Similar mix on the 2nd drive that went 10 for 71 yards down to the NYG 21, only to end with the INT at the 5.
GBFanForLife posted:At least there was only one Inverted bone
The way this offense is playing has totally inverted my bone.
MM won a Superb Owl with his offense. Only 6 other coaches in the last 7 years can say that. And, besides him, only the UN acknowledged super genius Bill Belichek has been to the playoffs each of those 7 years. So his faith in his system is understandable.
But his passing offense based on reading the bias of the defense and adjusting the routes toward its weakness assumes that knowing which route is going to be run is sufficient advantage to succeed without dominant talent. That is nominally true but requires precision of execution that may not be achievable in this era of reduced practice.
The secret to defending it is now clear. Play vanilla;Harass the receivers at the LOS and don't allow a clean release; control the rush to limit passing lanes to areas where the secondary is not strong and keep AR in the pocket.
Jeff Janis is proof that MM is wedded to his scheme. Why MM has kept him is a puzzle. McCarthy obviously likes the potential physical mismatch he represents. But JJ is apparently unable to process the play calls and adjustments in real time and thus only sees the field under dire circumstances. Players can get bigger and stronger; Maybe a little bit faster. Their technique can improve. But they're not going to get smarter. It's clear MM isn't going to play guys until they know the system, rather than adapt the system to the talent on hand.
grignon posted:MM won a Superb Owl with his offense. Only 6 other coaches in the last 7 years can say that. And, besides him, only the UN acknowledged super genius Bill Belichek has been to the playoffs each of those 7 years. So his faith in his system is understandable.
But his passing offense based on reading the bias of the defense and adjusting the routes toward its weakness assumes that knowing which route is going to be run is sufficient advantage to succeed without dominant talent. That is nominally true but requires precision of execution that may not be achievable in this era of reduced practice.
The secret to defending it is now clear. Play vanilla;Harass the receivers at the LOS and don't allow a clean release; control the rush to limit passing lanes to areas where the secondary is not strong and keep AR in the pocket.
Jeff Janis is proof that MM is wedded to his scheme. Why MM has kept him is a puzzle. McCarthy obviously likes the potential physical mismatch he represents. But JJ is apparently unable to process the play calls and adjustments in real time and thus only sees the field under dire circumstances. Players can get bigger and stronger; Maybe a little bit faster. Their technique can improve. But they're not going to get smarter. It's clear MM isn't going to play guys until they know the system, rather than adapt the system to the talent on hand.
You are exactly right about how to defend the Packers offense. Jam the receivers to ensure no separation, keep them in front of you to limit the yard after the catch, and since you can play vanilla in the secondary you can use more of the front 7 to contain Rodgers since they don't have to blitz too much. I still say that the ultimate reason for this is that there is no real threat out of the Packers running game. Sure Eddie will get the occasional 15-20 yard run but usually it is a 2-3 yard run that doesn't loosen up a defense. And on top of that there still is zero threat from the TE position to stretch the inner part of the field. I personally think the talent is there at the WR position it just is so easy for defense to defend them right now. I like Eddie I truly do but I think to make this offense really good they need something or anything out of the RB position to keep the defense honest.
So what does MM have to do? stop being cute like running a college spread play on the 5 yard line with Aaron running. Get some screen passes back in the offense (remember those?) and how about some slant passes (remember those?)
Could you elaborate on this "screen pass" you speak of?....I am not familiar with this play....
Yes, the screen play is always the popular go-to for people who need to offer suggestions on what might work better than what was run. Problem is you can only run a screen on an overpursuing defense that has committed enough guys to rush the passer. D's are only sending 3 or 4 per the current blueprint so at least 1 or 2 of those other 7 or 8 guys defending the pass can easily play the short outside routes.
El-Ka-Bong posted:CAPackFan95 posted:Grave Digger posted:All schemes work when executed properly.
So, what happens when an offense is executed properly vs a defense that is executed properly?
Each subsequent play gets the offense half the distance to the goal
Zeno would tell you that you'll never actually get to the end zone that way. 
Not only that, but Rodgers has been wildly ineffective in throwing a simple screen.
Who are they throwing a screen to? There are no running backs. The WR screen isn't a traditional screen pass.
CAPackFan95 posted:Grave Digger posted:All schemes work when executed properly.
So, what happens when an offense is executed properly vs a defense that is executed properly?
The offense wins. You can't defend a perfectly run option route with perfect ball placement. The defender needs to pick a position, inside, outside or trail. Based on that, the route is run to counter it and the ball is thrown to the correct position.
We've seen it from Rodgers and Jordy 100 times with the back shoulder play on the sideline or the fade up the field. When the QB and WR are on the same page and ball is placed well, it can't be defended. This is just one variation of it.
Vince kept it simple. Run to day light. Throw to the open receiver. Do what they don't expect. And get some points.
Lombardi also did what they expected and still won...
Rodgers is getting paid multiple millions of dollars to move the ball down the field. He's simply not making the plays when they're there to be made. It starts and ends with him. If it's a close game we can make excuses, but when his play is glaring he needs to own it for his team mates. He's accepting blame grudgingly when he should be out front shouldering the majority of it.
It would be nice to hear him say his bad play ends now and then go out and back it up or get embarrassed trying. The local press has given him a polite pass for a long time. He needs to own his next performance.
titmfatied posted:Rodgers is getting paid multiple millions of dollars to move the ball down the field. He's simply not making the plays when they're there to be made. It starts and ends with him. If it's a close game we can make excuses, but when his play is glaring he needs to own it for his team mates. He's accepting blame grudgingly when he should be out front shouldering the majority of it.
It would be nice to hear him say his bad play ends now and then go out and back it up or get embarrassed trying. The local press has given him a polite pass for a long time. He needs to own his next performance.
Agreed about ARod.
Now, MM is also getting paid multiple millions of dollars to coach the offense to move the ball down the field (he really does nothing for the D).
Why does it not start & end with him?
And why should MM get a pass from the local & national press (where ARod is taking some well-deserved lumps) for consistently crappy offensive play?
Especially, when MM acts so offended that the uniformly positive Wisconsin press (except for McGinn) dares to question the performance after the Giants game.
MM ought to thank his lucky stars every day he coaches in such a forgiving environment.
Yeah, the proverbial buck stops with MM. This team has internal problems. And it aint just with AR. There are troubles aplenty. Fat RBs, stupid penalties, poor communication, dropped passes, contagious fumbles, bad routes and defensive inconsistencies. That's on MM.
The Bears smell blood in the water. By God, the Packers better be ready.
This game is a going to be a test of MM's leadership skills. We will learn a lot tomorrow night
El-Ka-Bong posted:We've finally reached the pinnacle of how to fix things. The coach needs to sit down with the player and get things squares away.
Might as well be the baseball board
It would help if the body language specialist was available.
SteveLuke posted:Agreed about ARod.
Now, MM is also getting paid multiple millions of dollars to coach the offense to move the ball down the field (he really does nothing for the D).
Why does it not start & end with him?
And why should MM get a pass from the local & national press (where ARod is taking some well-deserved lumps) for consistently crappy offensive play?
Especially, when MM acts so offended that the uniformly positive Wisconsin press (except for McGinn) dares to question the performance after the Giants game.
MM ought to thank his lucky stars every day he coaches in such a forgiving environment.
I think McCarthy gets frustrated when the team wins and people act like they lost. Some people, even in the media, act like they're 0-5 and the wheels are falling off. I imagine it gets old when you feel positive about winning and all the media wants to talk about is what the team did wrong. That's not to say nothing went wrong in the wins, there are things to fix, but for the last 2 season it seems the only questions he's getting asked are "what's the deal with Lacy's weight" "what's wrong with the offense" "what's wrong with Rodgers" "how can you fix the offense" blah blah blah. It's the media's job to ask those questions, but I don't blame him for being frustrated or annoyed.
I think McCarthy is in a tough spot. I honestly think he knows what the offense needs to do, but the QB drives the offense. You can build car that is capable of performing better than any car out there, but if the driver of the car is drunk then the car won't work correctly. McCarthy can tweak the car and make it simpler for the driver, but it won't operate like it's capable of until the driver sobers up.
Heard Lynn Dickey yesterday say that the main issue seems to be arrogance. I 100% AGREE. It appears that it permeates every level of this team. Management, coaches and player (at least the highest level of each of those levels).
GBFanForLife posted:MM isn't on the field.
And here I thought coaches are supposed to have some impact on what happens on the field.
They do, especially when what happens is good.
So, why am I afraid of the Chicago game, again?
McCarthy doesn't know how good he's got it. Sure, guys like McGinn and Wilde can be difficult at times but the press that follows this team generally gives them a free pass most of the time.
You won't see that in most other media markets.
CHEEZE posted:Heard Lynn Dickey yesterday say that the main issue seems to be arrogance. I 100% AGREE. It appears that it permeates every level of this team. Management, coaches and player (at least the highest level of each of those levels).
I think ARROGANCE is as much to blame as the fans.
You can't spell It's Arrogance without Arrigo, just sayin'.
Arrogance/stubbornness/whatever with a side of pressing isn't a great combo, IMO.
Grave Digger posted:I think McCarthy gets frustrated when the team wins and people act like they lost. Some people, even in the media, act like they're 0-5 and the wheels are falling off. I imagine it gets old when you feel positive about winning and all the media wants to talk about is what the team did wrong. That's not to say nothing went wrong in the wins, there are things to fix, but for the last 2 season it seems the only questions he's getting asked are "what's the deal with Lacy's weight" "what's wrong with the offense" "what's wrong with Rodgers" "how can you fix the offense" blah blah blah. It's the media's job to ask those questions, but I don't blame him for being frustrated or annoyed.
I think McCarthy is in a tough spot. I honestly think he knows what the offense needs to do, but the QB drives the offense. You can build car that is capable of performing better than any car out there, but if the driver of the car is drunk then the car won't work correctly. McCarthy can tweak the car and make it simpler for the driver, but it won't operate like it's capable of until the driver sobers up.
MM is shackled with colossal playoff failures. There is no doubt those dumpster fires color the conversation. Basically you have a fan base and media outlets looking at a QB with once in a life time talents and anticipating a first round exit or massive, titanic failure as they get close. This regime is turning us into Vajeen fans for **** sakes.
The only thing the coach can control is the players on the field. Maybe it is time to bench Rodgers.
Also, "less ****ty than the other team that played really ****ty" should not absolve you from inquiries as to why you were still ****ty.
Henry posted:MM is shackled with colossal playoff failures. There is no doubt those dumpster fires color the conversation. Basically you have a fan base and media outlets looking at a QB with once in a life time talents and anticipating a first round exit or massive, titanic failure as they get close. This regime is turning us into Vajeen fans for **** sakes.
So what you're saying is that you're siding with the QB over the organization and saying the organization owes it to the QB to get him what he needs to win a championship? Sounds less like a Queen fan and more like a Favre fan.
Grave Digger posted:So what you're saying is that you're siding with the QB over the organization and saying the organization owes it to the QB to get him what he needs to win a championship? Sounds less like a Queen fan and more like a Favre fan.
Jesus ****. Shut your hole. It's generalized perception across the board. There's plenty of blame to go around for a stale organization but leave that strawman red herring **** at the door.
Don't get pissed at me because these days you're a Rodgers fan first.
Isn't it the HC job to drive results? I always thought the buck stopped with MM.
Rodgers needs to take accountability for his performance but McCarthy has been running on fumes since the Seattle playoff loss.
Grave Digger posted:Don't get pissed at me because these days you're a Rodgers fan first.
I get pissed when people don't have a leg to stand and pretend they do by trolling. I'm guessing you're a Trump voter.