McCarthy's gotten too comfortable.

I'm of the belief that NFL coaches have a limited shelf life of around ten years. Some fresh ideas on both sides of the ball are needed and I'm beginning to view MM as I did Mike Sherman at the end of his tenure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling MM a terrible coach. If he did get canned at seasons end (which won't happen), it'd take him about 5 minutes for him and his staff to have a new gig.

But IMO, when you have this gig for this long and no worry of it ending unless you choose to, then the drive, the initiative and frankly the fear most of us have to keep performing at a high level simply isn't there.

And that mindset trickles downhill.

Rodgers knows the above. I believe it's soured him and he's not buying into the brand that's being sold under MM. And I believe it's been that way for years now.

HOF QB's just don't come along very often, if ever. That window is there. But it's closing.

That was a crappy loss last night.  Play calling was not a thing of beauty, the tackles struggled with the noise and Rodgers had a bad game.

but---I think the flip side is there is something to be said for job security and operating without an axe over your head. McCarthy drives me crazy at times, but I think he coaches in an aggressive, we may not be here tomorrow, style.

Rodgers is smart enough to know the grass isn't always greener.

Johnson posted:

That was a crappy loss last night.  Play calling was not a thing of beauty, the tackles struggled with the noise and Rodgers had a bad game.

but---I think the flip side is there is something to be said for job security and operating without an axe over your head. McCarthy drives me crazy at times, but I think he coaches in an aggressive, we may not be here tomorrow, style.

I agree with this.  Last night was a crappy loss and it will sting but now the team has that game behind them and now it is on to the Lions.

I do agree to a certain extent that an NFL coaches shelf life is about 10 years but I think MM is an exception to that rule.  There are times that you need a steady influence when things get tough and that is what I believe the Packers excel at as a franchise.

This was a hard loss but lets think about it this way it is the second game of the season at a place I think we all knew was going to be brutal to play in.  And the other thought I have is sometimes change is not always the best solution.  And besides that who could we get that would be better?

That's why the front office does searches and conducts interviews: to find better solutions. 

As crummy as a majority of the last 14 games or so on offense have been, some how, some way, I think they work themselves out of it.  Last year, there truly was a talent gap after they lost Jordy and Montgomery, plus Cobb and Adams were dinged up. 

This year, I think there is some legitimate talent to work with, I just think it may take a few more weeks to figure it all out.   Maybe I'm just living in fantasy, but I think they'll turn it around.  It may take until after that early bye to start hashing it all out, but I think they'll find a way to use the talents of guys like Cook and Montgomery and Nelson will continue to get back up to speed.  Just figure out a way to win this Detroit game no matter how ugly it is, then regroup after the bye.

Rodgers is in a bad slump (for someone of his talents), but the good news is, he still has the arm strength and he doesn't seem to have lost any speed or quickness in his legs.  His accuracy has been a problem, but I just think he'll work himself out of it as the season goes on. 

I remember Favre went through some rough stretches in his 30s, and just when you thought he was completely washed up, he came up with seasons like 2007 and 2009 after some not so good ones.  No he didn't win any more Super Bowls, but just because he didn't doesn't mean Rodgers has to follow suit.

unfortunately, they bet that Nelson's absence was the reason for the inept play last year.

now thats obviously not the case. Hopefully there is a plan B. maybe Bennett is the scapegoat to save MM and  he hires a real OC

Evidently we couldn't get along without Janis & the Hail Mary last year.  This year that isn't an option and look where we are. 

WolfPack posted:

unfortunately, they bet that Nelson's absence was the reason for the inept play last year.

That was the fans and the media. I don't recall that coming from the players or the coaches. Certainly having Jordy back would help, and that was the word from inside 1265, but not the only answer.

The play-calling plain sucks.  They go out and finally land a TE who can potentially stretch the field, and they ignore him for most of the first half.  What happened to the slants that guys like Jennings used to turn into 20-yard plays?

And, not for nothing, shave the F-in beard, it makes him look even more stupid. 

RochNyFan posted:

The play-calling plain sucks.  They go out and finally land a TE who can potentially stretch the field, and they ignore him for most of the first half.  What happened to the slants that guys like Jennings used to turn into 20-yard plays?

And, not for nothing, shave the F-in beard, it makes him look even more stupid. 

I could not agree more about plays like the slants.  I am not totally defending MM because I do think that sometimes I think he tries and get too cute and has gotten away from what the WCO is.  Use the slant play and for god sake bring back the screen pass.

On the last INT, Collingsworth said that Adams should have run the slant (or rather a deeper version of it) because the DB was playing him to the outside, IDK how much freedom the receivers have & how much of what they run is totally based on how the DB plays them. 

Well after the 2014 season it was MM's buddy Slocum who got the boot (after fielding bottom rung units for several years).

After the 2015 season, it was TE coach Fontenot & RB coach Gash who were sacrificed.

MM also gave and then took away play calling from Clements last years.

The Offense has always been his calling card and it has not been right for going on 2 years now.

ARod & MM look about as comfortable together as my brother and his ex-wife when they jointly attend my niece's important life events.

MM seems to be flailing about for answers at this point.

Quite possible MM will never overcome what happened in Seattle in the 2014 NFC Championship game.

First off, Collinsworth is an idiot.

Second, I'd bet that Adams ran the route called based on where the ball went and the quick release.

What do you do, schematically, when your QB isn't getting the play called in time, isn't making the correct adjustments, isn't making the right reads, and isn't throwing accurately. Rodgers is poorly executing the basics of QB play. This is likely the same disagreement that I have though, is it the coach or the player? It's easier to dismiss the coach, but the player, especially the QB, is the one executing poorly. 

I guess you go back to basics at practice. That's what my kid's football team does.

Yeah it seems like the team needs to work on fundamentals...throwing, catching, BALL SECURITY, etc. 

....... Gentlemen, this is a football ..........

Uh, Coach, could you slow down a little? You’re going too fast for us.

The Heckler posted:

 

This was a hard loss but lets think about it this way it is the second game of the season 

If this were the only time the Packers offense looked like this, I'd be agreeing with you 100%.

Fact is, the offense has been dysfunctional for far more than 2 games.  It really has fallen off a cliff after the bye week in 2015.  

Grave Digger posted:

What do you do, schematically, when your QB isn't getting the play called in time, isn't making the correct adjustments, isn't making the right reads, and isn't throwing accurately. Rodgers is poorly executing the basics of QB play. This is likely the same disagreement that I have though, is it the coach or the player? It's easier to dismiss the coach, but the player, especially the QB, is the one executing poorly. 

So then my question is, does MM still have control and have the ability to rein him in and tell him his QB play is not acceptable? And will AR respect that, listen and work with MM to 'get this fixed'?

I honestly don't know. 5 years ago, I wouldn't have questioned that. But now? If he's convinced himself he knows more then the boss does and doesn't need to listen to him, that should be a significant concern.

McStupidface needs to shake things up and show he is the alfa.  Cutting an all pro might send the right message to the team.  

Well, EKB, that means Adams is still in the fold.  

The problem with this idea that McCarthy's too comfortable is that it assumes an awful lot. It assumes that Thompson isn't saying anything. It assumes the gameplan does not include Rodgers' input. It assumes that the plays being called are all on McCarthy. 

I am willing to assume none of these things. I simply cannot believe that a successful organization suddenly forgot hot to be successful. 

Offensive players to a man are saying it is execution. Based on what we saw, it's far more plausible that they aren't executing at a high level than some corporate problem at 1265 that goes all the way to the top. These men simply cannot not that dumb. 

Football is a tough sport and when players fail to execute they'll lose the game. Take Jered Cook- talented player, high expectations... Gives up a first down on a critical 3rd down completion when he runs backwards trying to make a play. McCarthy's fault? No. Rodgers'? No. Thompson's? No...

This team has been too successful for too long to think it's anything more than a piss poor game played by guys who have a higher standard. Strap it back up and come home for the Lions Ang get this thing back on track. 

Adams is a master illusionist.  He always appears to be open when in fact, he is not.  

El-Ka-Bong posted:

McStupidface needs to shake things up and show he is the alfa.  Cutting an all pro might send the right message to the team.  

He needs to be careful though, cutting an all pro who has the guts to stand up and voice the problems that everyone is seeing but not sticking their own necks out might send the wrong message. 

Is this another reference that pitchers and catchers report in 5 months? 

Grave Digger posted:

What do you do, schematically, when your QB isn't getting the play called in time, isn't making the correct adjustments, isn't making the right reads, and isn't throwing accurately. Rodgers is poorly executing the basics of QB play. This is likely the same disagreement that I have though, is it the coach or the player? It's easier to dismiss the coach, but the player, especially the QB, is the one executing poorly. 

Take away responsibility from him.   Huddle up, here is the play call, you can check to flip the play or abort to an emergency audible.   

Rodgers isn't thriving in the Peyton Manning role. 

packerboi posted:

 

Assistant coaches and coordinators who also have little to worry about as well so they've also settled into their recliners.

I'm just so glad they fired "short yardage coordinator" Jerry Fontenot.  Man if that guy was still around the Packers would be doing stupid things like opting out of chip-shot field goal opportunities to instead run James Starks out of the shotgun formation in an attempt to pick up a first down on fourth and one.

Music City posted:

 

This team has been too successful for too long to think it's anything more than a piss poor game played by guys who have a higher standard. Strap it back up and come home for the Lions Ang get this thing back on track. 

I guess I see it differently, as it relates to the offense. The offense has been pretty poor since about week 5 last year.  That's getting close to a full 16 game season.  Nelson is back, OL is healthy, Lacy is running harder, and we have a better TE group (Rodgers looks more athletic this year).  A few games is one thing but this is becoming a trend.  And there are no personnel issues that will fix the problems, no injuries or suspensions to get guys back. 

No reason to panic but I don't see how staying the course is the answer.  It's not an overreaction to two games; it's been nearly a full year since we've seen their play at a level we were accustomed to from 2010-2014.  

Forth and two. Starks got a yard. 

That sequence might be the strongest argument that Mike needs to scrap the hurry up. Maybe Mike thought he'd catch a mismatch after 3rd and two. I don't think Minny made any subs for 4th down. 

Point made last night that you throw a fade on 3rd down when you're prepared to go for it on 4th but not run it twice is spot on. 

I feel like chewing a handful of glass and laxatives right now. ****!!!!!

If staying the course isn't the answer, the only thing to do is bench Rodgers. The QB is the problem. A lot of throws are way off the mark.

It was 4th and 1, but I get your point. Starks was not the right guy to carry there. Sadly, the play was there and Lacy likely gets the first. Hell, the way he was running he might have scored.

That was a Kuhn play.

Still sick over it.......   

It was game 2 of a 16 game season. Did you expect them to go 16-0?

Yes.  

GBFanForLife posted:

It was game 2 of a 16 game season. Did you expect them to go 16-0?

But the same issues that we saw for 12+ games last year have been present these first two games.   Defense will be fine but I think we're right to be concerned about the offense.