Fire TT and MM!

Pack TB

20 First Downs 17

404 Total Net Yards 279

170 Net Yards Rushing 81

234 NET YARDS PASSING 198



6-32 Times sacked: Number-Yards 1-7

114 TOTAL RETURN YARDAGE 247

4-18 Punt Returns: Number-Yards 4-54

5-83 Kickoff Returns: Number-Yards 2-107

5-35 PENALTIES: Number-Yards 2-15


Wow...what a surprise. Sacks, penalties, and special teams. Next week will be the same thing.

I mentioned it in another thread but the Packers have only scored 1 TD when they've had a drive where they were sacked. THey showed a graphic it is 3% of the time they score when sacked. Meanwhile when they aren't sacked they score a td at over 35% of the time. I'd say at this point it's probably 50/50 on OL to blame and Rodgers just holding the ball too damn long.

Sometimes a player who isn't good enough to do what they are supposed to do, end up getting penalties....espectially holding...(see the play where Rodgers ran for a first down in the last 3 minutes and it was called back).

I think TT is a fault here too.

Coaching is supposed to pull out a victory in a close game once in a while.

Wake me up when ours does.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

(keeping the game close because we're constantly stepping on our foreskin doesn't count)

quote:

Originally posted by Monroe:
The other tidbit we need to revisit is the fact that Thompson was often credited for building the Seattle team that went to the Super Bowl in 2005, a reason to believe in his mantra.

If Thompson really did get all that credit he shouldn't have. For most of those years prior the guy running the football operations was Mike Reinfeldt. Thompson was the "V.P.-football operations" but Mike Reinfeldt was the "Senior vice president" and he was the guy who was ultimately responsible for building the team (they had no typical "General Manager" but Reinfeldt was that guy). Reinfeldt did leave after the 2002 season and Seattle hired a GM at that point (Bob Ferguson) but it was widely reported at that time the football deciscions were handed to Thompson and Ferguson focused more on business aspects. So even though Thompson was never officially a "GM," he served in that role with the Seahawks from 2003-2004. Before that it was Reinfeldt.

Not to sell Thompson short in his time with the Seahawks because he was a major player in the evaluations that were made. But from the information I got, he was really only the guy in charge from 2003 to 2004. So while he had significant input in the Seahawk's success, I wouldn't go as far as saying that he built those Seahawk teams. Most of the main building blocks (Matt Hasselbeck, Shaun Alexander, Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson) were there when Thompson took over. Thompson did add some key pieces like Grant Winstrom, Marcus Trufant and Ken Hamlin to the mix during those two years he was in charge.

quote:

Originally posted by grbaypack:
I'd like to hear Mark Murphy say that he expects the Packers to be a playoff level team this year. Then it puts the heat on TT, MM, and the players to get that goal accomplished. Anything less than a playoff spot and heads would roll.

Set the tone then back it up by firing the OL coach and the "special" teams coach tonight/tomorrow. if not in the playoffs see ya MM

You know LB....I was thinking the the halftime score could have easily been 28-0.

How can you let a middle man go untouched to the punter?

Why on earth are you throwing long passes on the second series, when you already have a lead and can take advantage of using the run? By the way, this is not hindsight...when the Packers got the ball the second time, I specifically said..."OK, now establish the run"

How do you let a team go 90 yards for a field goal at the end of the half?

So what you said about keeping the games close is so true. I bet at 21-7 or 21-0 the game would have been over, with a much better outcome.

(Boy this season seems very Ray Rhodes like)

Yeah and the post game mantra is very similar to the crap you heard from Rhodes and Sherman.

TT needs to buy--BUY--two offensive tackles next year.

I have always given MM the benefit of the doubt so far. BUT if he doesn't at least immediately CAN the ST coach and anyone else that has anything to do with ST, then he should be the one to go.

This game was lost with Special Teams....plain and simple.

And I thought THIS year they were keeping people on the roster that could really contribute to STs. I really expected a top-5 ranked unit with all the BS we heard about it in the off season.

The final straw for me may be MM's comment after the game.

GB is an undisciplined team that repeatedly makes the same mistakes week after week. To me that falls on the coach. And while the Packers normally practice in pads each Thursday, this past Thursday they did not. So when asked if the team was underprepared or possibly looking past the Bucs, MM's comment to Larry McCarren was, "if anything I think I overworked the guys."

As Bill Michaels, or was it Bill Scott, said on the post game show, that has got to be one of the stupidest comments made by a coach under these circumstances!!!

quote:

Originally posted by who:
TT needs to buy--BUY--two offensive tackles next year.

Hopefully he doesn't have the chance to attempt to cover for five years of mediocrity.

quote:

Originally posted by justanotherpackerfan:
You know LB....I was thinking the the halftime score could have easily been 28-0.

How can you let a middle man go untouched to the punter?

Why on earth are you throwing long passes on the second series, when you already have a lead and can take advantage of using the run? By the way, this is not hindsight...when the Packers got the ball the second time, I specifically said..."OK, now establish the run"

How do you let a team go 90 yards for a field goal at the end of the half?

So what you said about keeping the games close is so true. I bet at 21-7 or 21-0 the game would have been over, with a much better outcome.

(Boy this season seems very Ray Rhodes like)

This is a great, great post ... any level-headed Packer fan has/is thinking the exact same way you have here.

quote:

Originally posted by who:
TT needs to buy--BUY--two offensive tackles next year.

The draft is light on OT. Last years draft would have been the optimum time to get a LT.

One thing for sure, no bandwagons for me anymore. The next coach is going to have to prove it first.

Two words for the TT/MM haters--personal accountability. Thompson and McCarthy are about 30% responsible for this 4-4 record. The players play, and they are not playing well. Jamie Dukes said it best on the NFL network, "The Packers are too talented to be be 4-4." That means the players are not playing up to their abilities and they are not executing. Rodgers is 10-14 as a starter and there is not one player on this team that should not be embarrassed about today's game.

A win over Dallas at Lambeau will point us in the right direction.

Both TT and MM should be shown the door, but due to the length of TT's contract, we may only get half of our wish granted.

TT hasn't done anything to suggest that he is a good GM. He chose a terrible HC. He failed to build an adequate o-line. He refuses to spend money in free agency, even though is best move has probably been signing Woodson. He's terrible. Instead, he declared that he will build this team through the draft. In the process, he stockpiled more draft picks than any other team over the past few years, yet this team still lacks talent. His draft picks have been primarily busts. The man is not a good evaluator of talent when it comes to players and coaches.

MM is an idiot. We've had reason to question his intelligence since he issued a mission statement that wasn't even written in proper English, and he has done little to prove otherwise. The man is incapabe of making an in-game - or even an in-season - adjustment. His teams never demonstrate any discipline. He is terrible at calling the plays.

We need to scrap the whole thing and start over. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. MM is going to get the axe, but TT may live to see another season.

quote:

Originally posted by lynndickey83:
A win over Dallas at Lambeau will point us in the right direction.

And I will be at this game cheering them on.

quote:

Originally posted by lynndickey83:
Two words for the TT/MM haters--personal accountability. Thompson and McCarthy are about 30% responsible for this 4-4 record. The players play, and they are not playing well. Jamie Dukes said it best on the NFL network, "The Packers are too talented to be be 4-4." That means the players are not playing up to their abilities and they are not executing. Rodgers is 10-14 as a starter and there is not one player on this team that should not be embarrassed about today's game.

A win over Dallas at Lambeau will point us in the right direction.

OK...I agree with the player accountability thing. But if you keep losing games like today and you look at who the Packers have actually beaten in the last two years...maybe, just maybe, we (and I know Jamie Dukes is some sort of expert) are giving this team credit for having more talent than it really does.

quote:

Originally posted by lynndickey83:
Two words for the TT/MM haters--personal accountability. Thompson and McCarthy are about 30% responsible for this 4-4 record. The players play, and they are not playing well. Jamie Dukes said it best on the NFL network, "The Packers are too talented to be be 4-4." That means the players are not playing up to their abilities and they are not executing.

It only means that players are not living up to their abilities if you believe JD's assessment that this team is talented. I don't. Our team lacks depth. That falls on TT. Our team lacks discipline. That falls on MM. Our O-line is easily the worst in the league. That falls on the both of them.

When it comes down to it, neither TT nor MM have done anything to suggest that they deserve to be in their respective positions.

quote:

Originally posted by lynndickey83:
Two words for the TT/MM haters--personal accountability. Thompson and McCarthy are about 30% responsible for this 4-4 record. The players play, and they are not playing well. Jamie Dukes said it best on the NFL network, "The Packers are too talented to be be 4-4." That means the players are not playing up to their abilities and they are not executing.

So what does it mean when veterans like Jenkins and especially Woodson call out the coaching staff for handcuffing the players too much and don't allow them to play to their strengths? Do the coaches "handcuff" them from playing up to their abilities?

And I realize this team has some studs, but I still feel we have problems with the oline, no pass rush and inconsistent LB corp plus poor special team play. I think people overestimate the talent of this team.

We may have talent.

But we play like idiot bozo amateur showboats.

Jolly's head butt last week. barnett missing the blitz tackle then his mushugana celebration the next play. harris getting mouthy then burned the next play. barbre, wonderlich, 'nuff said. Driver yucking it up as the gun sounds.

You don't see professionals like Woody doing that stupid crap. And I didn't see Woody after the game but I bet he wasn't yucking it up after that lame fiasco.

It still comes back to the O-line with me. Aikman, Smith and Irving would have a hard time doing much behind this line. I agree there is talent, but it needs to be distributed better.

Look, talent means you use it as a positive force and win games.

We may have talent but if you're too damn stupid to control yourself or self-absorbed to be a leader you're a negative not a positive.

And coaches are there to recognize the difference and coach out the negatives or sit their asses.

That's my point exactly-personal accountability--don't blame others/coaches as Woodson did--PLAY BETTER. At least the coaches suck it up and don't blame the players. They're all in it together, blaming others is what losers do.

quote:

Originally posted by missingU92:

quote:

Originally posted by lynndickey83:
Two words for the TT/MM haters--personal accountability. Thompson and McCarthy are about 30% responsible for this 4-4 record. The players play, and they are not playing well. Jamie Dukes said it best on the NFL network, "The Packers are too talented to be be 4-4." That means the players are not playing up to their abilities and they are not executing.

So what does it mean when veterans like Jenkins and especially Woodson call out the coaching staff for handcuffing the players too much and don't allow them to play to their strengths? Do the coaches "handcuff" them from playing up to their abilities?

And I realize this team has some studs, but I still feel we have problems with the oline, no pass rush and inconsistent LB corp plus poor special team play. I think people overestimate the talent of this team.

quote:

Originally posted by missingU92:
The final straw for me may be MM's comment after the game.

GB is an undisciplined team that repeatedly makes the same mistakes week after week. To me that falls on the coach. And while the Packers normally practice in pads each Thursday, this past Thursday they did not. So when asked if the team was underprepared or possibly looking past the Bucs, MM's comment to Larry McCarren was, "if anything I think I overworked the guys."

As Bill Michaels, or was it Bill Scott, said on the post game show, that has got to be one of the stupidest comments made by a coach under these circumstances!!!

Stop listening to that DOLT Bill Michaels, he LOVES to rile people up and play the blame game. The only reason McCarthy said that was to put the game on his shoulders and not the players. If that's the final straw for you, then you already made up your mind before the comment. That comment was blown WAY out of proportion by Bill Michaels, who, by the way, has an IQ somewhere in the room temperature range.

I think mm could have come up with something a bit more credible than that inane comment that we all knew was BS.

Don't insult us, mike. If he couldn't come up with something more credible after all that BS in that game, he's a MAJOR part of the problem. (Peter Principle comes to mind)

I think we'll beat Detroit.

quote:

Originally posted by lynndickey83:
That's my point exactly-personal accountability--don't blame others/coaches as Woodson did--PLAY BETTER. At least the coaches suck it up and don't blame the players. They're all in it together, blaming others is what losers do.

But to use Woodson's excuse, how do you play better when coaches don't allow you to play to your strengths? The coaches should maximize a player's skills. Don't expect Kampmann to become a great pass defender for example. Do you blame Kampmann or the coaches for something that he will need time to develop- if ever?

quote:

Originally posted by lynndickey83:
The only reason McCarthy said that was to put the game on his shoulders and not the players.

But you already said TT/MM get 30% of the blame.

I don't blame the line, so much, as the play calling.

The Buccs looked bigger than us on every play and their offense was not that complex.

I don't get how you lose to the Buccs.

quote:

I don't get how you lose to the Buccs.

You give up TD drives of 8 yards, 15 yards, a blocked punt TD, and a pick 6. There's 28 points right there.

quote:

Originally posted by missingU92:

quote:

Originally posted by lynndickey83:
That's my point exactly-personal accountability--don't blame others/coaches as Woodson did--PLAY BETTER. At least the coaches suck it up and don't blame the players. They're all in it together, blaming others is what losers do.

But to use Woodson's excuse, how do you play better when coaches don't allow you to play to your strengths? The coaches should maximize a player's skills. Don't expect Kampmann to become a great pass defender for example. Do you blame Kampmann or the coaches for something that he will need time to develop- if ever?[/QUOTE]

I agree that moving Kampmann to LB was a big mistake. That's on Capers/McCarthy. But saying the coaches don't allow you to make plays still sounds like a loser's lament. Coaches don't blame players and they certainly could, again, anytime someone blames someone else they are not taking personal accountability.

Ignoring the OL is now biting our team in the butt. In the next year or two ignoring the D-secondary will too. TT started out with some smart looking pics but having as many holes and as much money as this team currently has doesn't make sense. The Packers should be past rebuilding and should be a competitive team by now.

Well, Tom Pelissero (who is pretty level-headed IMO and evenhanded) of the GBPG said in his post-game chat that he wouldn't be surprised if there are some staff firings this week.

Link

quote:

I do not think his staff is safe this week. That's how pitiful it was. Far be it from me to call for anyone's firing, but when your unit is having the failures of those coached by Shawn Slocum and James Campen, you should not sleep well tonight.

quote:

Would it surprise me if Campen is fired this week? No.

quote:

Dungy "the Packers had the formula for losing to a winless team"..

Sad thing is, he's absolutely right

McCarthy would be a decent qb coach or maybe offensive coordinator that doesen't call the plays. Thompson would be a good director of college scouting. A year from now this is their likely duties elsewhere.