McCarthy's gotten too comfortable.

Hungry5 posted:

Is Rodgers missing open receivers part of that blueprint? His 'timing' issue is more the issue than WRs being open. In the INT at the end of the game, when Rodgers threw the ball, all 3 WRs were open.

It's symbiotic and intertwined. Rodgers "knows" guys aren't (consistently) getting open, so he's looking to bail every play when they don't. 

It also means TT needs to keep the receiver position stocked, and they're sticking by DuhVante even though he's struggling. It's not all on any one person. 

The thing is, guys are consistently getting open. DEN did a good job jamming the WRs as did CAR. But that wasn't done by everybody. 

What I don't know, and none of us know (which Rodgers emphasized in his whiney retort to Wilde's questioning), is when the WRs are open, are they open when and where they are supposed to be?

Downfield past the line of scrimmage?

Like the INT thrown toward Adams. Did DA cut the rout outside at the right break-point? Should he have cut it at 13 yards due to the coverage versus the 15 yards he did?

On the INT. Waynes was squatting outside. Probably told by the coaches to stop letting guys get on top of him to remove the chances of him panicking and grabbing wildly and drawing an easy flag. 

Adams has an easy reception if he turns an out into a post in. No idea if they give Adams the freedom to start freelancing like that but that coverage dictated (demanded) the middle of the field.  

He broke the route directly into Waynes lap. That was wrong. Aaron should not have thrown to Adams. That was wronger. The pass that Aaron ended up throwing was wrongest. 

Exactly! We discussed this in another thread & although the true WCO would have Adams "read" Waynes and cut inside, AR is releasing the ball before Adams makes his cut, telling us that it was predetermined that Adams was breaking to the outside no matter where the defender was playing. Collingsworth commented on this during the game, blaming Adams for the poor read, but it does appear that he did not have an option. 

Adams had straight man coverage with Waynes. I mean pure man coverage. Of all the routes that should have been run an out route given Waynes squatting on the outside was the worst possible option. I have no idea if that's on Adams. Rodgers. Coaching. Preparation. Scheme. Lack of live bullet reps. Trying to pick up another cheap flag on Waynes....All I know is there was little chance of that pass being completed. It should not have been thrown. And if it was thrown it needed to be a much better pass than the one that was made. 

Rodgers locked on Adams from the snap, he needed to throw a better ball or Adams needed to cut that route a bit shorter.

He needed to not throw the ball.

RochNyFan posted:

"But Rodgers needs to be cautious.  If his Belly Fire Index were to exceed his Discharge Quotient, it could result in an explosive situation.  

I'd love to discharge some of my quotient into Olivia's face. Wait! I don't know what that means.

ChilliJon posted:

On the INT. Waynes was squatting outside. Probably told by the coaches to stop letting guys get on top of him to remove the chances of him panicking and grabbing wildly and drawing an easy flag. 

Adams has an easy reception if he turns an out into a post in. No idea if they give Adams the freedom to start freelancing like that but that coverage dictated (demanded) the middle of the field.  

He broke the route directly into Waynes lap. That was wrong. Aaron should not have thrown to Adams. That was wronger. The pass that Aaron ended up throwing was wrongest. 

That ball was thrown before Adams made his break. I think Adams did exactly what he was supposed to.

I'm thinking Adams should have made his break a step or 2 earlier.

But what does Collinsworth think?

He thinks we should be running the true WCO....like we used to,  because if we did Adams would still be running with the ball. 

Adams ran the same route the week before in Jax. He broke the route outside 3 yards before he did in Jax. 

Everything about the plays was different. The route. The throw. The delivery point. The velocity on the pass. I don't get why so many variables change on a timing route like that route that they've probably run hundreds of times in practice. 

Like I said. That wasn't the right route or pass given the defense presented to them. Adams bends that route to the middle it's an easy pitch and catch. You have to take what a defense gives you. Green Bay didn't. 

AR gave his garbage to Davante and he dropped it.

Which tells you that on that play they were not running the true WCO, which gives the receiver the option of adjusting his route depending on how the defense is playing them. That, or both AR & Adams read the defense incorrectly. On a pass up the sideline to Nelson, Collingsworth again correctly pointed out that if running WCO, Jordy should have looked for back shoulder throw because his defender was above him, AR threw it there but Jordy kept running. Stuff like this was routine before last season & now seems like a major struggle. 

Hungry5 posted:

Like the INT thrown toward Adams. Did DA cut the rout outside at the right break-point? Should he have cut it at 13 yards due to the coverage versus the 15 yards he did?

Also a possible thought/point. Should he have cut inside, or cut is shorter? Either way, what he did didn't work, nor was it a good throw.

The next question is if Adams didn't run the proper route adjustment, did Rodgers notice he wasn't cutting off quick enough and "clutch" his throw a bit, throwing off accuracy and velocity, leaving it flutter inside of where he wanted to put it. 

Seems to me that this thread needs revisiting. A couple of wins before last night put this on the back burner. No innovation from the coach. Cobb in the backfield doesn't cut it. And when was the last time we saw a receiver wide open? Me neither.

#18 looked open in the end zone to me

Janis was wide open on his little route into the middle of the field.  He sat there with nobody covering him for 3 seconds before Rodgers finally found him. 

BrainDed posted:

Janis was wide open on his little route into the middle of the field.  He sat there with nobody covering him for 3 seconds before Rodgers finally found him. 

Yep. He threw it to him as a total last resort. If he throws it earlier, Janis may have been able to turn it upfield instead of barely getting the first down.

There's a lot of WR's open. Rodgers is screwed up in the head. He's Chuck Knoblauch.

Wide open Cobb in the back of the endzone, with Rodgers throwing it to the cutie in the 3rd row.

Un-EFFING-believable

Maybe he is channeling his inner Chester Marcol.

Snorting coke like there's no tomorrow?

He does spend a lot of time in Hollywood.

Not trying to completely absolve AR for his performance. But....

lets say you run four isolation routes. AR is starting with what he views as clear single coverage as his first read. We know that from recent history that route is probably covered. So he starts going through his progressions. Only by that time those four isolation routes have probably been run and it's every man for himself looking for space. So Aaron holds it, progressions are out the window and he's looking over the entire field waiting for someone to flash. By the time he gets back to a guy like Janis standing by himself in the middle of the field it's probably too late to turn a completion into much more than a completion. 

In the rare occasion someone like Cobb's isolation comes clean I think it's gotten to the point it surprises Aaron and he pulls the trigger fast. 

Its an offense that is overly reliant on his ability to play the position while increasing the speed he needs to see the field that's stressed him to a point that's clearly not sustainable for a highly functioning offense. 

Its all broken right now. I refuse to believe this is all on Aaron. This is a collective failure. 

I wonder what the team is saying in private. Do they primarily blame AR? MM? TT? Other coaches? What do they think is broken? I think it was Lang who said the ball has to come out quicker, but whether he was suggesting it was AR or MM was unclear.

From what I've seen, I lay the large majority of blame on AR simply because of how he is misfiring. Missing Cobb wide open in the EZ. Hitting the RB in the feet on a simple dump off. Afraid to throw on rhythm (the yips). Always going for the bomb instead of moving the chains. Poor mechanics. 

MM shares blame if AR's head has gotten too big. It's the coach's job to rein in guys who put themselves above the team. MM shares the blame for the scheme and always counting on receivers winning the one-on-ones. (The opposing DBs are earning an NFL paycheck as well.) 

This team has the personnel to make a deep run, especially if we get the DBs healthy. Right now, it's a stretch to see anything but a one-and-done, if we even make it to the playoffs.

You forgot to put any of the blame on the WRs.  Does Janis! know how to run a route tree?

And you can blame the fans for thinking putting in an ex-Badger will solve all of the team's problems. 

ChilliJon posted:

Its an offense that is overly reliant on his ability to play the position AT AN ALL PRO/HALL OF FAME LEVEL/PLAY OUT OF HIS MIND while increasing the speed he needs to see the field that's stressed him to a point that's clearly not sustainable for a highly functioning offense. 

Its all broken right now. I refuse to believe this is all on Aaron. This is a collective failure. 

FTFY.

The NFL has figured out this offense and MM's 11 personnel package well over a year now. And the only thing hiding that fact was 12 playing like Joe Montana. And he hasn't since early 2015

Inexplicable why Rodgers throws this.   He throws a duck directly to the defender. At the last second it looks like he pulled the trigger and then changed his mind. The way the Oline was holding them off, Rodgers could have taken another almost 2 seconds to make a better decision or even run. Bulaga tosses his guy to the ground, leaving lots of green to the right...

Where are THESE plays?!?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6FxOA4-DHE

WHERE ARE THEY????

This was last September. It's absolutely ludicrous that this Packer team is playing as $#!TTY as they are!

It's the same GOD DAMN PLAYERS!!

That seems like years ago.

Did you  notice how most of AR's plays were made after he ran outside the pocket? The "book" on him now is to above all else keep him in the pocket where for whatever reason he is not that good & does not seem to see the field as well

FLPACKER posted:

Did you  notice how most of AR's plays were made after he ran outside the pocket? The "book" on him now is to above all else keep him in the pocket where for whatever reason he is not that good & does not seem to see the field as well

Precisely. Those highlights look good because Rodgers is extending the plays and throwing on the run. He's gotten into terrible habits of bailing/jail breaking from the pocket when there is no need to, throwing off his feet and/or throwing "all arm" and his patience in the pocket has gone to shi*.

THAT is what's mind boggling to me. He was once one of the best passers between the hash marks, great pocket passer in the face of a blitz, and deadly accurate. He's not injured either and is in terrific shape.

What.

The.

Fuc*.

Happened.

So those highlights look good because he's extending plays throwing on the run but now he's gotten into terrible habits of breaking from the pocket? 

What happened to play designs like this? 

From the pocket. Ball out fast. Anyone remember the last time you saw Dick Rod and Ty stacked? Probably this simple completion. 

This isn't all on Aaron. If you think that then you're fine with Aaron going elsewhere and Mike coaching up the next QB. You sure that's the direction you want to go? 

MM will go before AR does.

ChilliJon posted:

So those highlights look good because he's extending plays throwing on the run but now he's gotten into terrible habits of breaking from the pocket? 

What happened to play designs like this? 

From the pocket. Ball out fast. Anyone remember the last time you saw Dick Rod and Ty stacked? Probably this simple completion. 

This isn't all on Aaron. If you think that then you're fine with Aaron going elsewhere and Mike coaching up the next QB. You sure that's the direction you want to go? 

The reason defenses are allowing Rodgers all day to throw is because the bottom line he's lost his patience, accuracy and has developed terrible mechanics while sitting in the pocket. Are there exceptions to that? Of course. Even last night he did make a couple of throws in the pocket that he completed that looked OK.

But there's a reason defensive coordinators no longer fear Rodgers sitting back and picking defenses apart. Including when, at one time, he would kill defenses if you blitzed him right up the middle. Not anymore.

Is this entirely on AR? No. I agree that I do not know what happened to slant routes, bubble screens, and what MM would call "high percentage" pass plays that have a very good chance of being completed. MM also claims to be committed to the run but we all know for the most part that's bullschit as well.

But Rodgers and MM have morphed into sandlot football and home run pass plays that require him to flee the pocket and opposing DB's to cover 6-7 seconds which of course we know they can't cover all day. Compare that to staying in pocket, making your reads, proper mechanics etc and you can see why DC's are opting to let him sit there. Inside the pocket, he's a different QB and has been so for quite awhile now.

This is a pretty good summation of how, when, and why things have broken down with the offense. 

Link. 

Right now the offense has a lot of issues.  But before it can get right, Rodgers has to improve his accuracy and decisiveness.  Nothing else matters if Rodgers can't deliver the ball on target and on time.  Nothing.