"Dom Capers **FIRED** was an OUTSTANDING Football Coach"

MichiganPacker posted:

michiganjoe posted:

Always fair to question the talent Dom's had to work with, as his supporters often have done. Also fair to question if Dom has gotten the most out of the talent he's had and the performance of defensive players that have moved on would suggest the answer is no. Think Hundley and the running game are very capable of winning games but the defense has to play a lot better than it's shown to date.

The running game isn't going to win anything until Hundley proves he can threaten defenses downfield. If he can't, the return of peak Ahman Green wouldn't matter if the back is running into 8 and 9 man in the box defenses.

This whole comment may be moot considering the defense but it has only been one game.  Everyone is crawling up the kid's ass after one outing.  Yeah, it doesn't inspire confidence but it was still his first start.  

What's most irritating is a conversation on how the offense can adjust/cope without Rodgers is pointless considering this defense.  I think that's what pisses me off the most.  It doesn't even matter what offense can do because the defense will give it away.  

Silverstein: Clock ticking on Dom Capers' Packers defense

This is the most talent and depth Capers and his defensive staff have had since 2014 at the very least, and possibly since 2010 when the Packers won Super Bowl XLV. Yet for all the strong individual performances the defense has gotten, the cumulative effort has been sorely lacking.

Harsh but fair piece from Silverstein about the failure of Capers and crew.

michiganjoe posted:

Silverstein: Clock ticking on Dom Capers' Packers defense

This is the most talent and depth Capers and his defensive staff have had since 2014 at the very least, and possibly since 2010 when the Packers won Super Bowl XLV. Yet for all the strong individual performances the defense has gotten, the cumulative effort has been sorely lacking.

Harsh but fair piece from Silverstein about the failure of Capers and crew.

“And coach Mike McCarthy will have a decision to make after the season”

He’s had several seasons to make the right decision. It’s time to man up and pull the plug on the Compers era. I feel we’ve been fortunate to have MM as the Packers coach....I hope his loyalty to Dom won’t end up being his downfall. 

Congratulations to Micah.

Good player.  Plays in good defensive scheme and tears it up.

packerboi posted:

ChilliJon posted:. 

Because let’s be honest. There isn’t anybody. ANYBODY, that’s just dying to throw offers at Winston Moss and Edgar Bennett to pry them away from Green Bay. 

Really, it's all of Mike's staff. You don't see Edgar Bennett or Alex Van Pelt sought after either.

Philbin and Mcadoo are his coaching tree. Not exactly a stellar one he's building.

Does Jeff Jagodzinski count ? Last I heard he was back at the HS level. 

Clock ticking???

It reads the same time twice a day!!

Every year since 2011 has been groundhog day for the D.

MM on #Packers D: "We have some outstanding individual performances going on over 7 games, but our unit ... is not where it needs to be."

— Ryan Wood (@ByRyanWood) November 3, 2017

So, total hypothetical but worth the discussion as we all grind our teeth to dust.  

What and whose defensive scheme would you incorporate with the current talent?  

The d-line is more predicated on pass rush rather than hogs playing 2 gap.  You've got a pass rusher in Perry who is a pure 4-3 guy.  You could rotate MLB and SSLB between Matthews, Martinez and Jones.  I'd still stay with man coverage in the backfield.   

Coming out of the bye week, here's how Dom stacks up:

Total defense: 23rd.

3rd down defense (the ability to get off the field): 24th

Points allowed: 20th.

Sacks: 29th 

"Dom Capers is an outstanding football coach"

packerboi posted:

 3rd down defense (the ability to get off the field): 24th 

It's the inordinate amount of third and relatively long they give up they drives me crazy.

It’s hard to look at the personnel on the defense at not envision a 4-3. It does line up pretty well. Completely agree with man coverage. Secondary needs to focus on keeping it simple and doing something well. 

I think Capers is guy who is an intelligent, wizard-like, mad scientist who's akin to a college professor teaching senior Honors Abstract Physics.

The problem is his classroom of players only understands freshman high school Algebra.

In medical school, future physicians are taught it does them no good to use medical terms, flowery language, and spew scientific terminology if your patients have no idea what the fu** your talking about.

And that's something Mr. Wizard  just can't grasp.

KISS: If MM came to his senses and jettisoned Capers, he wouldn't work again.

I think people are desperate to give Capers credit for something.  These guys are football players who understand football.  

It is entirely possible the world has just figured Dom out and he is now easy to scheme against.  

packerboi posted:

Coming out of the bye week, here's how Dom stacks up:

Total defense: 23rd.

3rd down defense (the ability to get off the field): 24th

Points allowed: 20th.

Sacks: 29th 

"Dom Capers is an outstanding football coach"

It's been said before but the constant churning of the roster in the NFL and especially a D&D team like GB is almost like expecting Capers' system (as he runs it) to work in NCAA.  Guys are no longer with the team long enough to advance far enough to be successful within the scheme unless you're a HOFer.

There's a part of me that wants to blame Capers for some of the Packers' defensive ills and yet even some of the great defensive teams like the Patriots and Seahawks have had their struggles at times this year.   The Patriots are close to dead last in yards allowed and we just watched the Seahawks defense nearly blow a game at home that Russell Wilson bailed them out in last weekend.

Sometimes I think that maybe it is time for a change, that maybe there's a guy out there with some fresh ideas who can get more out of this group than Capers is, but I do realize, the scales are heavily favored in offenses right now and it might be wishful thinking to think that anyone can turn the Pack into a dominant defense with the personnel they currently have.  I am not necessarily against a change from Capers as he probably would have been let go at some point under another HC, but McCarthy has given him nine lives.

My one fear would be something like what the 2003/2004 Packers went through.  Ed Donatell was a pretty good DC.  Not a great DC, but not an awful one either, and he was the scapegoat for the 4th and 26 debacle vs. the Eagles.  Flash forward to 2004 and I cannot remember who took over as the DC, but it was an absolute disaster.  The Pack was much worse after the change defensively, and it was the beginning of the end of the Mike Sherman era after that fiasco. 

Who knows... maybe the change from Capers could improve them, but there is always the chance it becomes a disaster like what happened when Mike Sherman pulled the plug on Donatell.

I’d much rather deal with the possibility of disaster than to keep reliving the same disaster. 

The last time Capers defense had real success (Stopping the other team from scoring) was in 2010- when he had a 1st ballot HOF( CWoodson) and 2 guys playing like one at the time (NCollins and CMatthews). That team still gave up 4.7 Y/carry but only gave up 16 passing TDs for the year.

It looks to me Caper's system works well with exceptional talent and barely functions with anything less.

I think those same guys gave up 16,423 yards and 84 points to Arizona in 2009 playoff loss in Dom’s defense. And don’t get me started on the Giants in 2011. 

michiganjoe posted:

MM on #Packers D: "We have some outstanding individual performances going on over 7 games, but our unit ... is not where it needs to be."

— Ryan Wood (@ByRyanWood) November 3, 2017

Maybe it is time that McCarthy starts spending more time with the defense?

Oh that's right, that has already been tried and failed (June 15, 2015):

"McCarthy has been spending more time with the defense. Popping into a cornerbacks meeting room, a linebackers meeting, a defensive line meeting. Leading a full unit discussion. He's providing a daily look at what's running through the quarterback's mind.

Calling McCarthy one of the best offensive minds in the game, defensive coordinator Dom Capers has welcomed the addition of someone who sees the game "through the quarterback's eyes.

It's a different voice from what players are used to hearing.

Inside linebacker Sam Barrington, a player being groomed as the brains of the defense, says McCarthy could be in any position room on any given day. And while defensive players are conditioned to read and react, McCarthy brings an "anticipate factor."

"It's beautiful," Barrington said. "He offers a different perspective that we just don't have. Our defensive coaching staff is phenomenal, but when you have that different perspective of a guy coming in telling you, 'Hey, consider this,' on defense...now it's 'anticipate,' the ball's hiked, read, react."

http://archive.jsonline.com/sp...31z1-307762851.html/

I don't know which is sadder, the continual loop of excuses for the defense or the fact that just 2 seasons ago Sam Barrington was "being groomed as the brains of the defense."

ChilliJon posted:

I’d much rather deal with the possibility of disaster than to keep reliving the same disaster. 

Exactly...   

You can point to numerous implosions over the past several years.    The disaster has already happened, multiple times.   We keep rebuilding in the same flood zone. 

I previously posted that I would've fired Capers after the debacle at SF in the 2012 playoffs. Had MM done the same, we would be in the 4th year of a new guy's defense.
FWIW, looking at DC hires in 2014, there may have been slim pickings in the NFL, so I'm going to assume it would've been a then-NCAA coach. No idea who that may have been, but I think there would've been plenty of qualified candidates.
No guarantee of success, of course, but it's hard to imagine the results being worse.

Both Wade Phillips and the ex-Lion turd Schwartz are doing great this year...

michiganjoe posted:

packerboi posted:

 3rd down defense (the ability to get off the field): 24th 

It's the inordinate amount of third and relatively long they give up they drives me crazy.

And 29th in forcing 3-and-outs !!!

Capers now has the talent to have a good defense. His best players : Daniels, Matthews, Perry, Martinez, Clark, Lowry, Clinton-Dix, King, Burnett, Josh Jones, etc...all have noticeable talent. But he still calls his defense like it has poor talent as in the past. There’s way too much soft zone where guys are running un-covered. It will be 3rd and short and he calls a trap zone where its an easy conversion for the opponent. Or soft zone on a 3rd and long and guys are wide open !!! Easy pickings !! 

He just hasn't adapted to the changing NFL. His defense is predicated on causing the turnover. NFL offenses have changed in how they approach the passing game, and are able to move the ball with less risk against a Capers soft zone defense. 

Time for the Packers to get younger still....at DC. 

Packdog posted:

michiganjoe posted:

packerboi posted:

 3rd down defense (the ability to get off the field): 24th 

It's the inordinate amount of third and relatively long they give up they drives me crazy.

And 29th in forcing 3-and-outs !!!

Capers now has the talent to have a good defense. His best players : Daniels, Matthews, Perry, Martinez, Clark, Lowry, Clinton-Dix, King, Burnett, Josh Jones, etc...all have noticeable talent. But he still calls his defense like it has poor talent as in the past. There’s way too much soft zone where guys are running un-covered. It will be 3rd and short and he calls a trap zone where its an easy conversion for the opponent. Or soft zone on a 3rd and long and guys are wide open !!! Easy pickings !! 

He just hasn't adapted to the changing NFL. His defense is predicated on causing the turnover. NFL offenses have changed in how they approach the passing game, and are able to move the ball with less risk against a Capers soft zone defense. 

Time for the Packers to get younger still....at DC. 

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Biggest problem Capers has is O coordinators knowing how to cause confusion in the secondary. 

Give Dave Aranda a call.  Dude is a talented 3-4 guy. 

The game has not been kind to Dan Compers.  He's gotten stale and his rep is not enough to carry the day. 

turn the page McStupidface or you are next.  Part of being a good leader is knowing when to make bold moves and not let loyalty cloud your judgment.   Figure it out MM or update your resume 

We are three days away from learning how reliant this staff is on Aaron Rodgers. 

Mike has to win Monday night. 

Absolutely!  Will the game be a great revelation?  Or, will I become ...an...Eeyore?    I am actually looking forward to the answer.  

I'm using Lions skill players in almost ALL my daily fantasy games. 

Yeah, that's how convinced I am.

Chance to win thousands!

Tschmack posted:

Give Dave Aranda a call.  Dude is a talented 3-4 guy. 

The game has not been kind to Dan Compers.  He's gotten stale and his rep is not enough to carry the day. 

turn the page McStupidface or you are next.  Part of being a good leader is knowing when to make bold moves and not let loyalty cloud your judgment.   Figure it out MM or update your resume 

Schnelkering. 

Henry posted:

So, total hypothetical but worth the discussion as we all grind our teeth to dust.  

What and whose defensive scheme would you incorporate with the current talent?  

The d-line is more predicated on pass rush rather than hogs playing 2 gap.  You've got a pass rusher in Perry who is a pure 4-3 guy.  You could rotate MLB and SSLB between Matthews, Martinez and Jones.  I'd still stay with man coverage in the backfield.   

I’m in favor of the “Not Capers” defense.

YATittle posted:

KISS: If MM came to his senses and jettisoned Capers, he wouldn't work again.

Wait! You mean , when they complete 20 passes in a row down the middle of the field on us it’s not just dumb luck?

Goalline posted:

YATittle posted:

KISS: If MM came to his senses and jettisoned Capers, he wouldn't work again.

Wait! You mean , when they complete 20 passes in a row down the middle of the field on us it’s not just dumb luck?

Just dumb

One thing we have not discussed regarding the defense is Daniels & is his injury limiting him. Was his total dominance in the Seattle game just a byproduct of how bad their interior o-line was.....or has he not been the same player since that game because of injury? Not saying that he has played poorly, but not nearly as disruptive. Looking forward to Lions game to see if the bye week helped him. 

Good question.  I don't normally notice but previous couple of games it really looked like Daniels was taking yet giving a beating.  Obviously not a huge revelation but it just seemed like Daniels and Clark were going overtime trying to make up for ****ty pass rush or conversely Clark and Daniels were taking extra heat because no one feared the pass rush.  Random observation.