Grave Digger posted:heyward posted:The same stooges who defended Dom for years will defend Pettine. How many more high priced free agents and top draft picks will it take before he can be blamed?
Two.
Two, maybe three. As noted, help at DL, ILB, and CB.
I think it was the fact that Pettine didn't make any adjustments to stop the run that bugged me. Go to a heavier 4-3 or even a 5-man line. Heck, put 8 in the box and dare Garropolo to beat you. Seven passes! 7! And they get 37 points with no ST help. They just ran over and over and over, and Pettine did nothing differently.
Someone said Pettine said to stop the pass first with SF. Why? According to NFL stats, in the regular season SF was ranked 13th for passing offense with 237/yds/game; 30 passing attempts per game with an average of 8.4/play and only 8 plays of 40+ yards. SF was ranked 2nd in rushing offense with 31/game at a 4.6/play average for 144/game average.
Against the Vikings, SF passed only 19 times for 131 yards and JG had one TD, one INT, but rushing they had 186 yards. SF crushed them in TOP, 38:27 to 21:33. Last night, SF had 285 yards rushing.
Tell me again why stopping the passing game was of primary importance?
All brakes no pass?
Fandame posted:I think it was the fact that Pettine didn't make any adjustments to stop the run that bugged me. Go to a heavier 4-3 or even a 5-man line. Heck, put 8 in the box and dare Garropolo to beat you. Seven passes! 7! And they get 37 points with no ST help. They just ran over and over and over, and Pettine did nothing differently.
Someone said Pettine said to stop the pass first with SF. Why? According to NFL stats, in the regular season SF was ranked 13th for passing offense with 237/yds/game; 30 passing attempts per game with an average of 8.4/play and only 8 plays of 40+ yards. SF was ranked 2nd in rushing offense with 31/game at a 4.6/play average for 144/game average.
Against the Vikings, SF passed only 19 times for 131 yards and JG had one TD, one INT, but rushing they had 186 yards. SF crushed them in TOP, 38:27 to 21:33. Last night, SF had 285 yards rushing.
Tell me again why stopping the passing game was of primary importance?
This.
At least they held the Niners to negative rushing yards the final three plays of the game. So there’s that.
So they're on the upswing!
Pettine made adjustments. Lots of them. This will show when the 22 film is out. He just has nowhere to go with SF eliminating Clark and getting next level because Lowry and Lancaster were basically on the ground the entire game.
SF ran a play where Kyle Jusczyk ran a quick inside hit PA fake and then turned outside on a pitch to Mostert. Martinez ate 100% of the fake and got swallowed in the wash on the wrong side of the flow.
Jusczyk spun out of his PA fake and sprinted 15 yards to clear out a DB then sprinted another 20 yards to clear out a safety. 35 yard easy run. It was an incredible play design to lay waste to GBs deficiency in the shallow middle.
GB can’t bring Martinez back. At any price. He’s got film that good coaches will exploit quickly and easily.
ChilliJon posted:
GB can’t bring Martinez back. At any price. He’s got film that good coaches will exploit quickly and easily.
Completely agree.
At this point, I have a hard time comprehending how anyone can advocate for bringing Martinez back other than because he seems like a good guy.
He was awful yesterday and SF didn't even attack the weakest part of his game, pass coverage.
DH13 posted:The truth is somewhere in the middle. Kaep killed Dom's D with the RO and being able to run well. Yesterday we were out muscled and out run but also out schemed. There were misdirection or against the grain runs by WR's that caught the D completely off guard.
Interesting thing is after spending an entire offseason learning how to defend the RO, Dom's D did much better against it but then had other problems. That seems like an easy fix compared to the challenge the current D has.
MLF talked about the misdirection / reverses in his post game presser. Basically said they got caught in man to man on those.
Those certainly hurt, but it was the standard run game that hurt the worse IMO.
Fandame posted:I think it was the fact that Pettine didn't make any adjustments to stop the run that bugged me. Go to a heavier 4-3 or even a 5-man line. Heck, put 8 in the box and dare Garropolo to beat you. Seven passes! 7! And they get 37 points with no ST help. They just ran over and over and over, and Pettine did nothing differently.
Someone said Pettine said to stop the pass first with SF. Why? According to NFL stats, in the regular season SF was ranked 13th for passing offense with 237/yds/game; 30 passing attempts per game with an average of 8.4/play and only 8 plays of 40+ yards. SF was ranked 2nd in rushing offense with 31/game at a 4.6/play average for 144/game average.
Against the Vikings, SF passed only 19 times for 131 yards and JG had one TD, one INT, but rushing they had 186 yards. SF crushed them in TOP, 38:27 to 21:33. Last night, SF had 285 yards rushing.
Tell me again why stopping the passing game was of primary importance?
We played more 3 DL and 2 ILB than we had all season.
Goodson typically gets about 10 to 15 snaps a game and the rest go to Sullivan/Greene. On Sunday he had 39 and Sullivan was reduced to 8.
Lancaster typically gets 20 snaps a a game and the rest go to a 5th DB or 3rd OLB. On Sunday her had 35.
Who the hell do you want to pull off the field for these imaginary run stuffers? Take off Preston Smith for Montavious Adams? Z Smith for Keke? The only realist possibility there is Goodson for Keke / Adams. Not gonna make a difference. We simply don't have the talent at ILB or DL to hold up against them.
Data
https://www.acmepackingcompany...the-run-even-in-base
https://subscribers.footballgu...s/teampage-gnb-6.php
michiganjoe posted:49ers RB Raheem Mostert had 142 rushing yards before contact on Sunday, per @RobDemovsky. That’s about as telling a stat as you’ll find about a run defense.
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) January 20, 2020Problems yesterday went beyond the talent gap.
ESPN showed one play where Preston Smith lined up at the right side of the LoS. He rushed straight ahead in an empty area. Not a body near him. Meanwhile, the SF LT immediately runs upfield and to his right and blocks a Packer player who was at the second level.
The run was a major gash. Like sprinting along an empty expressway.
Scheme-wise, it was a horrific failure.
I think ESPN said it happened more than once.
our run d has been schite all year. no mystery. what do you adjust when you don't have the horses? whatever abm would do, would be countered, and while still running, cuz they did it...55's comments were rough to hear, but I don't think it was a lack of adjusting its just like when you are sucked into a rough current of water, you can't pull yourself out...its kind of that helpless type deal...sometimes you need better players, this is the case. maybe z didn't want to hear that they got pwned 2x but they did.
So, does Pettine keep his job?
Matt Bowen has a clip on his twitter feed showing another huge run, where P. Smith charged hard inside due to a fake inside by the lead blocker ("Juice"-chek), and then the safeties took terrible angles to tackle Mostert at the second level. This was multiple levels of failure. So, is that coaching? Or is it all players. I'm embracing the power of AND.
I'd be shocked if Pettine is fired.
Neither Gutenkust or MLF appear to be idiots.
This team needs a serious influx of speed and talent at ILB, another corner (Tramon isn't getting any younger) and depth, a more experienced Savage at Safety, and speed and bulk around Clark. Then let's see what Pettine does with that.
We also need to keep in mind who's left if you'd make a change this late into the season at DC. Quality coaches are usually long gone by now.
If they're going to dump Pettine it needs to be for a high energy, motivator type like Kris Richard. He's the same breed as Saleh in terms of creating a culture on defense.
Plenty of quality names out there but I suspect the view in the organization is that it's more personnel than coaching. Finally got the pass rush fixed and now they need to do the same with the rushing defense.
Shortest path to success will be beefing up the existing run D and setting up Pettine for success.
One thing that hurt the D a lot vs SF was the fact the offense didn't hold on to the ball long enough. ANY defense is going to break eventually if you leave them on the field long enough.
GB can’t bring Martinez back. At any price. He’s got film that good coaches will exploit quickly and easily.
This. Easily. I suspect his tears after the game were as much for the end of his dream of a big contract as anything else. He's not gonna cash in after that. The whole league was watching.
Also, I wonder how the game would've changed had we gone for it on that first possession at fourth and 1, made it, cashed in and taken an early lead. Perhaps nothing, perhaps something.
YATittle posted:
Also, I wonder how the game would've changed had we gone for it on that first possession at fourth and 1, made it, cashed in and taken an early lead. Perhaps nothing, perhaps something.
There were a couple what if moments. GBP needed all those to go their way to make the game close.
Play was really fourth and two.
Paid content but this is the crux of it:
There are a few secrets in NFL coaching circles. It wasn’t a coincidence that Pettine was out of a job in 2016 and ’17. No one wanted him. Losing is one thing. Failing even to compete, both physically and schematically, is another
pkr_north posted:our run d has been schite all year. no mystery.
phaedrus posted:ESPN showed one play where Preston Smith lined up at the right side of the LoS. He rushed straight ahead in an empty area. Not a body near him. Meanwhile, the SF LT immediately runs upfield and to his right and blocks a Packer player who was at the second level.
The run was a major gash. Like sprinting along an empty expressway.
Scheme-wise, it was a horrific failure.I think ESPN said it happened more than once.
michiganjoe posted:Paid content but this is the crux of it:
There are a few secrets in NFL coaching circles. It wasn’t a coincidence that Pettine was out of a job in 2016 and ’17. No one wanted him. Losing is one thing. Failing even to compete, both physically and schematically, is another
Ol' Bad Bob again. Ok, here's the reality check.
When Pettine was fired by the Browns, they owed him $3.5 million each year for the next two years-2016 and 2017. So, no urgency for him to get back into coaching (just like the Packers owed McCarthy $9 million for this past year, a reason he didn't plunge right back to coaching after he passed on the Browns' job).
Next, Pettine said this after getting fired: "So I really weighed both sides of it and had real good conversations with [my agent], Trace [Armstrong], and just felt like, unless a great opportunity comes along, I don't want to jump back in just for the sake of jumping back in, because there are so many positives to taking a year off. It's been a tremendous thing for me, both personally and professionally." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/...-time-away-from-game
Finally, Pettine was a consultant for the Seahawks in 2017, so "out of a job" is inaccurate. And, I'm sure that Pete Carroll, who is defensive minded head coach, didn't hire Pettine as a consultant because nobody else "wanted him."
Not to defend Pettine and his scheme (or lack thereof against the 49ers) but as a reminder to always take with a grain of salt anything McGinn says, or his analysis of anything football related.
Yes, it's a given that anything Bob writes has no credibility with you. You've made that very clear numerous times.
Here's a bit more of Bob's critique:
Pettine and his defensive staff were largely responsible because their players appeared to be unprepared and poorly coached. Matt LaFleur’s position coaches on defense include Jerry Montgomery (defensive line), Mike Smith (outside linebackers), Kirk Olivadotti (inside linebackers) and Jason Simmons (defensive backs).
Pettine used three defensive linemen on 43 of the 49ers’ 55 gradable snaps. Other than a couple of plays, however, it wasn’t until the midway mark of the fourth quarter that the coordinator sold out with a six-man front that included three 300-pounders and three outside linebackers. The Packers could have done that much earlier. Given how the run defense was performing, what harm would it have done? But for 3 ½ quarters, Pettine remained steadfast trying to prevent Garoppolo and tight end George Kittle from beating him rather than Mostert and the 49ers’ run-blocking unit.
michiganjoe posted:Here's a bit more of Bob's critique:
Pettine and his defensive staff were largely responsible because their players appeared to be unprepared and poorly coached. Matt LaFleur’s position coaches on defense include Jerry Montgomery (defensive line), Mike Smith (outside linebackers), Kirk Olivadotti (inside linebackers) and Jason Simmons (defensive backs).
Pettine used three defensive linemen on 43 of the 49ers’ 55 gradable snaps. Other than a couple of plays, however, it wasn’t until the midway mark of the fourth quarter that the coordinator sold out with a six-man front that included three 300-pounders and three outside linebackers. The Packers could have done that much earlier. Given how the run defense was performing, what harm would it have done? But for 3 ½ quarters, Pettine remained steadfast trying to prevent Garoppolo and tight end George Kittle from beating him rather than Mostert and the 49ers’ run-blocking unit.
I wonder if he just recycled text from his article on Dom Capers and Kaepernik running wild in that playoff game.
What gets me is seeing what they did to the Vikes in the second half of that game, who could not have seen that coming? Was It a pick your poison kind of thing? Why was Raven Greene not out there? I was expecting something unexpected, like him shadowing Kittle.
Heard someone say that was as bad as anything Dom put on the field and I can't say I disagree.
Based on the bits and pieces I've read about Pettine's personnel/scheme vs. SF, I'm going to guess that Shananihan may very well not have planned to only throw the ball 8 times. He probably just decided to keep running it because Pettine wasn't making any efforts to stop it with a heavier box. He actually "kept running whatever worked until the other guy stopped it". Which he never did until it was long past decided.
I agree with the 4-3 front being pretty damn puzzling after what we saw from ABM all season but the 4-3 with Lancaster and Goodson in there isn't exactly a stop the pass defense. Farthest from it. The point is those guys just flat out got beat. So I have zero clue what the kvetching about only scheming to stop the pass is about.
Last time I checked, guys like Deebo still did a pretty solid job. You can absolutely point to talent deficiences and scheme. I think Pettine's biggest offense in the game wasn't the 4-3 fronts but the personnel in those fronts. That's where the risk/reward would be but they just plain got beat.
Edit: Yes, he definitely should've went with a heavier box too. Personally, I hope Mayo gets the guy he wants for the sake of continuity for the future. That may be Pettine, it may not. Either way, make a decision and stick with it.
DH13 posted:Based on the bits and pieces I've read about Pettine's personnel/scheme vs. SF, I'm going to guess that Shananihan may very well not have planned to only throw the ball 8 times. He probably just decided to keep running it because Pettine wasn't making any efforts to stop it with a heavier box. He actually "kept running whatever worked until the other guy stopped it". Which he never did until it was long past decided.
Yes I read that Shananihan said in the press conference afterward that they had planned a more balanced offense, but the Packers never stopping the run changed that plan....
Henry posted:I agree with the 4-3 front being pretty damn puzzling after what we saw from ABM all season but the 4-3 with Lancaster and Goodson in there isn't exactly a stop the pass defense. Farthest from it. The point is those guys just flat out got beat. So I have zero clue what the kvetching about only scheming to stop the pass is about.
Last time I checked, guys like Deebo still did a pretty solid job. You can absolutely point to talent deficiences and scheme. I think Pettine's biggest offense in the game wasn't the 4-3 fronts but the personnel in those fronts. That's where the risk/reward would be but they just plain got beat.
Yeah, can't help but believe--and i could be wrong--that more snaps for Gary might have helped.
michiganjoe posted:Paid content but this is the crux of it:
There are a few secrets in NFL coaching circles. It wasn’t a coincidence that Pettine was out of a job in 2016 and ’17. No one wanted him. Losing is one thing. Failing even to compete, both physically and schematically, is another
Ouch!
YATittle posted:What gets me is seeing what they did to the Vikes in the second half of that game, who could not have seen that coming? Was It a pick your poison kind of thing? Why was Raven Greene not out there? I was expecting something unexpected, like him shadowing Kittle.
Greene wasn't out there because we needed that ILB spot to be filled by someone more adept at playing the run. Goodson.
As far as Bob complaining about not adding more 300 pounders, it didn't matter. If you go with a 4-3 you are removing Goodson for Adams or Keke. Whoopdi doooooo.
You want to go goalline and remove a DB on 1st and 10 from the 20?
We simply just got out manned.
All the players on defense just played like shit.
michiganjoe posted:Paid content but this is the crux of it:
There are a few secrets in NFL coaching circles. It wasn’t a coincidence that Pettine was out of a job in 2016 and ’17. No one wanted him. Losing is one thing. Failing even to compete, both physically and schematically, is another
Don't know about nobody wanting Pettine...he did have 2 years remaining on his deal after Cleveland fired him. McGinn sure loves to throw dirt after the fact though.
What still astounds me is that the SeaHawks(twice), Falcons, Rams, Arizona, and even the Redskins were able to compete with the 49ers while we get curb-stomped. That's not murderers row.
In the 1st half of both games(4 Quarters) against the 49ers the Packer offense puts up ZERO points. 0 points in 4 quarters of football while the game was still in the balance. Meanwhile our defense gives up 50 points !!! 23-0 and 27-0. Ouch
I think Matt's brother stole the game plan.
They didn’t steal the game plan they just out coached the shit out of MLF and Pettine
I think MLF deserves a pass but Pettine? I’m not so sure. Count me as totally unimpressed at what he’s accomplished. Yeah I get it he looks like a bad ass but the results are the results. And he’s a retread.
The Packers missed a golden opportunity in not reaching out to Dave Aranda to run their defense. He might be one of the best in the game at running the 3-4 defense and he excelled when he didn’t have top tier talent (see Utah State and Wisconsin) and became elite one he got top tier talent (LSU).
Pettine is just a guy. Nothing more, nothing less.
Michael Lombardi has become pretty brutal on some of his opinions. He's roasted Trubisky many times. This is what he had to say about the game:
"It might've been one of the worst coaching jobs I've ever seen in a conference championship game".
Jump to about 18 min mark. This is a podcast with 2 former Brown's players including the Joe Thomas talking about their playing days with Pettine and Kyle Shanahan. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Pettine. It sounds like Shanahan did not have much respect for Pettine and could coach circles around him.
Conference Championship Recap: Kyle Shanahan Dominates, Mahomes Balls Out, and Philip Rivers To Florida
