, finally a SB appearance, and a crushing loss to NE. McNabb had a very good year in 2004. The roster had really good players on both sides of the ball.
Not sure what I think about that.
Henry postedTake away Rodgers, McVince is nothing.
We'll never know what Rodgers would have become otherwise. Pretty safe to say he didn't fall out his Mom's vagina slinging incredibly accurate passes all over the place.
He did come out with that arm and brain tho.
Better manager. Better play caller. He had solid assistants like Clipboard Dougie as well.
Put Reid in place of McVince during that run after the Superbowl up to 2014 with Rodgers at the helm. There is no way the same outcome occurs.
Brak posted:Henry postedTake away Rodgers, McVince is nothing.
We'll never know what Rodgers would have become otherwise. Pretty safe to say he didn't fall out his Mom's vagina slinging incredibly accurate passes all over the place.
I would frickin' hope a OC could correct mechanics. It's not like Rodgers prolific career in college all of sudden exploded even more in the NFL because McVince taught him to hold the ball lower on delivery.
My point remains. McVince; decent OC, horrible manager, past the due date in Green Bay. He sure hasn't shown anything in the 1st game that discounts any of my claims. Thanks McVince, it was a good run. Bye bye.
Henry posted:bdplant posted:Henry posted:I just think he's cratered out. A lot of similarities to Andy Reid with the exception of Reid being a better coach.Andy Reid:
Regular season: 184-120-1 (.604)
Postseason: 11-13 (.408)
SB record: 0-1
MM:
Regular season: 121-70–1 (.635)
Postseason: 10-8 (.556)
SB record: 1-0
You know how much those numbers mean when McVince has Rodgers and Reid had Wormburner McNabb? Diddly squat zero.
It's not even a question. If Reid were available after Sherman was fired it wouldn't even be a question as to who everyone would be clamouring for. We would be having a different conversation.
SO FOR EVERYONE ON THE BOARD, IF YOU POST OUT OF CONTEXT, USELESS STATS IT MEANS NOTHING.
Take away Rodgers, McVince is nothing.
I wouldn't say he's nothing, but having one of the greatest QB talents the NFL has ever seen does give him a tremendous advantage over most other coaches. I think the 2 games that really stained McCarthy's legacy were the 49ers loss in 2012 playoffs and of course that God forsaken loss to the Seahawks. Those were winnable games that a better job of coaching would likely have resulted in a win.
If they win that Seattle game we wouldn't even be having this discussion. There were some key coaching errors in that game that gave the Seahawks life and we know the what the unhappy ending was to that awful day. I think a great coach never gets fooled by the Hags like McCarthy's staff got fooled that day. That day was the key divider that cemented McCarthy as being just a pretty good coach and not a great one.
Here's another thought. Jim Johnson. Yeah, that would've sucked to have Jim Johnson as the DC of the Green Bay Packers.
It's not really about who rather the decision making in getting a guy like Jim Johnson.
There's no sense in arguing things like putting Reid in McCarthy's place in 2014. Nobody knows what would have happened. Reid may never have gotten them to that point. They may have won it all. He may have overdosed at Kroll's and died.
Here's to McCarthy not sucking today. Onward and upward.