"Dom Capers **FIRED** was an OUTSTANDING Football Coach"

Packers defense looked awful vs PIT.... Poor tackling, soft coverage, terrible body language and lacked enthusiasm.

What does this defense do well? What do they make an offense stress about? What does the defense 'take away' with it's strength?

— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) November 28, 2017

I loved the effort/hustle from Mike Daniels... I know what Daniels brings every game. You know what you're getting. But the 10-15 other guys need to look themselves in the mirror... This defense isn't good enough.

— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) November 28, 2017

Yep. Martinez doesn't do **** out there.

I will say that about 1/2 of the d players have checked out, but some continue to play hard.  50 is one of them, 20, 76 are a few off the top, but I think they are getting sick of playing for this coach - I know I am getting sick of watching the 2 high safeties disappear off the screen 5 seconds before the snap.

I think Fennell goes a little overboard, but he's right on the first part. I don't agree on the second part. There are a lot of guys hustling out there. Martinez and Ryan don't lack for effort. King is out there playing with one arm. Burnett isn't afraid to stick his nose in on run support.

I think the problem is what many posters have said here about Capers. His system is stale and after 20+ years of tape from his days at Carolina, Houston, and Green Bay any experienced QB knows exactly what coverage they are getting, especially if they motion a guy to get a pre-snap read. Capers attitude is Bo Ryan-esque. They figure if they run the scheme perfectly, it doesn't matter what the other guy does. The problem is that his scheme really needs elite level DB play to work. The DBs this year are better, but still not elite.

That worked when he had a team in 2010 with a ton of experience at key positions to line everyone up and make the calls (Woodson, Collins, AJ Hawk) and the rest of the defense having All-Pro level talent at many of the other positions (the 2010 versions of CM3, Raji, Cullen Jenkins, Pickett, and Tramon Williams). In 2017, the defense really struggles when the experienced guys have to sit out (mainly Morgan Burnett) and they don't have the top secondary in the league in coverage . In 2010, 4 of their top 5 secondary guys were Pro Bowl level guys (Woodson, Collins, Tramon, and Shields).

Packers desperately need to figure out a way to generate a pass rush. Better QBs will continue to carve them up with all day in the pocket. Investment in Nick Perry so far isn't paying off particularly well.

Missed tackles have been a problem for the Packers for a long time.  Even so, McGinn had them down for 19 missed tackles on Sunday which is a terrible number.  I kind of question if the Packers even practice tackling at all these days.  Writers at the Journal-Sentinel have made some snide remarks like "if you can even call what the Packers do a practice."  Would like to know if the Packers even use all the "full pads" practices they are allowed, or if they just go without pads for many of those.  Considering the last 7 or whatever special teams coordinators haven't fielding good units in back-to-back seasons, I also wonder how much time and effort the organization puts into special teams play.  More and more it seems like the Packers just want to play "basketball on grass" which can work if you have an elite quarterback that can out-duel most other offenses. 

michiganjoe posted:

Packers desperately need to figure out a way to generate a pass rush. 

Clark & Clay were out vs. Pittsburgh. I know everyone says "next man up" but you just don't automatically replace that level of pass rush & DT taking up 3 OL.

Nick Perry played ok I thought vs. Pittsburgh. He was the 1 guy getting pressure on Ben.

We need a new DC. Scheme is stale & division 3 teams are licking their chops to face the Packer D. Game has passed him by. Time to move along. 

Thanks for the 1 Super Bowl Victory Dom!

MM said the tackling was the worse it has been vs Pitt. I dont know. Getting a hand and eventually get them to the ground is better than playing against Atlanta and watching the backs of the jersey go downfield. 

RE: Burnett. The reason you're seeing him dinged up is because he's not built to play like a LB which is what this "Nitro" package the Wizard came up with to throw him into. Not to mention it's a contract year for him and I am sure he's none to pleased he keeps getting hurt playing a position he never trained/bulked up for.

This defense has a history of guys miscast or drafted from positions in college they were never meant to play in the pro's. Fackrell is getting more noticed because he's actually being moved more inside now. Perry during his early years was rushing from the "wrong side" so to speak until FINALLY Capers figured out he was far more effective consistently on one side.

Datone Jones should have never been drafted to play in a 3-4.

I don't know how much of this is Capers trying to re-invent his players or getting orders from MM or Ted to try and fit square pegs into round holes.

But it's not working and hasn't worked for years now.

In my opinion, MM is in Coughlin land. Two-time Super Bowl winning coach he was that lost his team. I see the same from MM. Does TT?

Usual shelf life of coaches is 10 years in an organization - Yes there are exceptions.

I'm fine with MM - He has brilliant offensive schemes & our WR's are almost always wide open. 

What I'm not fine with is MM holding onto Dom like he's his first born.

If MM won't get rid of Dom, then MM has to go too.

A lot of guys miss tackles on Leveon Bell and Antonio Brown. I don't subscribe to McGinn's new blog, but I'd want to know what is a typical number of missed tackles for a team playing them.

It's a lot different if you are missing tackles against Leveon Bell than if you miss tackles against a guy like Rich Rodgers.

Brainwashed Boris posted:

Usual shelf life of coaches is 10 years in an organization - Yes there are exceptions.

I'm fine with MM - He has brilliant offensive schemes & our WR's are almost always wide open. 

What I'm not fine with is MM holding onto Dom like he's his first born.

If MM won't get rid of Dom, then MM has to go too.

I am very fine with MM and I think that he can still coach some pretty good offenses and I do think he still has the players playing hard for him.  I for one am not however ready to say MM has to go.  The problem with this team this year and most years is defensive schemes.  I believe that teams have figured Dom out and know that you can get receivers wide open over the middle with enough running room even I could get a first down. 

I still believe that there is talent on this defense it is just so badly coached and the scheme is so stale but if they get some new blood in there coaching them just watch them turn in to a very good defense.  I truly believe that.

Brainwashed Boris posted:

Usual shelf life of coaches is 10 years in an organization - Yes there are exceptions.

I'm fine with MM - He has brilliant offensive schemes & our WR's are almost always wide open. 

What I'm not fine with is MM holding onto Dom like he's his first born.

If MM won't get rid of Dom, then MM has to go too.

This. Dom must have some awfully incriminating photos of MM for him to stick around so long. Either that or loyalty is waaaaay tooooo high on MM's list of attributes a head coach must have.

"Tissue soft zone defense of the Packers....."

Remember the play all too well, unfortunately.

Jones took a bad angle on that play and took Martinez(IIRC) out in the process.

Dom needs to trust the youngsters in man.

Not really sure what HHCD was doing on the play. Puzzling as to why his play has regressed so much this year.

I see three guys in the middle that did not have a clue where to go and two on the back end who were so far out of the play that they were worthless. Ben must have been laughing trying to decide which of his open guys to throw to, and he chose well. That's coaching, coaching, coaching. Or rather, non-coaching.

Tackling technique leaves a lot to be desired (looks like more of a knock the guy to ground rather than hit wrap and take to the ground). I do think Fennell is off on his effort comment guys like Martinez King Jones Clark at least to my eyes give it all they got. Dix however looks lost mentally and physically, something is really wrong there. 

I believe the NFL respects DC because he's a 'geeneous' but the caliber of players are grade 10 level at best.

I hate to think of TT drafting some stud defensive player(s) only to shorten their careers  by giving them to Capers. We need to look now for someone to take over for aging players like Matthews and to bring in someone to replace Capers as DC.

DB's -  King is the only one I'm happy about being a Packer.   Randall has talent, so maybe I don't look to replace him, but everyone else can walk.   HaHa sucks, I will forever remember how pathetic he looked on that 2 point conversion against Seattle.    Combine that with him now bitching out in the run game, one of my least liked Packers.

LB's -  I think we have a decent group here but no play makers now that Clay is old.   Perry is solid, but he isn't ever going to be Clay in his prime.    Martinez is playing well, but years of watching dog **** makes fans think he is better than he is.   Also, consider he has Daniels and Clark destroying doubles in front of him.  He is clean 90% of the time. 

DL's - Daniels is a stud and Clark was looking dominant.   Everyone else can take a hike.

The real problem is the secondary and the schemes.   In other words, same ole ****.

I'm down with the HHCD dislike.  He's playing horribly.  Absolute trash.  I don't even know if he's ever in position anymore.  Deion Sanders was a better tackler than he is right now.  He has got to be one of the worst safeties in the league right now.  This isn't sudden.  It's been going on for two years now.  

I'd rather see Evans or Whitehead.

He needs to be benched, then released.

If HHCD goes to another team he will thrive. The problem is not the players. It’s DC

bigdoggyjude posted:

If HHCD goes to another team he will thrive. The problem is not the players. It’s DC

YUP!

BrainDed posted:

DB's -  King is the only one I'm happy about being a Packer.   Randall has talent, so maybe I don't look to replace him, but everyone else can walk.   HaHa sucks, I will forever remember how pathetic he looked on that 2 point conversion against Seattle.    Combine that with him now bitching out in the run game, one of my least liked Packers.

LB's -  I think we have a decent group here but no play makers now that Clay is old.   Perry is solid, but he isn't ever going to be Clay in his prime.    Martinez is playing well, but years of watching dog **** makes fans think he is better than he is.   Also, consider he has Daniels and Clark destroying doubles in front of him.  He is clean 90% of the time. 

DL's - Daniels is a stud and Clark was looking dominant.   Everyone else can take a hike.

The real problem is the secondary and the schemes.   In other words, same ole ****.

Agree on DBs, but I'll also keep Jones in a year or two when he gets some experience, and Burnett is getting the snot beat out of him in that Nitro package but he plays. King will be very solid and Randall has a horseshoe up his butt to get those INTs and lucky bounces. It also seems like he's learned a little bit on how to be a better pro.

LBs: I don't care if Martinez is clean 90% of the time, he's making solid plays and he makes them early rather than Hawk-waiting until the RB comes to him five yards beyond the LOS. He's been solid in coverage and while he's not a thumper in the middle, he is solid. He's the least of the LB problems (see Health: Perry, Matthews).

DLs and secondary/scheme: Agree.  

Pass Plays of 10+yds Allowed...

1. JAX 83
2. PIT 93

31. TEN 139
32. GB 141

— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) December 6, 2017

Dead last.

Packers Defense Scoring Efficiency...

Scores (FGs & TDs) / Total Drives = Scoring Efficiency

'09 25.3% (4th)
'10 25.3% (2nd)
'11 33.9% (21st)
'12 33.3% (16th)
'13 38.9% (28th)
'14 33.1% (16th)
'15 31.3% (9th)
'16 40.7% (27th)
'17 40.6% (30th)

— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) December 6, 2017

Let me guess, you don't think Dom is an outstanding football coach.

bigdoggyjude posted:

If HHCD goes to another team he will thrive. The problem is not the players. It’s DC

This is what will happen with Matthews as well.  As soon as everyone starts saying he isn't worth the contract he'll sign with a team that knows how to use him and he'll light it up.  The guy is all effort and always has been.  Even with injuries he will help the right team win a Superbowl.  

michiganjoe posted:

Packers Defense Scoring Efficiency...

Scores (FGs & TDs) / Total Drives = Scoring Efficiency

'09 25.3% (4th)
'10 25.3% (2nd)
'11 33.9% (21st)
'12 33.3% (16th)
'13 38.9% (28th)
'14 33.1% (16th)
'15 31.3% (9th)
'16 40.7% (27th)
'17 40.6% (30th)

— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) December 6, 2017

There's a pattern at the last 3-4 stops in his career.

Defensive points against rank

Carolina Head Coach (1995-1998)

1995 8th, 1996 2nd, 1997 13th, 1998 27th - Fired

Jacksonville DC (1999-2000)

1999 4th, 2000 9th

Houston Head Coach (2002-2005)

2002 20th, 2003 27th, 2004 15th, 2005 32nd - Fired

Miami DC (2006-2007)

2006 5th, 2007 30th

Henry posted:

bigdoggyjude posted:

If HHCD goes to another team he will thrive. The problem is not the players. It’s DC

This is what will happen with Matthews as well.  As soon as everyone starts saying he isn't worth the contract he'll sign with a team that knows how to use him and he'll light it up.  The guy is all effort and always has been.  Even with injuries he will help the right team win a Superbowl.  

Should we just award him to the Patriots on waivers right now?

Exactly what I was thinking. 

Yet Capers lives to coach some more.  

(He can live, just not as a coach.)

#Packers Defensive Issues... Getting off the field.

Scoring Efficiency - 39.9% (31st)
RZ Scoring Efficiency - 100% (32nd)

3rd Down Conversions - 44.4% (30th)
3rd Down Completion % - 69.7% (32nd)
10 Play Drives - 28 (31st)
5 Minute Drives - 24 (32nd)

— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) December 12, 2017

Scoring Efficiency and  10-play Drives:   "we're not last!   We're not last!"

come on...everybody now:   "We're not last!   We're not last!"

I think that's the new chant at Lambeau Field ?

Man, that's just...pitiful. 

This is all talent based. TT needs to give Dom much better working parts. 

How can he be expected to function as an  outstanding football  coach without a minimum 8 Hall of famers on defense?

packerboi posted:

#Packers Defensive Issues... Getting off the field.

Scoring Efficiency - 39.9% (31st)
RZ Scoring Efficiency - 100% (32nd)

3rd Down Conversions - 44.4% (30th)
3rd Down Completion % - 69.7% (32nd)
10 Play Drives - 28 (31st)
5 Minute Drives - 24 (32nd)

— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) December 12, 2017

Why I'm skeptical that the return of AR will be enough- Dom's defense is garbage.