I agree. It's time to go all in.
Watt may be part of that. Offer him an incentive laden contract.
Watt already stated his incentive. He wants to win.
Wait....do the Packers play the Steelers in 2021?? Nope, JJ is not coming to Green Bay.
@GBFanForLife posted:Watt already stated his incentive. He wants to win.
He's probably the first athlete to ever say that
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:He's probably the first athlete to ever say that
He has already made a shitload of money playing for a team that had no chance of winning the Super Bowl.
I forget which one, but a former NFL Exec of the Year once said " This ain't fantasy football".
One could argue that since about '92, other than a few years, the Packers FO has been "all in".
The inside linebacker position for the last decade and a half would argue otherwise.
Getting ILBs or the success of the players acquired?
Proof is in the puddin'. 40 years of HOF QB play, 2 Super Bowls.
If I'm honest, Guuuuhhhhh probably isn't the GM who could pull it off anyways.
The jury is out on Gute, but this team has made a number of decisions that have limited their ability to win more Superbowls.
In more recent history, there is no way a well coached team loses the NFCCG in Seattle the way they did. But the Packers doubled down on ineptitude by keeping Capers around and held onto MM way too long. The same could be said for TT and his health. His last 3 drafts were basically a disaster and we are still paying for it today. Murphy probably waited at least a couple of years too long to pick his successor, which he really didn’t anyway given the goofy power structure in place with Ball and Gute and MLF.
Fast forward to this year and it was all there in front of them and they choked yet again with questionable decisions from coaches and also bad play by some of their key players.
Realistically, they should have at least made to a couple of more Superbowls in the last 10 years.
It’s entirely possible that they can win another title but ask Kansas City how easy or difficult that is. Or the LOB Seahawks that are now looking to tear it all down. The bottom line is it’s hard to win a championship in the NFL and yes I think GB is capable of doing so but they still need some things to fall into place including some good fortune.
It is hard to win it all. And it sucks to be on the doorstep so often and not kick the door down.
1-4 in NFCCG since 2010.
@Tschmack posted:It’s entirely possible that they can win another title but ask Kansas City how easy or difficult that is. Or the LOB Seahawks that are now looking to tear it all down. The bottom line is it’s hard to win a championship in the NFL and yes I think GB is capable of doing so but they still need some things to fall into place including some good fortune.
Consecutive years? Yes, ask the 2010 Packers. Over nearly 4 decades with the most important position in football manned by HOFers? Different question.
Constantly putting the onus on the future while ignoring deficits right here and now while you still have a HOF QB is idiotic. What proverbial pieces will fall into place if you gave them to Wimpy to gladly pay you back on Tuesday?
They've had 28 seasons since they first made the playoffs with Favre. They've missed the playoffs 7 times in those 28 years. 3 of those years they had a first-year head coach, 1 year was Rodgers' first as a starter, and 1 year Hundley was their leading passer when Rodgers was hurt. So, in only 2 years in that span when they've had their preferred starter at QB and at least a season to implement a new system they've not made the playoffs.
The failure to win more than one title with either Favre or Rodgers really trace back to a few bad years by both Super Bowl-winning GMs at the end of their tenures in Green Bay.
In retrospect, they probably pissed away their several chances to win another during Favre's prime by Wolf hiring Ray Rhodes instead of Andy Reid (so he didn't have to take the criticism of passing over Sherm Lewis to hire Reid) and then by elevating Mike Sherman to GM when Ron Wolf left (Sherman was a MM-level coach, but made a lot of terrible personnel decisions). In other words, as good as Wolf was from 1992-98, his ego (or failure to manage his ego with Holmgren's cost them a couple of titles) and his later drafts really hurt the franchise. His last 3 drafts were not as strong as his earlier ones either. In 1998, he got Vonnie Holiday and very little else. Then, he arguably overreacted to the arrival of Randy Moss by using his top 3 picks in 1999 to reach for DBs and overall had a terrible draft (tempered only by the fact he took Driver as a 7th rounder that year). He did OK in 2000 (Franks, Clifton, and KGB), but those last 3 drafts set the foundation for the talent decline in Sherman's later years and the way he departed essentially forcing them to either elevate Sherman to GM or bring in a GM with power over him didn't help either. With 20/20 hindsight, Harlan should have had a better plan to transition from Wolf and perhaps try to keep Holmgren (although Paul Allen's deep pockets might have been difficult to overcome) or at least do a real search to get a GM that could pick their own coach.
History repeated itself to some degree with TT. He hung on way too long at the end. We all can see now he was not operating at an optimum level and it cost some chances to really give a team with a Top-5 QB all-time a chance to win several more.
https://theathletic.com/241920...ll-leads-deep-class/
Two guys that certainly will be in play at 29 if they’re available:
3. Christian Darrisaw, Virginia Tech (6-foot-5, 315 pounds)
Upper Marlboro, Md. (Riverdale); Age: 21.91
A three-year starter at Virginia Tech, Darrisaw lined up at left tackle in offensive coordinator Brad Cornelsen’s inside/outside zone scheme. He went widely overlooked as a high school recruit, but he developed quickly and made 35 starts at left tackle for the Hokies the last three seasons and earned the attention of NFL scouts in the process.
Keeping his weight over his toes, Darrisaw shows efficient slide quickness in pass protection and he is a bulldozer in the run game when he unlocks his hips to create movement or seal-block. While he shows the ability to manhandle defenders once he locks on, he tends to hit the cruise control button towards the end and you want to see more of a killer instinct. Overall, I wish Darrisaw was a more consistent finisher, but he has outstanding body control and feet for a man his size. He shows the technique and torque to be an NFL starter at either tackle or guard.
7. James Hudson, Cincinnati (6-foot-4, 302 pounds)
Toledo, Ohio (Central Catholic); Age: 21.96
A one-year starter at Cincinnati, Hudson lined up at left tackle in offensive coordinator Mike Denbrock’s scheme. After starting his college career as a defensive lineman at Michigan, he made the switch to tackle and transferred to Cincinnati where he didn’t allow a sack in his one season (11 starts) for the Bearcats.
Hudson fires out of his stance and achieves a balanced position in pass protection to mirror with quick, controlled steps. With only 719 career snaps at tackle, he has some bad habits, forgetting his feet or allowing his pads to rise, but he flashes power in his upper half to create torque on command. Overall, Hudson requires continued technical refinement to match up in the NFL, but his light feet, strong hands and natural balance are an intriguing starter pack at left tackle. He projects best in a zone scheme where he can develop into an above-average starter.
I doubt Darrisaw is. Guys with his experience on the left side who also have the athleticism are in high demand. I think he'll be the second or third OT of the board.
As for Hudson, NFW I'd want him in the first. He's another Tony Moll-type with little technique or experience at the position. If taking a guy that high, he needs to play right away at least until Bak returns and really should be the regular starter at RT from day 1.
I guess if you’re taking a player like that you’re banking on the fact that he’s an ascending talent. He’s barely 22 and we have arguably a top 5 OL coach, so there’s plenty of time to mold a guy a like that. I’m not pushing for the guy, but he fits the profile of what Gute seems to look for...young, heavy handed, aggressive, zone scheme fit/mover, etc.
Poor man's Patrick Queen...he's still be an upgrade to the ILB tallant we have. And he's a day 2 guy!
Nice zone runner...one cut and up the field. Would soften the blow of losing Jones and/or Williams
Yeah Cox has some juice for sure. Looks a little light, but he hits.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:They've had 28 seasons since they first made the playoffs with Favre. They've missed the playoffs 7 times in those 28 years. 3 of those years they had a first-year head coach, 1 year was Rodgers' first as a starter, and 1 year Hundley was their leading passer when Rodgers was hurt. So, in only 2 years in that span when they've had their preferred starter at QB and at least a season to implement a new system they've not made the playoffs.
The failure to win more than one title with either Favre or Rodgers really trace back to a few bad years by both Super Bowl-winning GMs at the end of their tenures in Green Bay.
Thank you for the reminder of just how stable this franchise has been for a big part of our lifetime. I put it firmly in the hands of the GMs for not winning more Super Bowls. The franchise has made some mistakes for sure (they all do) but it is quite remarkable in this salary cap era they have maintained success.
Whoever has been at the helm has overall done a great job with getting offensive players but damn they sure do swing and miss on defense. There are exceptions like when TT did a great job the year he pulled off getting Raji and Matthews but overall? not so much.
I for one am patient with Gute because he inherited a complete mess and he has been doing whatever he can to improve that roster. However, I do think this upcoming draft could be the make or break point for him.
1998, 2003, 2007, 2011, 2014, 2020. These were the years they could have, and should have, been Super Bowl teams. 3 of those seasons the reason they got there was also the reason they lost in the playoffs (Favre). The other 3 were were failures of personnel and coaching that generated unthinkable mistakes in games where they should have beaten an inferior opponent.
TT had some brilliant picks - Collins, Rodgers, Raji, CMIII to name a few. Jennings, Jordy, Finley, Sitton, TJ Lang, Bulaga, Burnett, etc.
The 2005 draft may go down as the best in team history. 2008-2010 drafts were as good of 3 consecutive drafts as they’ve had in team history.
The issue with Ted is if you look at his more recent drafts they aren’t good. I attribute that to his failing health more than anything else. Clearly he was struggling and it probably occurred sooner than we even knew.
BTW Music City- 1995 has to be included. Favre threw a critical pick in the 4Q of that game v Dallas. Had that team advanced they most certainly beat the Steelers.
@Music City posted:1998, 2003, 2007, 2011, 2014, 2020. These were the years they could have, and should have, been Super Bowl teams. 3 of those seasons the reason they got there was also the reason they lost in the playoffs (Favre). The other 3 were were failures of personnel and coaching that generated unthinkable mistakes in games where they should have beaten an inferior opponent.
1998 - Questionable. Holmgren was already mentally in Seattle and that clearly contributed. But Randy Moss' arrival played a huge role. I'm not sure the Packers would have beaten the Vikings in a title game that year if they'd have gotten there. The fact they lost to the Falcons when a guy missed his first FG all year instead of icing makes it the worst loss in Viking playoff history.
2003- Agree. A dominant run game would have gotten them past the Panthers in that title game had they made it. Favre's thew that game away, but not running Ahman Green on 4th and 1 with 2:30 left to ice it was a coaching problem (sort of like kicking a FG down 8 this year).
2007 - Agree.
2011- Agree. The death of Joe Philbin's son was the biggest issue in playoff prep, but the game turned on a 37-yard passing TD at the end of the first half. Sound familiar?
2014- Obviously agree.
2020- Part 2011/part 2003 (turnovers, a terrible defensive play at the end of the first half, and passive coaching decisions at key times)
And 2020 - the loss Bakhtiari was huge. He stays healthy and I think they win the Super Bowl. He's arguably the #2 most irreplaceable guy on the team (along with Alexander).
Yeah, CU, until the championship game we made due, but Rodgers was under too much duress that game, not as bad as first Tampa game but Bakh being there would have been huge.
And I agree on Jaire. I believe Brady threw one pass his way. Wish we would have had him on their best receiver on that first drive.
@YATittle posted:And I agree on Jaire. I believe Brady threw one pass his way. Wish we would have had him on their best receiver on that first drive.
Had to be at least 2... he picked him off twice.
I've had some time to look at some players briefly and I put together a list of some guys I think could be targets for GB. There will be a lot of fluctuation, I'm curious to see what this list looks like closer to the draft (who rose/fell). Marshall is super intriguing as he's big and explosive and Moore is small and extremely explosive, either guy looks like a perfect fit for what GB does with skill players. Mayfield is so young that even if it takes him a couple years to click he's still much younger than all his peers. Stokes is a guy I think could be in for a big rise, he's got the goods.
Trade Up Targets:
- Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah/LB/Notre Dame (21 yrs) ~15-20
- Jaycee Horn/CB/South Carolina (21 yrs) ~15-20
- Zaven Collins/LB/Tulsa (21 yrs) ~20-25
- Nick Bolton/LB/Missouri (21 yrs) ~20-25
Realistic:
- Terrace Marshall Jr./WR/LSU (20 yrs)
- Elijah Moore/WR/Ole Miss (20 yrs)
- Greg Newsome II/CB/Northwestern (21? yrs)
- Christian Barmore/DT/Alabama (21? yrs)
- Jalen Mayfield/OT/Michigan (20 yrs)
Trade Down Targets:
- Eric Stokes/CB/Georgia (22 yrs) ~35-45
- Marlon Tuipulotu/DT/USC (21 yrs) ~35-45
- James Hudson/OT/Cincinnati (21 yrs) ~35-45
On the topic of Coaches...
Who were the head coaches of the last 20 years that made it to multiple Super Bowls besides Bellichik (9)?
Tomlin (3), Reid (3), Coughlin (2), Dungy (2), Fox (2), Carroll (2). 40 Super Bowl coaches since 2000 and 23 are with 7 different guys. 17 one-and-dones...
@CUPackFan posted:And 2020 - the loss Bakhtiari was huge. He stays healthy and I think they win the Super Bowl. He's arguably the #2 most irreplaceable guy on the team (along with Alexander).
Bucs had the fortune of not having to face 2 of the top NFL LT in back-to-back games to end the season.
@Grave Digger posted:I've had some time to look at some players briefly and I put together a list of some guys I think could be targets for GB. There will be a lot of fluctuation, I'm curious to see what this list looks like closer to the draft (who rose/fell). Marshall is super intriguing as he's big and explosive and Moore is small and extremely explosive, either guy looks like a perfect fit for what GB does with skill players. Mayfield is so young that even if it takes him a couple years to click he's still much younger than all his peers. Stokes is a guy I think could be in for a big rise, he's got the goods.
Trade Up Targets:
- Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah/LB/Notre Dame (21 yrs) ~15-20
- Jaycee Horn/CB/South Carolina (21 yrs) ~15-20
- Zaven Collins/LB/Tulsa (21 yrs) ~20-25
- Nick Bolton/LB/Missouri (21 yrs) ~20-25
Realistic:
- Terrace Marshall Jr./WR/LSU (20 yrs)
- Elijah Moore/WR/Ole Miss (20 yrs)
- Greg Newsome II/CB/Northwestern (21? yrs)
- Christian Barmore/DT/Alabama (21? yrs)
- Jalen Mayfield/OT/Michigan (20 yrs)
Trade Down Targets:
- Eric Stokes/CB/Georgia (22 yrs) ~35-45
- Marlon Tuipulotu/DT/USC (21 yrs) ~35-45
- James Hudson/OT/Cincinnati (21 yrs) ~35-45
With the likely departure of P-Smiff, I think edge becomes a highly probably pick in the first 2 rounds. One of the Miami kids if they fall that far perhaps.
@The Heckler posted:Thank you for the reminder of just how stable this franchise has been for a big part of our lifetime. I put it firmly in the hands of the GMs for not winning more Super Bowls. The franchise has made some mistakes for sure (they all do) but it is quite remarkable in this salary cap era they have maintained success.
Whoever has been at the helm has overall done a great job with getting offensive players but damn they sure do swing and miss on defense. There are exceptions like when TT did a great job the year he pulled off getting Raji and Matthews but overall? not so much.
I for one am patient with Gute because he inherited a complete mess and he has been doing whatever he can to improve that roster. However, I do think this upcoming draft could be the make or break point for him.
I tend to forget how good Raji was in 2010-11. In his first 3 seasons, he had 10.5 sacks in 46 games and was an elite run stuffer. Even before his injury in 2014, he just seemed to badly regress. He played 45 games after 2011, and had 0.5 sacks.
The fact that two guys that looked like they'd be Pro Bowlers for the next 3-4 years at the start of 2011 were done as impact players after that season is what really did in that Packers defense. Nick Collins was done at age 28 and Raji was done as an elite player by 25. Usually, safeties and nose tackles can play well into their 30s. A safety like Nick Collins with elite speed could have lost a step or two and still play at a high level.
@CUPackFan posted:And 2020 - the loss Bakhtiari was huge. He stays healthy and I think they win the Super Bowl. He's arguably the #2 most irreplaceable guy on the team (along with Alexander).
2011 - loss of Nick Collins might have been the most impactful injury for the Packers in this century. A 28-year-old, 3-time Pro Bowler who ran a 4.37 playing safety. He was beginning to trend towards a Hall of Fame career.
@Music City posted:Had to be at least 2... he picked him off twice.
You were right: Jaire Alexander had an extraordinary game. Per PFF, on four targets, Alexander allowed no receptions, had a pass break-up and 2 interceptions. Amos added a third interception while Redmond dropped one that would have prevented Tampa Bay from completing the touchdown pass with six seconds left in the first half.
@Chongo posted:Bucs had the fortune of not having to face 2 of the top NFL LT in back-to-back games to end the season.
And Chiefs were also missing their starting RT, arguably the best in the NFL.
This has gotten way too little recognition in the media. Too much put on Mahomes and how great the Bucs defense was and not enough on fortunate timing of injuries.
@Chongo posted:With the likely departure of P-Smiff, I think edge becomes a highly probably pick in the first 2 rounds. One of the Miami kids if they fall that far perhaps.
Doesn’t sound like Preston is getting sent packing. We will know on the 19th when his large bonus comes due, but I thought Gutey indicated they expect him back this year.
Well I will sleep better knowing P will be back to drop into coverage