BrainDed posted:Take away responsibility from him. Huddle up, here is the play call, you can check to flip the play or abort to an emergency audible.
Rodgers isn't thriving in the Peyton Manning role.
That won't solve inaccurate passes though. Rodgers head is the issue. It's as much about fundamental execution as much as scheme execution.
ChilliJon posted:Is this another reference that pitchers and catchers report in 5 months?
Thon Maker, Giannis, and Jabari Parker start camp on September 27th to see if they can secure one of the bottom 4 seeds in the Eastern conference to be one of the teams eliminated by the Cavs in the playoffs. We can watch the three of them develop to the point where they can go sign with the Warriors, Lakers, Heat, or Knicks.
As crappy as the Packers look on offense, there is still a long way to go in the season and they have the potential to make a playoff run. The Bucks have won one playoff series in the last 27 years. The Brewers have won 2 playoff series in their 47 year existence. It could be worse.
Rodgers threw high over a wide open Jordy Nelson over the middle of the field.
Missed an open Trevor Davis over the middle of field
Missed Jared Cook running an in route over the middle of the field.
Yes, you are seeing a pattern.
He is having problems with sideline throws?
McCarthy asked what's wrong with
#Packers offense: "You've got to eliminate the emotion, the drama, the comparables to prior years."
packerboi posted:McCarthy asked what's wrong with
#Packers offense: "You've got to eliminate the emotion, the drama, the comparables to prior years."
Ridiculous.
I will bet MM doesn't any mirrors in his house
Rodgers obviously doesn't have any.
packerboi posted:Rodgers threw high over a wide open Jordy Nelson over the middle of the field.
Missed an open Trevor Davis over the middle of field
Missed Jared Cook running an in route over the middle of the field.
Yes, you are seeing a pattern.
He was so much more accurate when he was doing dudes. Women are nothing but trouble, AR.
GBFanForLife posted:Rodgers obviously doesn't have any.
He does, but Olivia's always looking at herself in them.
GBFanForLife posted:He is having problems with sideline throws?
Well he missed a few of those too.......
Hard to throw accurately with your head up your ass.
MM might have a drinking or drug problem
OK- if I eliminate emotion and drama how 'bout stats or numbers or trends Michael?
They all point to this offense sucking ass since the Denver game last year. About the time you took over playcalling.
Coach Stupidface reminds me of the "says who" meme. You know - that guy. Which polls? All of them.
The few games the offense got going last year was when MM took over and stopped running 11 personnel every damned play. Rodgers went back under center a bunch, Kuhn got meaningful snaps at FB with some double TE sets also, Abbrederis and Janis got on the field, etc. This season it's just regression to the Clement.
I have mentioned before that I believe Mike McCarthy's time in Green Bay is coming to an end. Heck, Lombardi lasted only 9 years in Green Bay. 8 as HC and one as GM. What makes us think McCarthy is any better and should last longer?
I think he and his staff have never recovered from that horrific loss in Seattle. Since then we have seen the Packers under McCarthy afflicted by: curfew issues, stupid penalties, poor offensive strategies, unhappy coaches, disgruntled players, sloppy execution, conflicts with his starting QB, etc. It is evident to me that there was a lot more wrong last year than Nelson's absence and so far it seems what was wrong then, might still be wrong now.
The suggestion that our current Packers team has suddenly forgotten how to win and be successful is correct if you consider last night's game by itself. But if you look at the broader picture, the unsuccessful trend began a while back and quite possibly before that ugly Seattle fiasco. Sure we see some fantastic plays here and there.
Last week the superb throw by Aaron Rodgers, while his jersey was being yanked backwards, to a diving Adams was one of his best ever. So, I am not buying into the blame lies at #12's feet. His skills haven't diminished at all. But there are more and more times where we witness an offense bogged down by predictability and staleness. We see a defense that looks stellar and suddenly looks stymied. Gosh, we watch other teams with WRs wide open on simple routes. We don't see that at all now with the Packers. Every pass play appears arduous and tentative. Then there is the running game which seems promising on paper, but uninspiring on the field.
Time is not on Mike McCarthy's side. While I like McCarthy a lot and I think he truly epitomizes what the Packers were, are and will be, I think his days with the Packers could be dwindling. It is not his fault, nor his players or even Ted Thompson's. It is just the way it is in the NFL...and for that matter in every pro sport and college too. At some point, it is just time to make a change and move on. My big fear is the Packers play well enough to get a playoff spot and then they get stalled out again and then go home early. Then what do we say and do?
While I am writing this now, I realize there are 14 games left. And I certainly am not saying Mike McCarthy should be fired. I hope I am wrong about where this all may be heading. But then I looked at how this team's performance has eroded and I think about how many other great and good coaches have fallen under the axe of change. So, for his sake, the Packers sake and for our sake these next five weeks should shed a lot of light on where this team is heading under Mike McCarthy in 2016. The Packers play their next four games at home included in this stretch is a BYE. Each team the Packers face is tough and capable of winning at Lambeau. In that same regard, the Packers are without question totally capable of winning all four games in dominating fashion. Guess only time will tell. ~Go Packers!
Hey GBP1,
"Last week the superb throw by Aaron Rodgers, while his jersey was being yanked backwards, to a diving Adams was one of his best ever. So, I am not buying into the blame lies at #12's feet. His skills haven't diminished at all."
You lost me here. Now maybe the issue is not his skills, but that is not my point anyway.
I just don't think it is a credible analysis to refer to a single play and let that somehow dismiss all the other plays where his passes were inaccurate and often not even catchable.
phaedrus posted:"Last week the superb throw by Aaron Rodgers, while his jersey was being yanked backwards, to a diving Adams was one of his best ever. So, I am not buying into the blame lies at #12's feet. His skills haven't diminished at all."
You lost me here. Now maybe the issue is not his skills, but that is not my point anyway.
I just don't think it is a credible analysis to refer to a single play and let that somehow dismiss all the other plays where his passes were inaccurate and often not even catchable.
When he works off the quick drops and release he is still hitting the target at a high rate. Even last season. The long developing deep routes and mid-range to deep outs is where he is struggling. VS MIN he hit about 70% of the throws that were of the quick release (the slants, outs, and short middle). My belief is he is no longer as comfortable in the pocket as he once was. His "scared by something" comment from last year highlights this.
“I had the easy opportunity there for a pitch-and-catch touchdown but I got scared by something," Rodgers concluded. "I can't explain it. It was a mistake by myself. I will definitely be thinking about that one on the ride home, but we have to move on tomorrow and get ready for this divisional stretch. The last play is very disappointing.”
Hungry5 posted:phaedrus posted:"Last week the superb throw by Aaron Rodgers, while his jersey was being yanked backwards, to a diving Adams was one of his best ever. So, I am not buying into the blame lies at #12's feet. His skills haven't diminished at all."
You lost me here. Now maybe the issue is not his skills, but that is not my point anyway.
I just don't think it is a credible analysis to refer to a single play and let that somehow dismiss all the other plays where his passes were inaccurate and often not even catchable.
When he works off the quick drops and release he is still hitting the target at a high rate. Even last season. The long developing deep routes and mid-range to deep outs is where he is struggling. VS MIN he hit about 70% of the throws that were of the quick release (the slants, outs, and short middle). My belief is he is no longer as comfortable in the pocket as he once was. His "scared by something" comment from last year highlights this.
“I had the easy opportunity there for a pitch-and-catch touchdown but I got scared by something," Rodgers concluded. "I can't explain it. It was a mistake by myself. I will definitely be thinking about that one on the ride home, but we have to move on tomorrow and get ready for this divisional stretch. The last play is very disappointing.”
Also from the article: The more you look at them, the more you see how unhelpful Green Bay’s route concepts are for Rodgers. Aside from the occasional rub or stack formation, you don’t see a lot of stuff designed to present Rodgers with an easy open read, or his receivers with schemed formation advantages. Green Bay’s passing game seems designed to succeed three ways this year: Rodgers throwing deep off of free plays after he’s fooled the defense into jumping offside, extending plays outside of structure and exploiting one-on-one iso matchups.
Teams have been defending the run and daring AR to beat them deep. We need to get the running game going to draw the extra guy into the box so AR sees more single high safety which will lead to more success on deep balls, which will in turn draw that extra guy back out of the box, opening up the run.
It's a catch 22 conundrum that they need to crack. Establish the run as a means of reliably moving the chains or do the same with 12+ yd passes. MM/AR seems to try one, hits a bump in the road, then gives up to try the other. No wonder the O looks like it has no rhyme or reason to it.
I wonder if MM's brother passing free Seattle in 14' has anything to do with what seems like complacency at the top?
More than the route trees or any other scheme related issues, what I see more than anything is the packers not using varied personnel. They seem to want to try and catch the Defense subbing more than bringing Lacy in on 4th and 2. Why hasn't Monty seen the field on offense? Was there ever more than 3 WR's on the field Sunday? Not that I recall. We need to get the defenses dime or quarter covering Monty or Abby or Davis, and the MLB's covering cook instead of safety's. MM and 12 used to be great at exploiting matchups, not so much anymore IMO
4-5 receiver sets spreading the defense out and then either going to the match-up we liked or letting Lacy run vs. light box.
Here's a good look at personnel for the Pack in recent years. Per the article, the team has used 11 personnel 70% of the time this year, and all variations of 3 WR sets 77% of the time. This is obviously showing little variation, but the team used 11 personnel 62% of the time in Rodgers' 2014 MVP season. Can't say for sure that's the issue, but it could mean defenses have caught up and have little reason to prepare for anything else.
I'm not a tape guy, but I think there's definitely something to the middle of the field disappearing. I feel like nearly every pass is a contested throw on the boundary. Maybe it's play design, maybe it's how defenses are responding, or maybe it's the QB's refusal to make risky throws. My guess is it's a combination of the three.
All coaches have a end....the question is this....is this the beginning of the end, the middle of the end or the end of the end?
They all go sometime whether it be by their schedule and wishes or by the teams.
My guess is he's around for a while.
They say head coaches have a lifespan of 10 years, maybe MM is getting to the end of his. Eventually the message just doesn't get through. Mike Shanahan, Tom Coughlin - maybe it happens to MM too. Hopefully he can turn this around.
FLPACKER posted:4-5 receiver sets spreading the defense out and then either going to the match-up we liked or letting Lacy run vs. light box.
5 wide leaves with you no extra blockers and the D can flood passing lanes while still having 2 LB's in the box. Hard to throw anything less than 7 yards there because of the congestion which means AR is waiting for a deep ball to open. Can't run Lacy with 5 wide because he'd be the 12th man. With 4 wide and Lacy in the backfield, the D is either going to bring an extra guy in the box, play man with S help, or again flood the lanes and dare Lacy to pick up more than 4yds with 5 OL vs. 6 defenders.
When the O is clicking, they can have success doing both but it hasn't been.
Guys are getting open. AR isn't hitting them.
CUPackFan posted:They say head coaches have a lifespan of 10 years, maybe MM is getting to the end of his. Eventually the message just doesn't get through. Mike Shanahan, Tom Coughlin - maybe it happens to MM too. Hopefully he can turn this around.
The only guy MM has to worry about this happening with is AR. Rest of roster is constantly changing. How many of the 2010 roster is still on the 53 today? 6? But if it is a AR/MM problem then yeah, that's a big matzo ball.
10 years is a long time to sustain success. MM has basically been Marty Schottenheimer except he's won a Super Bowl. There's definitely frustration with him but who are you going to hire that's better? He's 105-56-1 in the regular season.
I think the bigger issue is Rodgers. He's still a top-tier NFL QB, but he hasn't had a game with a QBR over 100 since last September and just doesn't seem like the same guy. It doesn't appear there is anything physically wrong with him, but the game stats are really concerning.
He's thrown for more than 2 TDs in only 1 of the last 17 games (the Carolina game last year where they went into a prevent defense in the 4th quarter).
He's had a YPA of more than 7.0 only 1 of the last 14 games (Detroit Hail Mary). His career average is 8.0.
From Nov. 2010 (when they started the Super Bowl run) until October 2015, he threw 185 TD passes with 33 interceptions (5.6/1 ratio). From November 2015 until now (16 games - so the last full season) he's thrown 26 TDs and 10 interceptions.
From the time he became a starter until the Carolina game last year, Rodgers had 92 pass plays for over 40 yards, (he averaged about 11.5 a year and I don't think any of these were Hail Mary's). In the last 12 games he's had 3 and all were Hail Mary's (two long throws to Janis in the Arizona playoff game the Detroit one to Richard Rodgers).
This team will not make a run with this current version of Aaron Rodgers. Whether it's in his head, whether his receivers just aren't good enough, or whether the defensive schemes have just caught up to them, it's not a blip anymore, it's 16 games worth of this.
Skippy Bayless says that Aaron is overrated. Maybe its Aarons fault and MM doesn't believe it so he doesn't give the right play calls to an overrated QB.
Maybe its not all MM's fault
Edit: so does PFF https://www.profootballfocus.c...ow-about-nfl-week-2/
Based on the current evidence as outlined by MichiganPacker, it pains me to say that Idot Bayless is right.
GBP1 posted:I have mentioned before that I believe Mike McCarthy's time in Green Bay is coming to an end.
As long as TT is in GB, Mike is safe.
PackerPatrick posted:Skippy Bayless says that Aaron is overrated. Maybe its Aarons fault and MM doesn't believe it so he doesn't give the right play calls to an overrated QB.
Maybe its not all MM's fault
Edit: so does PFF https://www.profootballfocus.c...ow-about-nfl-week-2/
I move to ban all Skip Bayless quotes from the board. If we can't post pornography we shouldn't be allowed to post anything that man says. Bayless is obscene, in my world. At least, porn is actually pleasant to witness. Bayless is torture!!!
I second the Skip Bayless ban.
Agreed. No more Bayless. Ever.
After reading more of this topic, I am sold on the idea that the Pack to a large degree has not been doing many quick slants and needs to add that to the scheme.
It is even unreal that they have not done it more.
One thing. That SB win. The two slants to Jennings (the TD and the crucial first down pass the last time the Pack had the ball), the ball had to be so on target. What awesome throws. (Realizing at least the TD throw may not have been a quick slant being a bit deeper. Still, a middle of the field slant.)
Fourthed!
Bayless probably thinks the Pack needs to get rid of Rodgers and acquire Tebow.
Bayless was saying AR was overrated when he was playing lights-out and winning MVPs. AR's current slump doesn't change his (lack of) credibility.
DH13, I completely agree about the running game. I am not even sure they really have to defend the running game since IMHO there is no running game to be a threat. So since there is no threat from a running game they become one dimensional, the D can constantly rush 5, and if the receivers get no separation you then have a perfect storm on offense too be out of whack.
There is no real running threat. Neither of the backs is going to break one.
Skippy is trying to distract everyone from wondering why NE hasn't missed a beat w/o his queer crush Brady and Gronk.
I hope their 3rd stringer Crunchy Brisket lights it up this weekend.
