Play if the game may have been the Eagles third play from scrimmage. A missed tackle by #7 and it was off to the races the rest of the game. If he makes the tackle, Philly punts..
āThatās a great question,ā LaFleur says when asked about horrendous run defense. They charted 15 misses.
ā Bill Huber (@BillHuberNFL) November 28, 2022
Translation: I know I made a horrible mistake with the hire.
LaFleur looks scared on the sidelines. I'm sure he has no balls to fire anyone.
I donāt give a fuck whoās hurting on that defense. You simply do not surrender 363 yards in rushing defense. You dont in the NFL.
Barry just canāt adjust. He has no feel for the game. And guys like Alexander, Clark, etc look like dog shit playing for him. Those are Pro Bowl players.
Its inexcusable.
@packerboi posted:I donāt give a fuck whoās hurting on that defense. You simply do not surrender 363 yards in rushing defense. You dont in the NFL.
Barry just canāt adjust. He has no feel for the game. And guys like Alexander, Clark, etc look like dog shit playing for him. Those are Pro Bowl players.
Its inexcusable.
Yep. Imagine being put into schemes where you know your athletic talent is being pissed away. Savage has been the scapegoat for weeks now. He gets hurt early on and the defense just carries on with their crummy play. It hasn't been one player, it's been all players who continually look lost and have to chase people down like it's a clown show. When you have 11 guys on defense taking turns being completely out of position and unable to make plays, it points to scheme and game plan. Barry has to be gone. I'll hold my tongue on MLF but he doesn't seem to have any answers at all. The organization has hit the wall and needs a fresh start sooner rather than later.
@packerboi posted:Listening to Barry, you can definitely pick up on his energy. He talks ALOT and speaks with a lot of enthusiasm. Now let's see if it translates to Sundays.
He said "you better believe" this defense is going to know how to tackle, know how to wrap up, and know their assignments. Again, it sounds good. Let's see if this defense buys into what he says.
"He said "you better believe" this defense is going to know how to tackle, know how to wrap up, and know their assignments."š š¤£
Each game gets progressively worse, culminating tonight in giving up 40 points, 360+ yards rushing, 500 yards of total offense, 29 1st downs, 4/5 red zone scores... an epic fail of historical proportions.
If I'm Barry, how can I come to work and look the other coaches (and players) in the eye? I'd be so ashamed, I would rather resign than face the embarrassment.
@Timmy! posted:Each game gets progressively worse, culminating tonight in giving up 40 points, 360+ yards rushing, 500 yards of total offense, 29 1st downs, 4/5 red zone scores... an epic fail of historical proportions.
If I'm Barry, how can I come to work and look the other coaches (and players) in the eye? I'd be so ashamed, I would rather resign than face the embarrassment.
On a national stage no less. If the Packers by chance squeaked into the playoffs, the same performance would be expected. Kind of like a broken record with this team.
The only thing saving this team from being the worst run defense in the NFL is the horribly mismanaged Houston Texans.
Obviously Joe Barry is a disaster, but I think itās sort of an organizational failure beyond Barry that has led to this.
The Pack has focused on getting athletic fast guys in drafting. The problem is, athletic fast guys who arenāt instinctive and arenāt strong and tough leaves you extremely vulnerable against more physical teams.
A guy like Devonte Wyatt is an athletic marvel, runs a 4.7 40 at 300 lbs. Thatās nice, but he just looks overwhelmed by the raw size and strength of NFL Offensive linemen and has failed to help this year when they really needed someone to take the pressure off the DL starters.
Quay Walkerās speed is impressive. His tackling skills and instincts are not good though, and he clearly can be exploited at this point in his career.
Somehow someway, the Pack needs to find some guys who can actually make a tackle when theyāre in position. Just way too many soft guys in that back 7. Add to that a D-Line that just isnāt tough at the point of attack and you end up with the disaster that is our current defense.
While I think you are right they cannot keep spending capital and not getting anything out of it. They need to get someone in charge who can get the current D roster into roles that they can produce in.
By the way is Quay Georgian for ācanāt tackleā?
@fightphoe93 posted:The only thing saving this team from being the worst run defense in the NFL is the horribly mismanaged Houston Texans.
Obviously Joe Barry is a disaster, but I think itās sort of an organizational failure beyond Barry that has led to this.
The Pack has focused on getting athletic fast guys in drafting. The problem is, athletic fast guys who arenāt instinctive and arenāt strong and tough leaves you extremely vulnerable against more physical teams.
A guy like Devonte Wyatt is an athletic marvel, runs a 4.7 40 at 300 lbs. Thatās nice, but he just looks overwhelmed by the raw size and strength of NFL Offensive linemen and has failed to help this year when they really needed someone to take the pressure off the DL starters.
Quay Walkerās speed is impressive. His tackling skills and instincts are not good though, and he clearly can be exploited at this point in his career.
Somehow someway, the Pack needs to find some guys who can actually make a tackle when theyāre in position. Just way too many soft guys in that back 7. Add to that a D-Line that just isnāt tough at the point of attack and you end up with the disaster that is our current defense.
As you suggest (at this point in his career), Walker is probably going to get a lot better. A lot of guys that play in the middle of the defense in pass coverage (LB and S) that end up being very good players take poor angles on tackling early in their career as they adjust to the fact that almost every skill position player in the NFL was a former 5-star recruit. Nick Collins comes to mind as a previous example of someone who had the same issue.
At least Walker is often in the right spot to make a play and has flashed several times this year. His sideline to sideline speed is elite. Imagine having him on the field instead of AJ Hawk or Blake Martinez in some of those past playoff losses. I think opposing OCs have tape on him now and are using his aggressiveness and speed against him in terms of getting him out of position. If we had an above average NFL defensive coaching staff, he'd really improve on this quickly.
@Chongo posted:Two years ago I was all-in on the "risk" of JL being our DC. Two years later, Barry has been a failed attempt, so now we don't have the runway for our next DC not to work. Hiring a proven DC reduces the risk. For all I know JL may be the next Buddy Ryan of NFL DC...but the Packers can't take the risk IMO.
Yep, they need a Bisaccia type hire as the next DC. No former buddy hires. No going cheap and trying to find a bargain.
Dump Barry and let Jerry Gray finish.
Jerry Gray? DBs are the most underachieving unit on the team.
I concur that Jerry Gray would be better from here on out.
@YATittle posted:I concur that Jerry Gray would be better from here on out.
And you know this how?
Many national outlets like ESPN and USA Today are ripping the defense and Barry. Dismal is the most common description. On 247 sports they are claiming that the Packers are taking another try at Leonhard.
@MichiganPacker posted:As you suggest (at this point in his career), Walker is probably going to get a lot better. A lot of guys that play in the middle of the defense in pass coverage (LB and S) that end up being very good players take poor angles on tackling early in their career as they adjust to the fact that almost every skill position player in the NFL was a former 5-star recruit. Nick Collins comes to mind as a previous example of someone who had the same issue.
At least Walker is often in the right spot to make a play and has flashed several times this year. His sideline to sideline speed is elite. Imagine having him on the field instead of AJ Hawk or Blake Martinez in some of those past playoff losses. I think opposing OCs have tape on him now and are using his aggressiveness and speed against him in terms of getting him out of position. If we had an above average NFL defensive coaching staff, he'd really improve on this quickly.
It took Ray Nitschke a few years.
So many people warned them about hiring Barry, people in the know, and yet MLF went ahead and hired him anyway.
This is all on MLF.
Finish with Gray, hire new next year unless Gray is spectacular. The DBs may be playing badly now, but how much of that is due to the scheme that Barry has them in? They used to play more aggressively but now they are in the zone of nowhere.
This is the defense LaFleur wanted. Play light in the box and play (zone) coverage to avoid giving up the big passing play. Although he didn't ask for missed tackles, when opposing OL are getting to the second level on your linebackers, it doesn't matter - running yards will be gained in big chunks. That is a mismatch and scheme flaw.
Even when we played 3 interior d-lineman last night, we couldn't stop the run.
4-7 record going into the game. Too many guys making business decisions on defense.
@fightphoe93 posted:The only thing saving this team from being the worst run defense in the NFL is the horribly mismanaged Houston Texans.
Obviously Joe Barry is a disaster, but I think itās sort of an organizational failure beyond Barry that has led to this.
The Pack has focused on getting athletic fast guys in drafting. The problem is, athletic fast guys who arenāt instinctive and arenāt strong and tough leaves you extremely vulnerable against more physical teams.
A guy like Devonte Wyatt is an athletic marvel, runs a 4.7 40 at 300 lbs. Thatās nice, but he just looks overwhelmed by the raw size and strength of NFL Offensive linemen and has failed to help this year when they really needed someone to take the pressure off the DL starters.
Quay Walkerās speed is impressive. His tackling skills and instincts are not good though, and he clearly can be exploited at this point in his career.
Somehow someway, the Pack needs to find some guys who can actually make a tackle when theyāre in position. Just way too many soft guys in that back 7. Add to that a D-Line that just isnāt tough at the point of attack and you end up with the disaster that is our current defense.
Give Wyatt a year in the strength and conditioning program.
Quay, is a rookie like Wyatt. How good were you on day 1 of your job/career as opposed to several years under your belt?
I would gladly take Olave or Wilson instead of Walker and Wyatt. Imagine one of those guys with Watson and Doubs. Thatās a really good WR trio.
I get not wanting to cut bait with Barry mid year, can't see a replacement put in any position to succeed.
I anticipate a full housecleaning on defense after 17
@YooperPackfan posted:And you know this how?
I must be thinking of someone/something else, but I thought Gray had served as an interim DC in some kind of 'emergency' situation . A couple of searches don't mention anything close to that, so I'll assume that's not true.
However, they do show that he has 25 years coaching experience, 20+ years exclusively as a DB coach. And he had a bad-ass defense as a DC in Buffalo.
FWIW, Gregg Williams was the HC that hired him for that position. Regardless of personal opinions, he sure as hell knew how to build tough, hard-nosed defenses. I'd hope Gray learned a lot of that.
Jerry Gray
@50k Club posted:This is the defense LaFleur wanted. Play light in the box and play (zone) coverage to avoid giving up the big passing play. Although he didn't ask for missed tackles, when opposing OL are getting to the second level on your linebackers, it doesn't matter - running yards will be gained in big chunks. That is a mismatch and scheme flaw.
I agree it makes no sense with what MLF says in other contexts. Isn't he the "all gas, no brake" guy on offense? Be aggressive and dictate how the game is played.
I guess he wants the opposite for defense? All brake, all the time? So, let's assemble a defense filled with guys with elite athleticism using multiple first-round picks and then run a scheme that basically tells them to keep everything in front of them and make them play passively so they don't screw up and give up big plays.
Gray served as DC in the AZ game when Barry had Covid.
@Fandame posted:Finish with Gray, hire new next year unless Gray is spectacular. The DBs may be playing badly now, but how much of that is due to the scheme that Barry has them in? They used to play more aggressively but now they are in the zone of nowhere.
Yes. The current scheme is predicated on assuming they are playing a guy like Favre every game. You are scared of the opposing QBs ability to make big plays and beat you with 70 yard throws but assume he'll screw up enough to keep them from executing long drives.
Maybe he'll can Barry after the Chi game to give the new DC the bye week.
Hoping. 
Unless there is someone on staff that MiLF wants to promote, the change will come after the season.
363 & 500 is embarrassing.
Worth remembering that the coaching staff had ten days to prepare for the game. Obvious from MLF's presser that any changes will come at the end of the season.
Who is the "leader" for the defense, who holds their teammates accountable for their play and to each other and provides a spark? Is it Campbell? Is it Gary? They're both injured, obviously, so that doesn't help matters. There doesn't seem to be a leader in the locker room or on the field that I can tell... While I won't excuse Barry, coaches can only do so much.
If I was locked in a room with Joe Barry and Graham Mertzā¦Iād still shoot Fedya.
@D J posted:As was over 400 yards to one of the worst offenses in the Titans game.
The Titans game was obviously disappointing, but at least in that game their approach made some sense. Derrick Henry might be the best RB in football. He is good enough to beat you almost by himself. So, Barry schemed to stop that from happening and they did a great job on him (28 carries for 87 yards).
The problem Barry had in that game was third down defense. He'd get the Titans in 3rd and long or 3rd and medium and then drop into a soft zone and Tannehill was good enough to make the easy reads and pick it apart.
Tennessee converted 3rd and long twice on their first TD drives with passes to wide open receivers against soft coverage.
1st TD Drive: 3rd and 7 (T. Burks beats Nixon with a bad read from Savage in help defense for 43 yards)
2nd TD Drive: 3rd and 7 (9 yard pass), 3rd and 4 (6 yard pass)
The Eagles game was much worse because Hurts is an A level running QB, but a B- at best passer. He did make some throws to beat them, but make him keep doing that. If he throws for 5 TDs that sucks, but at least it's making them win by doing something other than their strength (especially with their TE out and no real threat from that position in the passing game). Don't let the Eagles beat you by continuing to run the ball down your throat.
@Blair Kiel posted:If I was locked in a room with Joe Barry and Graham Mertzā¦Iād still shoot Fedya.
Obviously I don't condone violence, but .
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:I get not wanting to cut bait with Barry mid year, can't see a replacement put in any position to succeed.
I anticipate a full housecleaning on defense after 17
What does Ramiz Ahmed have to do with this?
On the Sunday Night pregame show Rodney Harrison summed it up quite well like he usually does. He was asked if it was the players or the coach.
He didn't hesitate a second. "It's him!"