@R MaN posted:Wayne Simmons. Wonder what he would do in this defense.
I think Brent Jones still has nightmares about Simmons ragdolling him all over the field.
@PackerHawk posted:When Brad Jones is one of a handful of guys that are an example of non-failures you know that's a shithole of a position.
I remember Brad Jones was really good at modeling throwback uniforms when the Packers would come out with new ones. That was about it. Very handsome.
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Were those the pants that sweat stained really easily?
That’s a great question. One that I will address in next week’s episode.
@DH13 posted:The only real flaw I've seen with them over this last stretch is giving up the big play. Usually on the long ball.
Yep. But really, I'll take the occasional blown play like that over a 13 play drive that takes up half a quarter. Rodgers almost always seems to answer those big plays with one of his own or a long drive to follow it.
I'm not exactly sold on Barry being an improvement. I still think the biggest difference is players. King goes down again but now they're not trotting Josh Jackson and K'Dar Holman out there, but Douglas and Stokes. Campbell over Kirksey. A guy with real size like Slaton to eat some snaps. They've gone out and gotten guys who aren't complete shit to cover their holes when they open.
I've been on that fence too but by the eye test, it looks like the unit as a whole is playing better. I've also seen snippets about the scheme or play call differences that point to Barry.
Yeah, but then I think back to early on (yes, I'm probably a little too fixated on the Saints game too) where LaFleur reportedly to him to be more aggressive, play more press man, ie: ABM style, and that's when the defense started to improve. I still think the biggest defensive issues over the last decade have been due to the lack of talent rather than the coordinator, but now they're not just sitting on their flailing draft picks to fill holes any more.
I really don't care who fixed what. All I know is that this year I have not seen the DBs looking at each other after a TD pass going, "What the hell were you doing?" "I don't know, what the hell were you doing?"
Probably a combo platter, coaching, players, experience all factoring in.
@Herschel posted:They've gone out and gotten guys who aren't complete shit to cover their holes when they open.
Kind of like Kotex.
There are at least 3 differences I think Barry has made:
1. The defense, as a whole, is much more aware; recognizing plays, formations, tendencies, and reacting to them. I'm convinced this comes from film and other studies, so something happened that causes these guys to learn and retain much better than previous years.
2. Tackling. Still can be better, but it's a noteworthy improvement. And since they have to be in the right position to make a tackle, I think this is another benefit of being aware on the field.
3. Enthusiasm. I think Barry was supposed to be known for being rah-rah kind of guy, but when is the last time we've seen a Packers defense have this much fun during the year? The energy it creates during games has been a big benefit.
Agree on all 3 points .... in addition, and this may be a by-product of the 3 mentioned .... individual players are winning their one-on-ones more often (Gary, Lowry, Smith) and we have a better ILBer.
@Herschel posted:I'm not exactly sold on Barry being an improvement. I still think the biggest difference is players. King goes down again but now they're not trotting Josh Jackson and K'Dar Holman out there, but Douglas and Stokes. Campbell over Kirksey. A guy with real size like Slaton to eat some snaps. They've gone out and gotten guys who aren't complete shit to cover their holes when they open.
I don't know if it's specifically Matt Foley but there is definitely something on the coaching/scheme level that's making a difference. For all I know Matt Foley just does what Mayo tells him. I don't think he's some super genius but what they are doing is getting the most out of the players be it through scheme or coaching.
The biggest reason I'm convinced on the improvement being more scheme/coaching is the fact Campbell and Douglas were not FA targets on anybody's radar. They couldn't even be called mid tier. Add in the fact the existing turd cavalcade has started to produce. Is this a Micah Hyde situation? Yeah, partly.
Gunt gets the nod for bringing these guys in but it's pretty clear even he wasn't sold on Campbell being some kind of long term solution.
For all we know it could be a Bad News Bears type of situation. Either way, it's fun as hell to watch.
@Timmy! posted:There are at least 3 differences I think Barry has made:
1. The defense, as a whole, is much more aware; recognizing plays, formations, tendencies, and reacting to them. I'm convinced this comes from film and other studies, so something happened that causes these guys to learn and retain much better than previous years.2. Tackling. Still can be better, but it's a noteworthy improvement. And since they have to be in the right position to make a tackle, I think this is another benefit of being aware on the field.
3. Enthusiasm. I think Barry was supposed to be known for being rah-rah kind of guy, but when is the last time we've seen a Packers defense have this much fun during the year? The energy it creates during games has been a big benefit.
I think the first two points (and maybe even the third) are byproducts of recognizing what your personnel are capable of and tailoring the defense to optimize that. When you are confident in your assignments, you play faster and less tentatively.
Dom's defenses worked great when players like Charles Woodson were out there because he had the ability to recognize schemes beyond what most players good. That also allowed Dom to devise complicated schemes to confuse the opponent. THe problem is that if you expect all your players to execute complicating schemes at the level Woodson (or Nick Collins) could, you are asking for problems.
Coaches make a difference at any level. I'm going with coaches putting guys into the correct scheme, developing them to the max of their ability, and showing them how to approach the mental (film) side of the game. Coaching.
Defense is trending in the wrong direction and Joe needs to get it fixed, and quickly.
GB D looking more and more like the D we've gotten used to seeing almost every post season since SB45.
@michiganjoe posted:Defense is trending in the wrong direction and Joe needs to get it fixed, and quickly.
Yeah, maybe we should get our All Pro Corner and Linebacker back, and quickly!
Browns averaged 8.8 yards per rushing attempt and a team is running the ball well at half that. Good column by Silverstein pointing out that another early and cruel playoff exit is likely on the horizon unless Joe gets it fixed.
@michiganjoe posted:Browns averaged 8.8 yards per rushing attempt and a team is running the ball well at half that. Good column by Silverstein pointing out that another early and cruel playoff exit is likely on the horizon unless Joe gets it fixed.
I think we all wanted to think Lancaster and Lowry had improved. Maybe they have, but it’s not enough to say that those guys are anything more than average.
The guy I had higher hopes for was Keke, but if the Pack thought so little of him to make him inactive this week, that doesn’t bode well for him being able to help much.
The D-Line is a 1 man show. So far it’s been enough, but as they face a playoff gauntlet, Clark will need others around him to step up.
D is suffering from lack of depth. Players getting the majority of snaps are getting them because that’s the only option. They look tired & worn down.
What can’t happen is the offense stringing together 3 & outs like they did after a FG to open the 2nd half yesterday. Points are great. But don’t keep running a tired D out there after 3 or 4 consecutive 3 & outs that each peel 1:10 off the clock. Fix that.
Agree, even though they only got 3 pts on opening second half drive, they kept our defense off the field for 7 minutes .....gotta have more than that in addition to our defense limiting explosive plays like they were earlier in the season.
Every team to win the Super Bowl since 2012 has featured a top 10 scoring defense.
Green Bay has finished OUTSIDE THE TOP 10 every year since 2010 - when it finished #1 (and last appeared in a Super Bowl).
There was so much hope for the D a few weeks ago and the scoring D was #6 overall after shutting out Seattle.
However, over the past 5 weeks GB's D has given up 34, 28, 23, 30, and 22 points (an average of 27.4) and only one of those teams (the Rams) have a top 10 scoring offense.
The soft, passive approach to D we saw under Capers and Pettine has returned with a vengeance.
Currently, Indy, Arizona, NE,[b] Buffalo, KC, Dallas, and Tampa Bay [/b] have top 10 scoring defenses in 2021.
The Packers are now tied for 12th.
The absences of Jaire and Z do not adequately explain the recent downward spiral as Z has not been available since game 1 and Jaire went down in game 4. But something has changed and changed for the worse.
If the D does not start turning it around beginning this Sunday, look for the SB winner to come from one of Buff-KC-TB-Dallas ... and for the Packers to use yet another top pick on the D in the 2022 draft.
The defense plays better when the offense is clicking and dictating.
@H5 posted:The defense plays better when the offense is clicking and dictating.
The offense recently put up 31 on the road in both Minnesota and Baltimore and 38 at home against the Bears. The D did not play well in any of those 3 contests.
The D has not really played well as a unit (as opposed to individuals like Rasul) since the Seattle shutout.
It seems to have reverted to the passive, poor tackling, easily moved on unit that we've come to expect from Packer defenses.
Earlier this year the Pack's D was playing well even when the O struggled (Seattle, Arizona, KC).
Moreover, there will undoubtedly be a game in which a playoff opponent will, at least to some degree, thwart the Pack's offense (like the Bears did in the 2010 NFC Championship game).
To succeed in the playoffs, the GB D needs to recapture that previously displayed defensive prowess/aggressiveness ... regardless of how the O plays.
If we see the type of D that has been on display over the last 4-5 games in the playoffs, the Packers will be watching another NFC team compete for a Lombardi yet again.
Probably not going to happen. Sorry to say, but home field won't be enough.
after every successful D outing the tape gets scoured. gotta keep giving the opposition new and different things to think about. is that happening?
During the stretch that the defense payed well, both Lowry and Clark appeared to consistently be winning at the LOS. Recently Clark is the only interior defender that is doing so. A by-product appears to be that o-lineman are able to get to the second second level to block Campbell & Barnes. Savage is not a player who seems to like contact and is a liability when put in positions where he is the unblocked defender and the difference between a 5 yard gain and an explosive play. Heck, in the Cleveland game we played "Bear Front" on First Down, which is why the Browns threw so much on that down, especially in First Half (8 of 12 times on First Down). They passed less on First down in second half (7 out of 16 times) because they realized they could run on our alignment that typically says you can't. Not winning match-ups up front and OLBers not setting the edge appear to be glaring weaknesses lately. What is worrisome is that our recent opponents had starters out on the offensive line ....what happens if we play TB or Dallas and their o-line is intact?
They were winning their one on ones when they were doing well and now they're not. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Can't tell you why that is other than what others have said regarding fatigue but our DL has been relatively healthy, no? We've had depth/health issues at OLB but that's about it.
@fightphoe93 posted:I think we all wanted to think Lancaster and Lowry had improved. Maybe they have, but it’s not enough to say that those guys are anything more than average.
The guy I had higher hopes for was Keke, but if the Pack thought so little of him to make him inactive this week, that doesn’t bode well for him being able to help much.
The D-Line is a 1 man show. So far it’s been enough, but as they face a playoff gauntlet, Clark will need others around him to step up.
They over achieved early. I was hoping they'd actually make it through the season and playoffs this year despite my continual bitching about drafting a 2nd round QB in the first round instead of Dline/ILB help.
Campbell is still playing well but he's getting washed out by a flood of olinemen.
Misplaced hope unless Matt Foley does his motivational thing. Sure is starting to seem like Mayo is the one dictating the calls. He planted a boot up Matt Foley's ass after the Saints debacle and it sounds like he's winding up again.
They did something right to get this defense playing lights out so they got it in them.
Hopefully they can find that early season magic again. A lot has to do with missed tackles sure seems like they have been whiffing a lot lately.
At work and not able to imbed the video but if want a reminder if the old times you tube why packers never became a dynasty with Aaron Rodgers. Warning is is down right sicking and painful to watch.