What me Murphy likes him. He’s safe.
Where's the pick of Rat jr and Pettine in CLE? Jr knew how to attack Pettine's D.
This is so stupid. He coordinated the best defense we’ve seen in GB in a decade, showed tons of promising things to build on and now we’re talking about getting rid of him? The same shit was talked in SF last year about Saleh.
Everyone acknowledges huge gaps in the DL, at ILB, and at CB, so how can you trash the DC while simultaneously agreeing there are talent gaps?
Fucking idiotic. Really?? Fire Pettine...
Anyone that believes that shit is fucking Stoooooopid
The same stooges who defended Dom for years will defend Pettine. How many more high priced free agents and top draft picks will it take before he can be blamed?
Thirty-one defensive coordinators should be fired every season.
I remarked in the game thread that fantasy-think has invaded football, and too many people want immediate retribution for failure. "Decisions" are made instantly with no thought given to any possible consequence.
This is a perfect example of that.
omfg, they got beat - FIRE EVERYONE!!!
jc, buy a vowel people
Tdog posted:omfg, they got beat - FIRE EVERYONE!!!
jc, buy a vowel people
I think some people lost their bowels today.
heyward posted:The same stooges who defended Dom for years will defend Pettine. How many more high priced free agents and top draft picks will it take before he can be blamed?
The offense came out flat today, who should they fire?
Timmy! posted:I remarked in the game thread that fantasy-think has invaded football, and too many people want immediate retribution for failure. "Decisions" are made instantly with no thought given to any possible consequence.
You can't really believe people didn't think that way before fantasy sports, can you?
heyward posted:The same stooges who defended Dom for years will defend Pettine. How many more high priced free agents and top draft picks will it take before he can be blamed?
Two.
excalibur posted:heyward posted:The same stooges who defended Dom for years will defend Pettine. How many more high priced free agents and top draft picks will it take before he can be blamed?
The offense came out flat today, who should they fire?
Came out flat? If not winning your 1-on-1's and getting beat is playing flat then yeah, I guess they came out flat. Looked more to me that they were just getting beat by better players.
excalibur posted:Tdog posted:omfg, they got beat - FIRE EVERYONE!!!
jc, buy a vowel people
I think some people lost their bowels today.
Todd Bowles isn't available. I checked.
Not to the extreme it's reached over the last few years.
heyward posted:The same stooges who defended Dom for years will defend Pettine. How many more high priced free agents and top draft picks will it take before he can be blamed?
Seriously? Pettine has been in Green Bay for two years. We went from 22nd in points allowed to 9th in his second year, the first top ten scoring defense Green Bay has had since 2010, and you want him fired?
LOL
How many high draft picks and free agent acquisitions has he had? Alexander and Savage, both of whom are Pro Bowlers in the making, but not there yet. The Smiths and Amos. A safety and two edge rushers. He inherited Kenny Clark, another star on the rise.
There are eleven starters on defense. King is a work in progress. Outside of Z and Preston Smith, and Clark, the rest of our front seven is dog shit. Sorry if anybody thinks Martinez is great because he gets a lot of tackles. He’s a slightly better version of AJ Hawk that lacks speed and athleticism. We were 23rd in the NFL against the run. The up the middle guys need to be dramatically improved upon.
We could have had Buddy Ryan out there coaching the D. With the personnel we had on the field, he couldn’t have done much better than Pettine. Capers, meanwhile, got high pick year, after year, after year, and we kept getting beaten. The comparison at this point is way premature.
lambeausouth posted:How many high draft picks and free agent acquisitions has he had?
8 of the 11 starters are 1st or 2nd round picks or Free Agent Signings.
In the last 11 years this franchise (taking into account the last 2 DC) has had:
12 First Round picks - 10 on D
12 Second Round picks - 7 on D
9 Third Round picks - 5 on D33 picks in the first 3 rounds. 22 on D. Green Bay hasn't spent a 1st round pick on a skill position player since...2005. Hell they've only drafted 2 skill position players in the first 2nd rounds in the last 11 years. They are overindexing on drafting D in the 1st 3 rounds, and especially the first. While that doesn't guarantee success, it isn't like they aren't trying to provide defense for the DC.
Capers, meanwhile, got high pick year, after year, after year, and we kept getting beaten. The comparison at this point is way premature.
There have been 7 picks in the first 3 rounds since Pettine has been here. 5 of them are on D. Three 1st rounders, a 2nd, and a 3rd. And, as I pointed out above, the trend thus far with Pettine tracks identically to Capers. The franchise has, and is spending, the vast majority of early picks on D be it Pettine or Capers at DC.
Advocating to fire Pettine today is reactionary silliness. There has been much improvement Year over Year. We should expect improvement next year as well, especially against the run. If what we saw today continues repeatedly, then we can have a conversation. No one advocated firing Capers after the 2009 AZ playoff loss. Hardly anyone brought it up after the Giants playoff debacle in 2011. After the 2012 SF curbstomping? Yeah, people started complaining more then. After 2013? Yuuuup. 2014? OMG YES WHY DIDN'T MM FIRE HIM BEFORE THE PLANE LANDED???? But, we are not there yet.
That said, to excuse today's performance on lack of high draft picks and free agent signings is factually incorrect.
I think it's a matter of improvement as to whether Pettine stays or goes. We saw improvement this year but was it due only to Gute's moves in adding the Smiths, Amos, drafting Savage, and another year for Jaire and King? In other words, better players? Has Pettine made the most of the talent he's been given over the two years? Why have we not seen more of Gary, MAdams, etc.?
What it boils down to is: Is the reason for the defense's improvement just due to better players, and how good are the play calls and coaching? I guess that's something MLF, Gute, and Murphy will have to determine.
I've been thinking about this a lot since the end of the game.
When is the last time Green Bay had a stout, nasty, run stopping inside/middle LB? Been plenty of guys that are basically edge rushers, but when is the last time they had someone inside that you'd look at as really good against the run?
Nick Barnett? I mean I liked Nick, but if he's the best you got in like 20 years, ugh...
Timpranillo posted:I've been thinking about this a lot since the end of the game.
When is the last time Green Bay had a stout, nasty, run stopping inside/middle LB? Been plenty of guys that are basically edge rushers, but when is the last time they had someone inside that you'd look at as really good against the run?
Nick Barnett? I mean I liked Nick, but if he's the best you got in like 20 years, ugh...
Desmond Bishop for about 1.5 years beginning in 2010 but then he got hurt.
heyward posted:The same stooges who defended Dom for years will defend Pettine. How many more high priced free agents and top draft picks will it take before he can be blamed?
Nobody wanted Dom gone sooner than I did and he deserves every bit of criticism he received.
But Dom was not responsible for TT's dogshit drafting on the defensive side of the ball this decade (Perry, Worthy, Datone Jones, HaHa, Randall, J. Jones, etc.) and the only reason the defense improved as much as it did this season is because Gutey moved on from TT's boys at outside linebacker Clay and Perry and at Safety HaHa, Brice and Josh Jones.
The Pack as 1 defensive lineman and no worthy inside linebackers.
Gotta hope Gutey sends TT's middle linebacker Martinez on his way and it would be great if he recognized it was a stupid move to sign Lowry to a new contract as well.
the overhaul is not done yet. we are in year 2 of the reset. i am as pissed that they lost on the biggest stage as anyone, firing abm is not the answer, talent is. we improved by what 6 games? that's something that you can hang your hat on and work on next year. the team has to hate what it felt like last night. they lost to the better team.
SteveLuke posted:Nobody wanted Dom gone sooner than I did
After it was obvious that we were losing almost every one-on-one matchup I would have liked to see some run blitzes, some gambling that may have left us susceptible to the big pass play, but at least we wouldn't be demoralized by their physical domination. ILBers seemed to be playing 5 yards from LOS, by the time they reacted to the ball they were still 2-3 yards from LOS with a blocker on them. Safety / CB blitz, something to make them pass the ball.
I'm curious what LaFleur will do with Pettine this year offseason. It seems the Packers made it a preference that Pettine be kept on during the coaching interview process. Maybe ML gives him one more year assuming Gute can provide a talent infusion at the ILB spots. I know Pettine tried to hide Martinez by having the DL keep him as clean as possible, but BM's lack of speed and downhill play gets exposed too often.
BM also has the communication in his helmet.
Something to be said for that.
Getting rid of Pettine doesn't help the growth of this defense.
You cannot coach speed.
Pettine lined up in base 3-4 to stop the run almost the entire game. Guess what happened? SF had a large speed advantage and simply ran around that defense or through it before GB could do anything about it.
It is why KC nearly beat them with some derelict backup QB.
It's why SF with Crappyneck beat them before ------SPEED.
GB has been small and slow. They are somewhat better now but still have guys who are small and/or slow who can be taken advantage of. SF has speed. KC has speed. NO has speed.
GB has slow WRs. One RB with any speed, No TEs with speed. One CB and one S with speed. That ain't enough. When you run up against teams that can put 3 fast guys out on offense you'd better have at least 3 guys who can run with them.
On offense if you don't have speed you cannot have automatic match up advantages or simply run around or past defenses. Adams is quick as hell but he isn't fast. Jones is quick, shifty and has burst. He seems to be a revelation, but not to me. I've been praying GB gets a guy like him for years.
Lots of holes to fill and lots of places GB can add speed. Now they just have to do it.
The athleticism of their WR's over ours showed in the limited times they touched the ball....bigger / stronger / more athletic to break tackles in the open field.
Looked as tho Petine decided he was not going to let the 49ers pass their way up and down the field. At least he can say that was successfull.
49ers RB Raheem Mostert had 142 rushing yards before contact on Sunday, per @RobDemovsky. That’s about as telling a stat as you’ll find about a run defense.
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) January 20, 2020
Problems yesterday went beyond the talent gap.
Pettine's mantra in his introductory presser said he believed you need to stop the pass first. I forgot the catch phrase he used. He held up that part of the deal seemingly at the cost of the run D. They paid a price for that all season in rushing yards against and had a big fat exclamation point put on it last night. Look at our great pass D!!!
A darkhorse argument regarding the D and run D is...are the Smith's any good at defending the run when they have to? They can't be excused because they rush the passer well.
Was it Tramon who said, there weren't just holes, there were huge holes.
Smiths are strong against the run, 49ers schemes around them and Clark. Took runs wide to the outside to pressure ILBs and CBs or off tackle outside zone runs that run inside of edge containment. Those runs pressure DEs and ILBs, two huge weaknesses on this D. How do you defend that? Discipline play from ILB and Safeties to not overrun and fill lanes, controlling the LOS and attacking the gaps, and acceptance that there will be gains, but there doesn’t have to be explosive plays. 4 ypc isn’t normally going to beat Aaron Rodgers, but 9 ypc obviously is.
One way is to force those fast guys inside where theoretically our guys could tackle them. Yesterday, King (more than once) and Alexander and Savage fell for the fake and gave them the sideline. Result, extra yards and first downs. Tenn let Mahomes do it too. Result, TD. Football and basketball 101, drilled into my head by coaches 60+years ago....don't give up the sideline.
This beating is much different than the beating Kap gave us. In that one we simply were out schemed over and over again. In this one we were beat physically.
We knew they were going to run and had the best personnel we had on the roster out there trying to defend it. I think Goodson played the whole game, which he hadn't done all year. We played 3 DL all game, which he hadn't done all year. It just so happens that 4 of the 5 guys in that DL / ILB group are backup quality at best and they were going against one of the top oline / TE groups in the NFL.
The truth is somewhere in the middle. Kaep killed Dom's D with the RO and being able to run well. Yesterday we were out muscled and out run but also out schemed. There were misdirection or against the grain runs by WR's that caught the D completely off guard.
Interesting thing is after spending an entire offseason learning how to defend the RO, Dom's D did much better against it but then had other problems. That seems like an easy fix compared to the challenge the current D has.
Pettine isn’t a bad DC, I think he can build on what they did this season. If they make a change so be it, I will support the new guy, but I think anyone they bring in is going to face a similar struggle until they solve the ILB. Maybe our new coordinator is already on staff, OLB coach Mike Smith. Known for being a great teacher and motivator, definitely got 1000% from his position group this season.
Yep, stay status quo your first year and then bring in YOUR guy. Good news is I suspect it could be a Saleh disciple. Bad news? I guess you can only become a great team if you draft in the top ten for several years.
