@Boris posted:Stokes needs to be Jaire II. King is very very average. I want better
I'd settle for Shields II.
Would have gladly taken an average game from King against the Bucs. Never know what you'll get from him when he is available, which is far too infrequent.
I don't think expecting or even wanting Stokes to be "Jaire II" is realistic or fair to Stokes. Jaire may be the best CB in the league. Even Shields II is a pretty high bar. I've read Stokes is a bit stiff in the hips and we saw that show up vs. NYJ. It's his first PS/TC and reviews are so far mixed, which is to be expected. But I agree, he can't be King II.
@DH13 posted:. I've read Stokes is a bit stiff in the hips and we saw that show up vs. NYJ.
His saving grace is that 4.2 speed. As he gets more acclimated, he can take risks slower corners like King can't because he can catch up in a hurry. Davante recently told a story about Sam Shields where Adams was convinced he had him beat in Training Camp practices and out of nowhere Shields exploded and caught up with him. Adams said Stokes has that same ability.
Right now he's getting schooled by the best QB/WR duo in all of football. It's a hell of a lesson he's learning but if you believe in the eventual "iron sharpens iron" mentality, this only helps Stokes in the long run
If he is mentally tough it makes him better. If not, it destroys his confidence.
If practice destroys your confidence, time to find a different gig.
@packerboi posted:His saving grace is that 4.2 speed. As he gets more acclimated, he can take risks slower corners like King can't because he can catch up in a hurry. Davante recently told a story about Sam Shields where Adams was convinced he had him beat in Training Camp practices and out of nowhere Shields exploded and caught up with him. Adams said Stokes has that same ability.
Right now he's getting schooled by the best QB/WR duo in all of football. It's a hell of a lesson he's learning but if you believe in the eventual "iron sharpens iron" mentality, this only helps Stokes in the long run
No amount of speed will make up for stiff hips. Shields was pretty loose. Stokes got beat on the route everyone saw vs. NYJ because he didn't transition well at the receiver's break. This is often an issue with stiffness. It's what all the coaches are talking about when they refer to a CB "flipping his hips". He also played way off the WR on that snap which also isn't one of his strong points.
But I'll say it again. It's his first TC/PS and seems to be in good hands as far as coaching and practice environment goes.
@BrainDed posted:If he is mentally tough it makes him better. If not, it destroys his confidence.
Ain’t got time for a corner who is not inherently confident. All corners get beat. Need one who can handle it.
@michiganjoe posted:Would have gladly taken an average game from King against the Bucs. Never know what you'll get from him when he is available, which is far too infrequent.
As I've posted before, the real problem in the Bucs game was that King was dinged up and probably shouldn't have been on the field. The underlying issue was that his backup was Josh Jackson and the coaching staff decided that a partially healthy King was a better option than Josh Jackson. In fact, they had signed Tramon that week and might have played him over Jackson had King been declared out.
They finally pulled the plug on Jackson this month, about 2 years too late.
@Pikes Peak posted:From Peter King this morning,
5. I think I could live another 65 years on this planet and gain all sorts of understanding about the meaning of life, but I will never understand the Green Bay Packers paying Kevin King $6 million to play football in 2021.
Not a Peter King fan normally, but since the Amen Corner in the local Wisconsin press would never utter such blasphemy about the Packer FRONT OFFICE, I got to give credit where credit is due.
I knew sure as shart that when he gave up that easy pitch and catch first down in the first half that New Orleans was just licking its chops waiting to set him up.
What an utterly disastrous off-season for Gutey on the defensive side of the ball.
@SteveLuke posted:Not a Peter King fan normally, but since the Amen Corner in the local Wisconsin press would never utter such blasphemy about the Packer FRONT OFFICE, I got to give credit where credit is due.
I knew sure as shart that when he gave up that easy pitch and catch first down in the first half that New Orleans was just licking its chops waiting to set him up.
What an utterly disastrous off-season for Gutey on the defensive side of the ball.
He was playing his typical 15 yards off the receiver.
KKing needs a seat on the bench. It looked like he said to himself, "I'll just drift backward toward the sideline, because I know he's going to break this off to the outside... Wait. He's just going down the field? Oh, fukk!" I think I'd rather take my chances with Stokes at this point. He's stealing money...
@Fandame posted:KKing needs a seat on the bench. It looked like he said to himself, "I'll just drift backward toward the sideline, because I know he's going to break this off to the outside... Wait. He's just going down the field? Oh, fukk!" I think I'd rather take my chances with Stokes at this point. He's stealing money...
I saw one play where King got spun around on a completion. Was a pretty damn good route and throw.
Which pass plays of JW’s 148 yards passing really bothered you or anyone about King’s play today?
I expect to see King and Stokes flipped by week 2.
More true today than it was on Sept. 7th.
King wasn't anywhere close on that long TD to #11 (Harris?). The receiver shifted to the inside and King doesn't go with him. He stays outside on absolutely no one and when the ball is snapped King just drifts back. Sloppy technique. Earlier in the game, you see King backpedal so fast when the ball is snapped against #11 that he gives a huge cushion so when 11 breaks to the outside, it's an easy pitch-and-catch for like 19 yards. That helps set up the long TD later. King is just guessing at this point.
On a more depressing note, ********* signed a new deal recently
The flailing arm paddle by a db in Barry's defense is the signal for safety help.
It was Harris and his coverage was brutal.
@Fandame posted:King is just guessing at this point.
Yep. You see him do that Richard Sherman signature speed turn based on where he thinks the route is going. Purely a guess. Problem is Sherman almost always ACTUALLY knows where the route is going, King is just lost and he gets crushed for it. Gute needs to scour the trade block for answers.
@Grave Digger posted:Yep. You see him do that Richard Sherman signature speed turn based on where he thinks the route is going. Purely a guess. Problem is Sherman almost always ACTUALLY knows where the route is going, King is just lost and he gets crushed for it. Gute needs to scour the trade block for answers.
I have a rusty gate I'll trade him. I think I can package King with my old washing machine for a new fridge!
@Grave Digger posted:Yep. You see him do that Richard Sherman signature speed turn based on where he thinks the route is going. Purely a guess. Problem is Sherman almost always ACTUALLY knows where the route is going, King is just lost and he gets crushed for it. Gute needs to scour the trade block for answers.
LOL, Gute had $6M to play with at CB this offseason and what did he do with it?
He re-signed Kevin King when the. rest of the NFL didn't want him. Gutey ain't moving on from his boy, he is following in Ted's footsteps and gonna give him every chance to prove what a wise selection that was (over the player whose name dare not be named).
Gute doubled down on King just like he doubled down on Lancaster. And Redmond.
And Gute signed 2-time loser Campbell to replace last year's answer at ILB Kirksey. After signing KIrksey to replace his previous pickup Goodson to replace his pickup Antonio Morrison.
Those not sufficiently appreciative of the Pack's FRONT OFFICE might be inclined to think that Gute's revolving door at ILB has been as poor a decision as investing so much time and $ in King or his decision to pay Lowry and continue to rely on Lancaster.
Perhaps the problem on the defensive side of the ball, over not just the past 4 seasons but the past 11 years, has not just been the disappointing production out of so many 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks or only the sharty defensive coaching, but. again just perhaps, it is because the FRONT OFFICE has no clue what it is doing on that side of the ball.
On a completely separate note, where have Gute (and Murph) been working for the last 11 years?
SteveLuke, I honestly think they kept him around because he is familiar with the system, if he stays healthy at times he is pretty good, and by some things I read he is one of the team leaders. Still doesn't justify it to me though I personally would have moved on from him.
To me its fascinating how some teams excel at finding offensive players and suck and finding defensive players and some do it the other way around. For instance the Bears have been looking for a long term answer at QB for 50 years. And the Packers with few exceptions have been floundering to find a consistent defense.
Right now I put the blame on defensive coaching. Capers, Pettine, and now Barry all have basically the same results. Soft defenses that get pushed around and have NO physical presence at all.
Think the organization at this point has to seriously consider giving Stokes a shot.
@The Heckler posted:SteveLuke, I honestly think they kept him around because he is familiar with the system
I don’t see how this could be when it’s supposedly a brand new system
sure looked like the same old shit to me - both sides of the ball.
what happened to scheming guys open on offense? that looked like mccarthy ball out there yesterday....
Maybe the Packers were doing a throwback game and last week's theme was the 50s.
@Fandame posted:King wasn't anywhere close on that long TD to #11 (Harris?). The receiver shifted to the inside and King doesn't go with him. He stays outside on absolutely no one and when the ball is snapped King just drifts back. Sloppy technique. Earlier in the game, you see King backpedal so fast when the ball is snapped against #11 that he gives a huge cushion so when 11 breaks to the outside, it's an easy pitch-and-catch for like 19 yards. That helps set up the long TD later. King is just guessing at this point.
I'm not sure that was on King. It looked like he was passing the receiver off to the middle-deep defenders in a zone concept and they never picked him up.
That said, with King in the lineup they should probably just Richard Sherman him and keep him in press whenever possible.
TD to Harris was just King getting beat badly, same as happened before the half against the Bucs. Read where Winston had a perfect QB rating when targeting King and it's probably time to see what the first-rounder can do.
CB Kevin King: The two completions he allowed on Sunday sum up the King experience. On the first, he somehow got turned around by a deep out while playing off coverage. On the second, he got beat deep and didn’t have the recovery speed. He can be disruptive at times pressing at the line of scrimmage but the Packers are asking for trouble every time he’s in off coverage. Thanks to never-ending injuries, King no longer has the fluidity or the deep speed to consistently prevent big plays. He also collided with Chandon Sullivan on one of the touchdown passes, providing Winston with a wide-open target in the end zone.
Heard that Eric Stokes graded out significantly higher then King. Stokes was graded I believe mid 70's. Granted it's one week, but if that trend continues I can't imagine the rookie 1st round pick not surpassing King sooner then later
Stokes graded out much higher, but in such a limited role that it's hard to tell what he can do. The one time he was targeted, it was a reception but he was also one step away from the receiver and made a very sure stick.
Trade King. I'm changing my tune on him. He has got to go.
Another thing that IMHO is telling about King is that he looks no stronger in his upper body than when he came out of college .... I take that as he doesn't really love the weight room. Look at a guy like Aaron Jones, who looks significantly stronger now than as a rookie.,... speaks to commitment to their profession.
It's possible his exit from Green Bay poisoned the well, but Casey Hayward going to Vegas instead of the Packers (and getting half the money GB gave Kevin King) is mind-boggling.
— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) September 21, 2021
If you're going to overpay for a vet, try a good one.
First I heard of this.
@Henry posted:It's possible his exit from Green Bay poisoned the well, but Casey Hayward going to Vegas instead of the Packers (and getting half the money GB gave Kevin King) is mind-boggling.
— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) September 21, 2021
If you're going to overpay for a vet, try a good one.First I heard of this.
classic pile on like that guy does, thanks for the 'fresh' news. that guy has nothing to offer, no insight, but if you want to listen to ads, please subscribe; so thanks for the slam on the FO there pete...anything else?
Coming off his most impressive performance, according to some fans, in years, Kevin King will miss tomorrow's contest in Chicago.
What a shocker, at least to the FRONT OFFICE, to see King miss a football game.
King will have now missed 25 of the 69 regular season games the Packers have played in since making him the team's top pick in 2017. That equates to 36% of all games, and does not take into account the contests King left early or played sparingly due to injury or in which he was hampered by injury.
Every team makes mistakes in the draft, but doubling down on/re-signing mediocrity (Lowry) or injured mediocrity (King) is a big reason for the Pack's continued mediocrity (or worse) on D.
At least the FRONT OFFICE only signed King for 1 year unlike the huge deal they gave the Packer poster-child for rewarding injured/mediocrity Nick Perry.
To take but one example of potential alternatives, Casey Hayward at $2M was available last offseason for a 1-year deal but the FRONT OFFICE had to outbid King's imaginary suitors (he received no offers from other teams at least none that were reported) BY throwing $6M at him. (And let's be honest, signing Hayward instead of King would also have led to unpleasant, questions/ discussions about how the FRONT OFFICE preferred to go with Damarious Randall and Quinten Rollins instead of re-signing Casey to a $5M deal in 2016 and who would want to be reminded of such FRONT OFFICE ineptitude when there are all those NFC North titles for the FRONT OFFICE to crow about).
PFF grades so far in 2021, Hayward 86.3. King 60.2.
@pkr_north posted:classic pile on like that guy does, thanks for the 'fresh' news. that guy has nothing to offer, no insight, but if you want to listen to ads, please subscribe; so thanks for the slam on the FO there pete...anything else?
People keep screaming about Kevin King, Dean Lowry, TJ Watt, whatever as if there are people on the other side of those opinions. There are zero people who believe King was a good re-signing, he should have been drafted over Watt or that Dean Lowry got a good contract…yet those things are talked about like they’re hot takes or controversial issues.