McCarthy's gotten too comfortable.

....and another thing. It drives me nuts that on many plays, Rodgers is snapping the ball with 0 seconds left on the play clock. I get running a pseudo no-huddle where you limit the defenses ability to substitute, but it seems like there is panic to get players set, call protections, run motion, and then.... ****.... snap it !!!

As a defensive lineman I would love knowing the snap count. Doesn't this essentially help the defense ? It seemed Minnesota was shifting their defense inside of 5 seconds cause they know the Packers tendency. How bout changing it up once in a while ? 

GBFanForLife posted:

There is no real running threat. Neither of the backs is going to break one.

You don't necessarily need to break one to be a threatening RB. A back that can average 4+ ypc is a threat, which Lacy can and has, 4.3 ypc in fact. The issue is not Lacy, despite his weight, the issue is the commitment to the running game. Lacy has averaged 13 carries the last two games, that's not enough. Beyond the lack of commitment, the scheme is not conducive to the types of backs they have. Lacy is a downhill north/south runner, he struggles when he has to move laterally on those off-tackle counters and sweeps, yet that's all they seem to want to do. It seems as though they view the run as an obligation and not as the important part of NFL offense that it is. The biggest gripe I have with McCarthy, it's that he doesn't lean on the running game enough. Most coaches lean on the running game when their QB is struggling. Part of New Englands success on offense is that you can see them lean on the running game and RBs get 200 yards one week and then they lean on the passing game next week and Brady throws for 4 TDs. It's okay for that to happen, just because you have a franchise QB doesn't mean he has to throw for 400 yards and 4 TDs EVERY week. If the situation is more favorable to the running game, then RTFB. Minnesota needed a heavy dose of Lacy/Starks and that didn't happen...he played to Minnesota's strengths. 

While Lacy has great feet, he has gotten too heavy to cut back effectively, which is the corner stone of the Zone Blocking attack. Our best running play of the night incorporated a pulling tight end & Wham block on their defensive end which created a hole that lacy could run North / south in. 

I don't think it's a weight issue, I think it's a vision issue. I don't think he's seeing the lanes as effectively as he should. 

He almost has to come to a stop now when cutting, no explosion to his cuts at all, no spin move that he used in college & first year with us. 

That's what I'm saying, he's not seeing that lane open up until he's already hit the pile and then he attacks the lane. His instinct seems to be to take it wide and outside on those outside Zone runs (like it's an off-tackle run in a man blocking scheme), but there are levels of cutback lane within each zone run that he can take. Just like with Rodgers, that's not a scheme issue that is a player issue. Poor execution is the issue, it's seeing what the D is doing and not relying on your preparation to find the right solution. 

FLPACKER posted:

Our best running play of the night incorporated a pulling tight end & Wham block on their defensive end 

Was not much of a block. Cook basically just got in the way of the DE. The play design created a huge hole and all Cook had to do was play a little patty-cake.

Grave Digger posted:

That's what I'm saying, he's not seeing that lane open up until he's already hit the pile and then he attacks the lane. His instinct seems to be to take it wide and outside on those outside Zone runs (like it's an off-tackle run in a man blocking scheme), but there are levels of cutback lane within each zone run that he can take. Just like with Rodgers, that's not a scheme issue that is a player issue. Poor execution is the issue, it's seeing what the D is doing and not relying on your preparation to find the right solution. 

Do you think running him out of the I formation with AR under center would be more conducive to his skill set? 

If he is healthy I would love to see this:

http://profootballtalk.nbcspor...ller-in-for-a-visit/ 

Hard to be really instinctive when they only give him the ball sparingly.  He needs to get steady, consistent doses of the ball.  The more he gets his number called, then more he'll start seeing those cutback lanes.  You can't give him 3 or 5 carries in a half and be like, "Well, he didn't break one, so that isn't working."

I think it would. I think when he's 5 yards deep and can get momentum north/south he seems to be more successful, whether man or zone blocking. You can see the lanes develop better when you're coming straight on vs. moving laterally and finding lanes. I think out of variations of I, Ace, Pistol (which I believe is what his long run against MIN was out of), variations of the Wish, etc. I can buy the draws, counters, etc. out of shotgun when it's Cobb in the backfield, Cobb can move laterally, but not Lacy. That's a waste. 

FLPACKER posted:

If he is healthy I would love to see this:

http://profootballtalk.nbcspor...ller-in-for-a-visit/ 

 

They should also take a look at Ray Rice.

Goalline posted:

GBP1 posted:

I have mentioned before that I believe Mike McCarthy's time in Green Bay is coming to an end. 

As long as TT is in GB, Mike is safe.

Correct... and that's a huge problem. 

At this rate Kworst and Diggr are going to represent the majority opinion at X4. 

The way this offense is playing, that's understandable. 

Would love to have CJ Spiller in GB.  Cobb in the backfield is ridiculous.  

Grave Digger posted:

At this rate Kworst and Diggr are going to represent the majority opinion at X4. 

There is too much talent on this team to execute as poorly as we do on offense.  TT, MM, and AR are huge pieces to this puzzle and need to un**** themselves.  

*

Pakrz posted:

There is too much talent on this team to execute as poorly as we do on offense.  TT, MM, and AR are huge pieces to this puzzle and need to un**** themselves.  

Considering the "There is too much talent on this team" opener, is Thompson really a puzzle piece to the current state? 

I put a significant amount of the blame on Rodgers at this point. If it continues, then the shift in blame heads McCarthy's way. McCarthy told Favre they had moved on, so he should be able to Pittsburgh Macho a few pointed comments to Rodgers.

Hungry5 posted:

Pakrz posted:

There is too much talent on this team to execute as poorly as we do on offense.  TT, MM, and AR are huge pieces to this puzzle and need to un**** themselves.  

Considering the "There is too much talent on this team" opener, is Thompson really a puzzle piece to the current state? 

I put a significant amount of the blame on Rodgers at this point. If it continues, then the shift in blame heads McCarthy's way. McCarthy told Favre they had moved on, so he should be able to Pittsburgh Macho a few pointed comments to Rodgers.

Not directly, but I added him because MM is a direct report.  If MM isn't getting the job done, I'm looking at TT.  

If I had a nickle for every biscuit head who thought the season was over already and the Packers weren't going to win the Super Bowl I'd be a millionaire. Stay the course.

Got it pakrz. And I agree. McCarthy should be gone if they don't make the playoffs with this talent - barring numerous or key injuries.

phaedrus posted:

Hey GBP1,

"Last week the superb throw by Aaron Rodgers, while his jersey was being yanked backwards, to a diving Adams was one of his best ever.  So, I am not buying into the blame lies at #12's feet.  His skills haven't diminished at all."

You lost me here.  Now maybe the issue is not his skills, but that is not my point anyway.

I just don't think it is a credible analysis to refer to a single play and let that somehow dismiss all the other plays where his passes were inaccurate and often not even catchable.

My point is that Aaron Rodgers is physically quite capable of making the tough and great throws.  So I disagree with folks that say Rodgers has peaked and his performance is slipping backwards.   As to why he has been struggling...?  I think it is number of things that begins with the coaching, game plan and execution.  The talent on this team is there.  But Mike McCarthy hasn't been able to solve the problem like he was once able to do.  Remember years back when the Packers made to many penalties, too many fumbles or dropped passes and he would say "we'll address that" and it was and they improved.  Now we are hearing the same message without the same result.

Even non-Packers fans have said to me that the Packers have become too entrenched in the same old game plan and plays.  And judging by what we have witnessed these last two weeks and last season...they're right.

Ted Thompson will pull the plug on McCarthy if he needs to.  It will be tough.  But I think he will do it.  The pressure from fans and the exec committee will be too great if this team founders through this season...especially after all the SB or bust talk the last two months.  Like I said before: "All things must come to an end".  In this case, I hope it is sooner than later.

Pretty good read on offense here:

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/g...here-are-all-the-wrs

From the comments field on that link: Rodgers play has been in serious decline for a year. McCarthy who was once lauded for his creativity is now functionally fixed on 11 personnel. And, Davante Adams is a starter no matter how bad he plays. This is not the Packers anymore. This is stuff the Browns do.

Hard to vary your personnel much when you're stubbornly determined to stick with up-tempo. Either MM needs to make some changes or TT does.

Tavis Smiley posted:

If I had a nickle for every biscuit head who thought the season was over already and the Packers weren't going to win the Super Bowl I'd be a millionaire. Stay the course.

This biscuit head will kindly point out you have to be concerned when this offense has been a shadow of itself for an extensive period of time.  I hope to hell we're all wrong but a turd is a turd.  It doesn't mean this staff can't get it together as they have in the past but I think many people are questioning why that doesn't seem to be happening after some pretty catastrophic play over the course of a year plus. 

Biscuit head OUT!  *drops muffin*

michiganjoe posted:

Hard to vary your personnel much when you're stubbornly determined to stick with up-tempo. Either MM needs to make some changes or TT does.

It's one thing when the no huddle is gassing the opposing defense and little to no substitutions are being allowed.

It's an entirely different story when up tempo isn't creating any rhythm, is leading to false starts, delay of game, and miscommunications. Which has been going on over a year with MM and the offense.

And not helping our field position.

Chilli was dead on.  This offense is filthy.  Filthy rotten.

And his response will be, "We do what we do." Stubborness can lead to stupidity.

(link was already posted)

Ok! MM has them exactly where he wants them. RIGHT?

Lang sounded stoked when he was on the radio (yesterday I think)   Said they had a really productive film review.  Worth a listen

Productive film review = Rodgers admitted he played like dogs*it, McCarthy admitted he should take THE GOLLDARN POINTS!!!!!, and both of them admitted that they need to move the chains and stop going for home runs in 3rd and 2. 

More maybe they just read through a few x4 threads...

I don't care where they got their info. As long as it leads to an 8 games or longer winning streak. 

ammo posted:

I don't care where they got their info. As long as it leads to an 8 17 games or longer winning streak. 

FTFY

titmfatied posted:

Lang sounded stoked when he was on the radio (yesterday I think)   Said they had a really productive film review.  Worth a listen

 

"I've had some really good conversations with Aaron."

In other words, I'm not afraid to kick Aaron's butt and tell him he's playing like dogs***.

This is probably the first time in Rodgers career that he's being directly blamed for the lack of success of the Packers' offense.  There was the whole R-E-L-A-X thing but I don't think the media was necessarily focused on Rodgers, it was more of an entire offense thing.  Interested to see how he responds.  His whole career has been played with a sizable chip on his shoulder but it's kind of been lifted after countless pro bowls, 2 MVPs, a Super Bowl and a Super Bowl MVP.  Curious if his motivation has waned a bit from his early career when he was battling his draft freefall, his 3 years riding the bench, and media storm of replacing Favre.  

That's a great point that I hadn't really considered. The guy is weirdly wired by being an "underdog." Last year he got the Jordy and Fat Eddie pass, this is the first time it's squarely been put on him.