"Dom Capers **FIRED** was an OUTSTANDING Football Coach"

MichiganPacker posted:

PackerJoe posted:

Part of the pitch-and-catch against the horrid Packer defense has to be attributed to the front office.

Defensive back snap counts in the Panther game:

S - Clinton-Dix = 75

CB - Randall = 75

S - Burnett = 75

S - Jones = 70

CB - Hawkins = 59

S - Whitehead = 16

S - Evans = 4

CB - Pipkins = 4

Too bad the GM decided years ago that he only works one weekend out of the year.  I really don't understand how a defense is not going to get shredded against the pass when they only have two cornerbacks and one of them is probably only practice squad material for over half the teams in the league.

TT has missed badly on some recent premium picks (Spriggs being an obvious one), but I still think there is substantial talent on the defense.

It's one thing if you have AJ Hawk trying to run with a RB in pass coverage - that's a talent gap and TT was guilty of not fixing that for years. It's another thing when the opposing receivers are uncovered on blown coverages game after game, year after year. The Greg Olsen TD where he runs untouched and uncovered for a TD shouldn't happen in a high school game. It's not like he ran some incredible route. He literally did not even do anything than run straight ahead. That type of thing happens often with multiple defensive players over many years.

I agree, there have been way too many blown coverages and simply bad defenses over the last few years.  Blown coverages have as much or more to do with position coaches than the defensive coordinator.  I firmly believe that Capers and the entire defensive staff should be dismissed at year's end.

Totally disagree with the substantial talent on the defensive side of the ball.  When the team lines up with 2 cornerbacks (one is practice squad material IMO), that is not substantial talent.  It is known that the way to beat Carolina is to hit Newton a couple times early in the game and then he wants to cry and go home to momma but again the pass-rush was pretty much non-existent.  The NFL gamebook has 2 hits on the QB, the sack by Clark and what I thought was a pretty good lick from Brooks.  How often does one of the defensive linemen or outside linebackers win a one-on-one matchup against an offensive lineman?  Not nearly enough.

bigdoggyjude posted:

I don’t get the player talent gripes. Hayward Hyde and peppers are doing well on their new teams. Let’s see how it goes with dom out. Put MM on notice by taking choice to fire Dom out if his hands. TT has a stay of execution in my mind but I would not be concerned if he chose to step down. I’d like to see MM focus on offensive creativity and get competency to run DC and ST. 

Hyde is still targeted a lot because of his speed deficiencies, even at safety, but he's capitalized on QBs big mistakes, just like always. The Bills are an oddly fun team to watch because they're not a textbook "good" team but they're winning some anyway. It helps that McCoy is a stud back and having a great season.

Hungry5 posted:

PackerJoe posted:

Part of the pitch-and-catch against the horrid Packer defense has to be attributed to the front office.

Defensive back snap counts in the Panther game:

S - Clinton-Dix = 75

CB - Randall = 75

S - Burnett = 75

S - Jones = 70

CB - Hawkins = 59

S - Whitehead = 16

S - Evans = 4

CB - Pipkins = 4

Did not play vs CAR:

CB's - King, Rollins, House

S - Brice

Say what you will, but all have contributed in '17 and would have helped yesterday.

When you are playing Safeties as your nickel CB (Burnett & Whitehead), you are digging deep. 

Now, tell me who Thompson should have had waiting in the wings when the injuries hit? Because everyone gets injuries, especially by week 15.

The issue has become a stale message on the defensive side.

The Cam/Clay exchange is a classic example. Clay recognized the wheel route and called it, then Cam knew exactly how to counter - predictable/stale from Dom.

The injury thing is a complete bullsh#t excuse.

This is football and the expectation should be that players will get injured so why should the organization have that as an excuse?

Kevin King - Had the shoulder injury coming out of college.  Whitt acknowledged the Packers knew of the shoulder injury shortly after he arrived at rookie orientation.  King tore the labrum as a freshmen, had surgery to repair it and admitted he hurt it again while still in school.  His breaking down at the end of the season should have been anticipated and there should have been a backup plan. 

Quinten Rollins - Not even sure why his injury would be considered to have a big negative impact since he's not a very good player to begin with.  He was down to 7 snaps on defense in game three and 1 snap on defense in game four.  But if you want to play the game that he was a big loss then I'll point out that his last game was October 15 so the GM had 2 months to figure out how to find an adequate replacement and didn't get the job done.

You said it yourself, "Because everyone gets injuries, especially by week 15."  It's too bad every time this organization has an in-season injury, the solution is to look at the training camp depth chart and give whoever was the next guy on the list a phone call.  Woah, our starting cornerback just got hurt.  Let's take the backup and make him a starter, and then put the rookie practice squad guy from South Carolina State on the 53 man roster (whether he is ready to play or not), and then let's sign that rookie from East Texas Baptist to the practice squad because he could be a keeper.  And do that a few times and by week 15 the team ends up being a 43 man roster and spots #44-#53 are practice squad #1 and then the practice squad is practice squad #2 and all the fans can throw up their hands and say, "injuries, what can we do, we are so snake-bitten" and the organization has a built in excuse which is bullsh#t because this is a physical game and players get hurt.

Good thing Wolf picked up Andre Rison when he did because that guy helped Green Bay win a Super Bowl.  This organization should look back because they could learn a few things from that last guy that was in charge.  To bad the current GM only wants to work one weekend out of the year.

Speaking of, I think Ahmad Brooks has been a good addition to the defense

PackerJoe posted:

Hungry5 posted:

PackerJoe posted:

Part of the pitch-and-catch against the horrid Packer defense has to be attributed to the front office.

Defensive back snap counts in the Panther game:

S - Clinton-Dix = 75

CB - Randall = 75

S - Burnett = 75

S - Jones = 70

CB - Hawkins = 59

S - Whitehead = 16

S - Evans = 4

CB - Pipkins = 4

Did not play vs CAR:

CB's - King, Rollins, House

S - Brice

Say what you will, but all have contributed in '17 and would have helped yesterday.

When you are playing Safeties as your nickel CB (Burnett & Whitehead), you are digging deep. 

Now, tell me who Thompson should have had waiting in the wings when the injuries hit? Because everyone gets injuries, especially by week 15.

The issue has become a stale message on the defensive side.

The Cam/Clay exchange is a classic example. Clay recognized the wheel route and called it, then Cam knew exactly how to counter - predictable/stale from Dom.

The injury thing is a complete bullsh#t excuse. 

To bad the current GM only wants to work one weekend out of the year.

As idiotic a statement as I have seen on x4.....& We've had some beauts.

When you have about 5 players on the planet who can play the game at a high level & 4 of them are on other teams, that's a problem that cannot be easily replaced. Why waste salary cap on a "veteran" guy when the "cheapie" UDFA is playing about as well & might....GASP.... improve?!?!?

Yeah TT just blows in on draft weekend & prays he gets lucky picking players. 

Think before you hit the "post now" button. 

ChilliJon posted:

TT and MM need a real come to Jesus discussion ahead of the offseason. 

For the second consecutive year. A team with possibly the best QB in NFL history was in a win or go home position 5 weeks before the end of the season. Yes, they had to deal with Rodgers injury this year but that doesn’t explain the Detroit and Baltimore disasters while AR was out. Nick Foles steps in for Wentz yesterday. Throws 4TDs. No INTs. And wins a division game on the road. Being in a do or die situation starting around week 10 should never happen if your QB is Aaron Rodgers. 

GB has had one round one playoff bye the last 5 years. One!?!?!? With the best QB football has ever witnessed. Unacceptable.

So while it’s past due for Capers to be fired. Mike can’t stop there. He needs a complete top down review of changes needed to give Rodgers far more support. Because this “just scrape into the playoffs and let’s see if Aaron can carry us home” **** has to end. And if he won’t do it he needs to go as well. 

<<<THIS>>>

See the statistic yesterday? GB defense has allowed 55 points on other teams' first drives this year. The next closest team has allowed 42. 

Earlier I posted how all those first drives went, and that GB has more TDs on its first drive than any other team. Yet it's gawd-awful how often GB starts behind on the scoreboard when our O gets the ball on its first drive, or ends up tied after the other team's first drive. Sickening. 

Hungry5 posted:

The Cam/Clay exchange is a classic example. Clay recognized the wheel route and called it, then Cam knew exactly how to counter - predictable/stale from Dom.

My favorite part of that exchange is McCaffrey still could have run the wheel route and not had a defender within 5 yards of him. 

Countering the fact Clay knew it was coming wasn't even needed. The Packers defense was still so confused and unclear on assignments and POORLY FUKKING COACHED that even had Carolina run the route they knew was coming McCaffrey would have strolled untouched into the end zone. WIDE FREAKING OPEN. Hell, sticking with the wheel was less risky.  

Injuries:
Having starters out definitely hurts, no doubt about it. But they aren't the reason the Packers lost yesterday, or on many occasions before. The truth of the matter is we could have 11 All-Pros playing on defense and the outcomes would still be the same.
When brilliant offensive minds like Hue Jackson and Jim Bob Cooter can exploit a defense designed and operated by a coach with over 30 years of experience..... well, the results are predictable.

Carolina had a starting OL out yesterday, yet their performance didn't suffer one iota. Wonder why that is?
Incidentally, that's something the Packers have encountered many times over the last few years, and the results have been strikingly similar. The only assumption I can make is other team's #2's are better than our #1's.

I'll simplify that.  X OC > DC.

The defense didn't throw 3 interceptions.

However, the offense came within a whisker of overcoming those interceptions. I might even argue they did.
The defense can't overcome their gaffes.

 Was all excited when the defense only gave up 10 points at the half, expecting it to continue in the second half is being a blind homer fan when you have Doms defense. Stockholm syndrome. 

Third quarter was disastrous on both sides of the ball for the Packers.

This team does not have a margin of error that allows AR to be anything less than outstanding.  When he is "average", the D isn't good enough to help the O out and win a game for them.  They could have done that yesterday if CAR's receivers weren't mowing the lawn all afternoon.  An average D should be able to do that but that seems like a bar set too high.

all of this is white noise, the proof is in the pudding, has been for 5 years now.  time to go, i would say to be a consultant or something, but. nah. bye now.

3rd and 10, no prob, we'll give you 20 just to be sure, how many times has that happened in forever...

TT and MM bear more blame for keeping Dom'd from the start around.

Clean house.

GBFanForLife posted:

The defense didn't throw 3 interceptions.

You are absolutely, 100%, unequivocally correct: the Packers defense did not, in fact, throw 3 interceptions. In fact, I think the franchise stats for defensive interceptions thrown stands at zero. That might be a league record, but I'm not sure. I'll look that up and report back.

What I am sure about, is that the "defense" let Olsen average almost 13 yards per catch, let McCaffrey average just over 12 yards per catch, let Byrd catch 3 passes for 25 yards, let Funchess get one catch for 19 yards, and let Stewart get 1 catch for 9 yards. All in all, the "defense" allowed over 12 yards per completed pass.

Even though Dom's "defense" was fortunate enough not throw a single interception yesterday (and all season for that matter), they gave up 31 points, 21 of them in the second half. They allowed, as is the norm, receivers to frolic in open space a majority of the game. They refused to contain the run outside of the tackles. And let Cam trash-talk, and dominate, the redzone.

And just in case you missed it:

#Packers Defense. ☠️

3rd Down Completion %: 69.0% (32nd)
3rd Down Conversions: 44.8% (30th)

Scoring Efficiency: 40.3% (31st)
TD Efficiency: 23.5% (32nd)

RZ Scoring Efficiency: 100% (32nd)
RZ TD Efficiency: 69.2% (31st)

5 Minute Drives: 26 (T-32nd)
10 Play Drives: 30 (30th)

— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) December 18, 2017

The failures of this "defense" season over season are only made worse by the blind loyalty that not only allows it to continue, but defends it as "outstanding" coaching. The era of the organization's "we do things differently" and we "draft and develop from within" is over. Yea, the Packers do things differently, yea the Packers don't participate in FA to any meaningful degree, yea the Packers draft and develops--and it's failed. The last two times the Packers actually participated meaningfully in FA it ended in Super Bowl victories (e.g., Dotson, White, Woodson). A lot of people in the organization need to soul search now that there is nothing to play for.

P.S. - I just looked up the stat I mentioned above. Sadly, it's not a record outright, but we are tied in the defensive thrown interceptions category with every other professional football team that has ever played.

So your saying throwing 3 interceptions has no affect on the defense.

Of course it does but the D should be able to overcome once in a blue moon when AR throws them.  They almost did if GA doesn't fumble - WR depth is the other deficiency that doomed us yesterday.  But the margin of error is so razor thin that they could not afford 3 INT's on top of CAR receivers mowing lawn all afternoon.  

El-Ka-Bong posted:

Speaking of, I think Ahmad Brooks has been a good addition to the defense

Yep, agreed on August 30, officially signed on September 3, first Packer game on September 10.  So when it was obvious Fackrell wasn't very good and Biegel was injured, Thompson stepped up and made the move that was necessary.  Thompson shouldn't have stopped there, it's too bad he decided to take the rest of the fall/winter off.  Brooks helped, and I've sure over the course of the last three months there were cornerbacks floating around out there that could have helped too.  But as it turns out, the legendary Demetri Goodson was Thompson's ace in the hole.  So Thompson activates him and puts him on the 53 man roster when he has a hamstring injury and can't even play...and two games later the Packers end up with only two cornerbacks playing due to this brilliant roster management.

Not like Demetri Goodson is any good even when he is healthy.

GBFanForLife posted:

The defense didn't throw 3 interceptions.

what the living **** point are you trying to make with your last 16 posts?  

Brainwashed Boris posted:

If anyone has the same waist size from 25 to 50 years of age, please let us in on your secret.

Smaller!

Blair Kiel posted:

I have the waist of a big-boned 15 year old girl (32”) 

Roy Moore keeps texting me.

Easiest lay he ever had. Didn't even have to sneak into the mall to hook up.

Problem with Brooks is he missed half the season with back issues.  Again, no history of injuries but sure enough...  If he returns I hope his back is good to go or he's another guy sinking a roster spot for 8 games.  Could be interesting if they are able to get Fangio in, his former DC in SF.

NumberThree posted:

GBFanForLife posted:

The defense didn't throw 3 interceptions.

You are absolutely, 100%, unequivocally correct: the Packers defense did not, in fact, throw 3 interceptions. In fact, I think the franchise stats for defensive interceptions thrown stands at zero. That might be a league record, but I'm not sure. I'll look that up and report back.

What I am sure about, is that the "defense" let Olsen average almost 13 yards per catch, let McCaffrey average just over 12 yards per catch, let Byrd catch 3 passes for 25 yards, let Funchess get one catch for 19 yards, and let Stewart get 1 catch for 9 yards. All in all, the "defense" allowed over 12 yards per completed pass.

Even though Dom's "defense" was fortunate enough not throw a single interception yesterday (and all season for that matter), they gave up 31 points, 21 of them in the second half. They allowed, as is the norm, receivers to frolic in open space a majority of the game. They refused to contain the run outside of the tackles. And let Cam trash-talk, and dominate, the redzone.

 

This part is actually pretty impressive. Funchess is their #1 receiver and while Stewart has lost receptions to McCaffrey, he's been a good receiver. This, again, seemingly indicates there's a talent issue. 

For the "turn the roster over" folks, are we ready to have 3 or 4 hardcore losing seasons to get those high draft picks?  I'm not (I'm also not of the opinion that the team has talented players and a QB who can elevate the team to dominance).  I do think that replacing Dom and a quality draft could bring this team back to 12+ wins.  

Draft, trades and FA.....all done wisely of course.   No need to blow it up.  

Oh, get rid of Dom now and get in on the new DC before the good ones are gone.  

Huge offseason for us. We have 12 draft choices, with 8 of those picks right now slated to be in the first 5 rounds. Right now we are picking 16th. 

Would love to know the degree of Wolf's input in to the last draft and the next draft.

Why is Dom Ass still here? Good grief. Either MM lets his blue Linus blankie go, or he can leave with him. Enough.

Fire the entire coaching staff and hire Gruden, that mofo can motivate!

Gruden has a cush job and no interest in coaching again. He just throws his hat into the mix as a weak attempt to stay relevant. 

Can people start getting fired tomorrow morning please?

Hey TT/MM. Now that you went from one of the few SB favorites to missing the playoffs can you please fault something other than injuries or players?. Perhaps you can look at the body of work Dom has turned in over the past few years and the ground swell of criticism now available. It’s ok to fire before the end of the lost season. No one will think it is the wrong move. 

bdplant posted:

Gruden has a cush job and no interest in coaching again. He just throws his hat into the mix as a weak attempt to stay relevant. 

Gruden was a .500 coach in TB winning only with a Dungy team on the doorstep of the SB when he took over. 

The way i figure it, 2018 will have to be the year of major name player cuts, and a tactical and quick re-tooling with a new regime.

Spring Cut: Cobb, Matthews, Bulaga, Goodson, Kendricks, Q. Rollins, Hawkins, Brice
Extend(yrs):  Adams(5), Evans(1), Goode(1), Burnett (4), Linsley(3), House(2), Dial(2)

Working with the extensions from Sport Trac / estimated value - the Packers would be left with 30-33M in cap room and 40 players on roster +8 in the draft (minus costs of signing players).  Obviously, there could be 5-10 other minor cuts depending on evaluations from the new GM on second stringers/special teams.

30M in free agency would allow us one splashy FA and shots at retreads or players that did not catch on their past team.  

I dont think Hundley increased his value in his exhibition.  It would have been nice had he done that, we would be looking at a minimum a 2nd round pick in this upcoming draft for his services, now I just dont see the upside in dealing him this spring unless he plays the next 2 games and shows something out there.

Team could look something like this:

QB: Rodgers, Hundley
FB: Ripkowski
RB: Williams, Jones, Mays
WR/RB: Montgomery
WR: Nelson, Adams, Davis, FA, DP
TE: FA, FA, DP

LT: Bak
LG: Taylor
C: Linsley
RG: Evans
RT: Spriggs

OL Bench:  K. Murphy, DP, DP, FA
K: Crosby
P: Vogel
LS: FA

DL: Daniels, Clark, Adams, Lowry, Dial, DP, FA
LB: Perry, Fackrell, Biegel, Martinez, A. Brooks, J. Ryan, DP, DP, FA 
CB: House, Randall, King, FA, FA, DP  
S: Jones, Burnett, Clinton-Dix, FA  
 

Looking at the FA crop, i dont know if I would go for a splashy player this season: Guys like Kyle Fuller or Prince Amukamara or both would be a nice addition to our CB mess.  At TE we could use a guy like Tyler Eifert if he could stay healthy.  OLB is pretty weak in this FA class, it will need to be addressed in the first 3 rounds of the 2018 draft.  

A guy that might be willing to take a 1 year deal to re-establish value for himself:  Allen Robinson (WR).  

We currently own 8 picks in the 2018 NFL Draft (originals + 7th from Buffalo).

Example 4 rd Mock Draft for what I have above  (7-9 finish 13th overall pick):
1. Clellin Ferrell - DE Clemson (Trade down to 20, acquire 2nd in 2019)

2. Mark Andrews - TE Oklahoma

3. Josh Allen - LB - Kentucky  (trade up top of 3rd) / lose 4th round pick 2019

4. Braden Smith - G - Auburn

Who's making all those FA moves and DPs? 

And you only made 8 DPs, and GB has 12 picks. That's a lot of pick trading.