"last season, 27% if the passes he threw registered as uncatchable". Yikes.
I've never seen that stat used before and I'd like to see where other college QBs grade out. I think there could be a ton of variables that go into that stat.
@PackerRick posted:Just like Rodgers, the Packers completely retooled Love's throwing motion. So when it's said a QB's accuracy can only slightly be improved I don't believe that to be true in a case where major changes have been made.
It's not just his throwing motion that they worked on. They've drastically improved his footwork. That's where accuracy starts at.
@PackerRick posted:When you think about it Lafleur really stepped into a bad situation as a young, first time HC and a veteran like Rodgers who continually wanted more control on and off the field.
If only he could have been like all those other guys and stepped in to a garbage team with no established QB.
@PackerRick posted:Just like Rodgers, the Packers completely retooled Love's throwing motion. So when it's said a QB's accuracy can only slightly be improved I don't believe that to be true in a case where major changes have been made. Love has all the physical skills to be a success but more importantly his head is on straight and he'll be more coachable than Rodgers became.
It is very rare for a college QB to become much more accurate when in the NFL. Josh Allen is about the only notable example, and it took him a couple years to get good.
Rodgers changing his mechanics didn't make him more accurate, as he was already extremely accurate in college.
All that said, Love wasn't all that bad in college. 62% and 64% isn't horrible, even if it's also not elite. Certainly a lot better than Josh Allen throwing 56% at Wyoming. And as good as Allen is now, he can still make some boneheaded plays.
@Herschel posted:If only he could have been like all those other guys and stepped in to a garbage team with no established QB.
Very true, he might have been better off. It's almost as if his HCing career is just starting now where he can actually have complete control.
Here's Jordan Love working with his offseason QB guru - Steve Calhoun
One of the things MLF asked them to work on is getting Love to fully plant his left foot when he throws. Love had a tendency to throw off the ball of his left foot and they've been working with him on fixing that. You can see it here, most of the time he's planting all of the left, but there's still a little heel lift on occasion. Apparently, this impacts accuracy
Lots of NFL QB hire QB coaches in the off-season to work with them. There's a bunch in So Cal, Calhoun is one of them. He's very good. Steve Clarkson is another one, JP Losman used to do it, but I think he hung it up. Carson Palmer's little brother Jordan does it. Another guy making noise is Danny Hernandez.
The key with QB coaches is...identifying the things you can fix without adversely affecting the total package. And any changes you make have to become reflex and translate into success in games.
There is probably no better "winner of skills," guy than #12...he can drop a ball in a garbage can from 60 yards out like Annie Oakley could shoot a nickel from 100 yards away. But as we saw last year for whatever reason, mechanics and fundamentals didn't mean shit in games if the brain isn't working.
It's great 10 is honing his craft but his best whetstone is going to be live action. The biggest indicator of his growth/success as an NFL QB will be how many of the little things he does right...but many will focus on how many "wow" plays he makes. That's the wrong metric to focus on this early in his career.
If you go back to AR's first 5 or so years you see textbook perfect form. His feet both on and off schedule were Fred Astaire. I don't think I've ever watched any of his Cal tape so I don't know if that's something he's always had or if he developed that in his 3 year incubation on the bench in GB.
@DH13 posted:If you go back to AR's first 5 or so years you see textbook perfect form. His feet both on and off schedule were Fred Astaire. I don't think I've ever watched any of his Cal tape so I don't know if that's something he's always had or if he developed that in his 3 year incubation on the bench in GB.
I don’t know about textbook form. He carried the ball like a shot putter. That’s the way he was taught to hold it in college to speed up his release. McCarthy was wise enough to allow him to naturally adjust to a more natural way to hold the ball.
By the way, as good as Rodgers’ release is Love’s may be better. When he is decisive that ball comes out in a flash.
Edit: I just realized you were talking about his first 5 years as a starter. Absolutely right!
Mr. Calhoun seems like a nice enough person, but the about page on his website seems to have a rather thin pro client list. He's referred to as a Guru in a 2013 Bleacher Report article. I don't want to insult a man's hustle, but I also don't think it's a coincidence Love's greatest progress coincided with Tom Clements hiring (sincere kudos to 12 for that).
@Satori posted:Here's Jordan Love working with his offseason QB guru - Steve Calhoun
One of the things MLF asked them to work on is getting Love to fully plant his left foot when he throws. Love had a tendency to throw off the ball of his left foot and they've been working with him on fixing that. You can see it here, most of the time he's planting all of the left, but there's still a little heel lift on occasion. Apparently, this impacts accuracy
To me Love’s only true weakness is his accuracy. Not sure that can truly be fixed. Yes, I understand that his decision making has not always been the best, but that can be improved with coaching.
@Chongo posted:Lots of NFL QB hire QB coaches in the off-season to work with them. There's a bunch in So Cal, Calhoun is one of them. He's very good. Steve Clarkson is another one, JP Losman used to do it, but I think he hung it up. Carson Palmer's little brother Jordan does it. Another guy making noise is Danny Hernandez.
The key with QB coaches is...identifying the things you can fix without adversely affecting the total package. And any changes you make have to become reflex and translate into success in games.
There is probably no better "winner of skills," guy than #12...he can drop a ball in a garbage can from 60 yards out like Annie Oakley could shoot a nickel from 100 yards away. But as we saw last year for whatever reason, mechanics and fundamentals didn't mean shit in games if the brain isn't working.
It's great 10 is honing his craft but his best whetstone is going to be live action. The biggest indicator of his growth/success as an NFL QB will be how many of the little things he does right...but many will focus on how many "wow" plays he makes. That's the wrong metric to focus on this early in his career.
When 12 was playing with correct mechanics he was the most freakishly accurate QB I have ever seen. He and Drew Brees, anyway.
@Goalline posted:By the way, as good as Rodgers’ release is Love’s may be better. When he is decisive that ball comes out in a flash.
Only QB whose release rivaled Rodgers is Dan Marino. Love ain’t there yet. If he makes his way into that conversation then he’s an all-timer.
@Goalline posted:When 12 was playing with correct mechanics he was the most freakishly accurate QB I have ever seen. He and Drew Brees, anyway.
Accuracy fades with age in everyone. Bert's mechanics were very poor, but early in his career it didn't matter...because he was one of those guys that was naturally accurate...at least when he needed to be. Like Mahomes...no coincidence Bert and Mahomes both flourished under Andy Reid. As Favre got older, his accuracy got worse.
10's best chance for success is to let the offense run as it's supposed to. If he does that, he shouldn't have to make too many spectacular plays. See Garappolo, see Purdy...but what he brings those two don't is a level of mobility...not saying that should be a big weapon in his tool kit, but if he uses it like young 12 did...to get out of bad situations, like Mahomes, it will be something we haven't had in 10 years from a QB.
Also, everything isn't going to be his fault...the offense has been used to playing with 12 for their entire pro careers...they are going to instinctively do things based on what they are used to. There will be lumps...some will blame it all on 10...sometimes they will be right, but sometimes they will be rong. It's going to be a process.
I recall reading from many qb 'gurus' that accuracy is proportional to foot placement and planting your foot and balance/stability greatly increases accuracy, so his practicing proper footwork - should- and I say -will- improve accuracy. now, what happens when he gets blitzed to no ever loving end...can he maintain cool and keep his footwork, or will he get happy feet which= int's. I think he's going to surprise us...4th year in the system, he's got that part down, mentally he should be very comfortable.
As long as the receivers read the hand signals
@titmfatied posted:Mr. Calhoun seems like a nice enough person, but the about page on his website seems to have a rather thin pro client list. He's referred to as a Guru in a 2013 Bleacher Report article. I don't want to insult a man's hustle, but I also don't think it's a coincidence Love's greatest progress coincided with Tom Clements hiring (sincere kudos to 12 for that).
Once again, you're conclusions are off base. Love's greatest leap coincided with his 3rd year as a pro, his first was stunted by all the pandemic-ness.
Steve Calhoun works with these guys starting in high school, helping them through their formative years. For some reason you've equated that to not- good- enough to work with pros.
Footwork & Fundamentals are important at every level
Not sure what you're looking for here, but
Calhoun has (2) Super Bowl winning QBs on his list, 1 was the SB MVP
- QB clients include: Russell Wilson, Cody Kessler, Ryan Lindley, Jake Locker, Nick Foles, and Vernon Adams
- WR clients include: Keenan Allen, Sterling Shepard, Marquise Lee, Kenny Stills, Robert Woods, Kyle Rudolph
@Goalline posted:To me Love’s only true weakness WAS his accuracy. Not sure that can truly be fixed. Yes, I understand that his decision making has not always been the best, but that can be improved with coaching.
Those seem like ancient Henry-esque complaints rooted in a college season that was 3- 4 years ago. I don't think they pertain to the 2023 player.
I saw one poster ding Love for throwing behind the WR vs the Eagles, but if you actually watch the All-22... Love threw behind the WR on purpose to keep from leading him directly into the path of an oncoming DB. WR would have been murdelized
Then let's look at the throw into the honey hole of Cover-2 vs the Eagles. Love beat the short CB, dropped it in front of the safety and hit Aaron Jones square in the numbers. Jones dropped it, but that ball was freaking perfect - on time and on target.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that your concerns are outdated 
Other issues will surely arise, but I think we can safely put those ones to bed.
@Satori posted:Once again, you're conclusions are off base. Love's greatest leap coincided with his 3rd year as a pro, his first was stunted by all the pandemic-ness.
Steve Calhoun works with these guys starting in high school, helping them through their formative years. For some reason you've equated that to not- good- enough to work with pros.
Footwork & Fundamentals are important at every levelNot sure what you're looking for here, but
Calhoun has (2) Super Bowl winning QBs on his list, 1 was the SB MVP
- QB clients include: Russell Wilson, Cody Kessler, Ryan Lindley, Jake Locker, Nick Foles, and Vernon Adams
- WR clients include: Keenan Allen, Sterling Shepard, Marquise Lee, Kenny Stills, Robert Woods, Kyle Rudolph
Not necessarily a comprehensive list either, just who agreed to be listed on the site. Some guys are private and don't want their info out there. Tae is one of those cats.
@pkr_north posted:I recall reading from many qb 'gurus' that accuracy is proportional to foot placement and planting your foot and balance/stability greatly increases accuracy, so his practicing proper footwork - should- and I say -will- improve accuracy. now, what happens when he gets blitzed to no ever loving end...can he maintain cool and keep his footwork, or will he get happy feet which= int's. I think he's going to surprise us...4th year in the system, he's got that part down, mentally he should be very comfortable.
This is also the stuff they work on in OTAs, where the extended reps and attention really help a developing QB. One thing Favre had that Rodgers learned was waistline torque in order to gain velocity when your feet aren’t in ideal alignment, helping keep footwork cleaner when throwing on the move.
@Satori posted:Then let's look at the throw into the honey hole of Cover-2 vs the Eagles. Love beat the short CB, dropped it in front of the safety and hit Aaron Jones square in the numbers. Jones dropped it, but that ball was freaking perfect - on time and on target.
Of all the balls Love threw in that game the pass Jones dropped was the most impressive.
@ilcuqui posted:Only QB whose release rivaled Rodgers is Dan Marino. Love ain’t there yet. If he makes his way into that conversation then he’s an all-timer.
I am comparing Love to a latter day Rodgers not an in prime Rodgers.
@Chongo posted:Accuracy fades with age in everyone. Bert's mechanics were very poor, but early in his career it didn't matter...because he was one of those guys that was naturally accurate...at least when he needed to be. Like Mahomes...no coincidence Bert and Mahomes both flourished under Andy Reid. As Favre got older, his accuracy got worse.
10's best chance for success is to let the offense run as it's supposed to. If he does that, he shouldn't have to make too many spectacular plays. See Garappolo, see Purdy...but what he brings those two don't is a level of mobility...not saying that should be a big weapon in his tool kit, but if he uses it like young 12 did...to get out of bad situations, like Mahomes, it will be something we haven't had in 10 years from a QB.
Also, everything isn't going to be his fault...the offense has been used to playing with 12 for their entire pro careers...they are going to instinctively do things based on what they are used to. There will be lumps...some will blame it all on 10...sometimes they will be right, but sometimes they will be rong. It's going to be a process.
I don't think a lot of you realize what we have in Love. This is not a guy with a mere game manager's talent. This is a guy whose arm talent matches the best to ever play the game. If he can manage the game like Brady and Montana and throw it like Rodgers and Marino, watch out. But, that is one of Love's weaknesses. He hasn't shown game manager skills in the past.
So this is from the numbnut reporter Matt Schneidman, who just isn't very good at his job. Which is a nice way of saying he sucks
Talkin bout Love
"There have been spurts of competence, even excellence, but it means only so much when you’re doing it against a defense trying to keep everything in front of it to protect a big lead like Philadelphia did in its 40-33 win over the Packers. "
.
First off, the Eagles DB Slay said they were not playing prevent, they were running their defense. There was 10+ minutes left in the game. This was widely reported in direct quotes from the Eagles
Second, even IF the Eagles were playing prevent - Love and the Packers tore apart the one thing that defense is designed to stop: The Big Play
At the 53 sec mark. Wooooo !!!
@Goalline posted:I don't think a lot of you realize what we have in Love.
" One thing ASH points out in that video that hasn’t been discussed much with Love; Is how much anticipation he’s shown with his reads and throws. Even as a young, inexperienced player, he doesn’t have to see it to throw it.
That’s a crucial step."
That’s a crucial step."
@Satori posted:So this is from the numbnut reporter Matt Schneidman, who just isn't very good at his job. Which is a nice way of saying he sucks
Talkin bout Love
"There have been spurts of competence, even excellence, but it means only so much when you’re doing it against a defense trying to keep everything in front of it to protect a big lead like Philadelphia did in its 40-33 win over the Packers. "
.
First off, the Eagles DB Slay said they were not playing prevent, they were running their defense. There was 10+ minutes left in the game. This was widely reported in direct quotes from the Eagles
Second, even IF the Eagles were playing prevent - Love and the Packers tore apart the one thing that defense is designed to stop: The Big Play
I absolutely hate the take that Love was playing in garbage time in that game. He was in because Rodgers was hurt, not because we were being blown out. He got us within one score with 9 mins left in the game! How are the Eagles protecting a "big lead" with 9 mins left to play up by one score? It's just one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard.
The problem is that with 9 mins left, the Packer D is on the field for 7 mins giving up a FG. They could have made a stop on 3rd & 4 with 5 mins left but didn't. J.Love kept us in that game. The D blew it for us.
Just like Love kept us in the game he started vs KC, but special teams giving up 6 points plus a muffed punt that allowed KC another FG. That's a 9 point swing and we lost by 6. ST lost us that game handily but the narrative was "Love sucked in that game". If that's the case then so did Mahomes because they had the same QB Rating. But nobody ever talks about that.
@vitaflo posted:<snip>
The D blew it for us.
<snip>
how long has this been the case? Far too long, I'm afraid.
@Satori posted:
Those seem like ancient Henry-esque complaints rooted in a college season that was 3- 4 years ago. I don't think they pertain to the 2023 player.I saw one poster ding Love for throwing behind the WR vs the Eagles, but if you actually watch the All-22... Love threw behind the WR on purpose to keep from leading him directly into the path of an oncoming DB. WR would have been murdelized
Then let's look at the throw into the honey hole of Cover-2 vs the Eagles. Love beat the short CB, dropped it in front of the safety and hit Aaron Jones square in the numbers. Jones dropped it, but that ball was freaking perfect - on time and on target.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that your concerns are outdated
Other issues will surely arise, but I think we can safely put those ones to bed.
Henry was not wrong though. If you can't judge a player on his performances what else do you have? I loved the Love pick. His potential is enormous. I have been a big fan of the kid, but that doesn't mean I haven't criticized him as well. Nobody is perfect.
Even against the Chiefs when his performance was far from good, he made throws that showed his special qualities. He has already shown the ability to lead his man away from the big hit, something that takes time for QB's to learn(some never do), and he has already shown the ability to throw his man open. That throw to aaron Jones? If Jones had caught that we would still be talking about it and ESPN talking heads would be singing a whole different tune.The problem is the sample size for Love has been miniscule.
I will say one thing about Love Up until Rodgers year 3 game against the Cowboys, everything Love has done has been ahead of where Rodgers was at the same stage.
@Satori posted:" One thing ASH points out in that video that hasn’t been discussed much with Love; Is how much anticipation he’s shown with his reads and throws. Even as a young, inexperienced player, he doesn’t have to see it to throw it.
That’s a crucial step."
@Satori posted:So this is from the numbnut reporter Matt Schneidman, who just isn't very good at his job. Which is a nice way of saying he sucks
Talkin bout Love
"There have been spurts of competence, even excellence, but it means only so much when you’re doing it against a defense trying to keep everything in front of it to protect a big lead like Philadelphia did in its 40-33 win over the Packers. "
.
First off, the Eagles DB Slay said they were not playing prevent, they were running their defense. There was 10+ minutes left in the game. This was widely reported in direct quotes from the Eagles
Second, even IF the Eagles were playing prevent - Love and the Packers tore apart the one thing that defense is designed to stop: The Big Play
At the 53 sec mark. Wooooo !!!
He almost brought us back. He was the best QB in that game.
@Goalline posted:Henry was not rong though.
He wasn't rong about where Love was back in 2018
Where he got out over his ski's was in being adamant that's all Love would ever be.
" Inaccurate, poor decision maker"
He hung that phrase on Love like an iron yoke and he repeated it so often I started calling him "talking GI Joe" He was not amused
That's ok, we still love Henry and wish him well
edited to add: We just missed Henry's Birthday, first day of Spring.
@vitaflo posted:Just like Love kept us in the game he started vs KC, but special teams giving up 6 points plus a muffed punt that allowed KC another FG. That's a 9 point swing and we lost by 6. ST lost us that game handily but the narrative was "Love sucked in that game". If that's the case then so did Mahomes because they had the same QB Rating. But nobody ever talks about that.
KC threw every blitz package they could at Love in that game. Because it was his first game they could get away with that. Now I'm not so sure that would work.
@Goalline posted:I don't think a lot of you realize what we have in Love. This is not a guy with a mere game manager's talent. This is a guy whose arm talent matches the best to ever play the game. If he can manage the game like Brady and Montana and throw it like Rodgers and Marino, watch out. But, that is one of Love's weaknesses. He hasn't shown game manager skills in the past.
And 12 was going to be a bust because no Tedford QB was ever successful. From everything Gutey and MLF have said, he's taken all the steps they'd hope he has. I have no idea if that's true or not because I don't watch him in practice daily, and the live reps I have seen him play are limited.
I'll wait and see what 10 develops into. They will give him plenty of chances to get to where they need him to be, and if he doesn't MLF and Gutey will be fire long before they cut bait on 10. He'll get at least one more HC to prove he's got it.
@PackerRick posted:KC threw every blitz package they could at Love in that game. Because it was his first game they could get away with that. Now I'm not so sure that would work.
And our WRs struggled to get open. Especially Devante Adams who MLF decided with his game plan to make him the primary target on a ridiculous number of passes. MLF did not help Love with his play callling.
I have confidence in Love, no reason to think he won’t be good, but I would wait a bit before I’d order a 10 jersey. Let’s see at least a few games.
Shit.
I already ordered a 10 jersey.
It's ok BK. I tried ordering a 10 jersey too, but I messed up and ended up just getting 10 jerseys.
The only play when looking at those passes in the PHI game that I question his decision-making is the one where they showed Lazard breaking open, and Love didn't throw it to him because Love had already locked onto Watson. If Love had hit Lazard, he would have been on the doorstep of the goal line. But, Rodgers did the same thing many, many times. Love just has to learn from it. Also, Love's accuracy may have been a little off, but you can see it consciously looks like he's trying to work on planting his left foot. (I know, weird that I watch a video for that, but the subject came up earlier.)