@GB-Brandon posted:Same thing with Aaron Jones. Iād much rather have the OL in tact then some star RB. Give me an ALL-Star OL and Dillion and James white on the cheap. The chains will get moved!
Aaron Rodgers disagrees with you.
@Goalline posted:Aaron Rodgers disagrees with you.
Rodgers wants a no.2 man. He wants to play pitch and catch with Devante.
@Music City posted:I disagree- every one of these mistakes were mental errors that changed the entire complexion of the game. Plays that if executed properly contribute to winning the game. Because they werenāt, they contributed directly to the loss.
This is what Bellichik, and Walsh, Lombardi, Parcells... the great coaches knew. The details. The little things. Theyāre what win Championships when the difference in a game of more than 100 plays is 3...
So they played in a vacuum with no consideration of a hard hitting defense on the field?
Isn't that what you'd call intimidating the opponent? Tampa's D was talking shit before the game and they knew they had the upper hand. GD points out Jones carry numbers and he just happens to fumble in the biggest game of the season for no reason except dumb luck or bad execution?
@GB-Brandon posted:Same thing with Aaron Jones. Iād much rather have the OL in tact then some star RB. Give me an ALL-Star OL and Dillion and James white on the cheap. The chains will get moved!
The structure of this deal favors the Packers. He produces? He gets paid. He goes south like Gurley? They can cut ties with a limited impact.
But theres another aspect of this that the Packers have been keen on dating back to the Thompson years- the Packers may not have a deep pocketed owner looking for splashes, but they try to take care of the guys who produce for them. Most of the FAs that leave Green Bay really donāt do much elsewhere. You invest in development, you need to keep that talent. Theyāve done this here with Jones.
I didn't expect Jones back, and I'm not even sure I wanted him back, but they're a better offense with him in it. If your goal is to get past the conference championship, the more continuity the better. I think it's quite a fair deal for both sides, and one more familiar face for the qb and o-line. The downside is that Williams is probably doomed. That's a bigger loss than people realize, I think.
@Henry posted:So they played in a vacuum with no consideration of a hard hitting defense on the field?
Isn't that what you'd call intimidating the opponent? Tampa's D was talking shit before the game and they knew they had the upper hand. GD points out Jones carry numbers and he just happens to fumble in the biggest game of the season for no reason except dumb luck or bad execution?
Itās the reality of āone gameā in the NFL Playoffs. You can be the better team, but you make mistakes and you lose. Thatās how less talented teams beat more talented teams all the time in the NFL. That goes back all the way to the dawn of the golden era of the game.
Talking shit doesnāt win games. Intimidation doesnāt, either. Execution does. Above all things, the legacy of the Green Bay Packers has this flowing through it. Of all fans who have followed this team and its legacy, this should be more abundantly clear than any other factor.
I think that's a pretty spot on summary for me as well. Considering the type of offense they are running, signing Jones wasn't a bad move at all but I wouldn't be completely broken up if it didn't happen. The fact remains RB signings in this day and age can be real duds. If his contract is team friendly in regards to cutting bait then it's worth it. Jones does a lot more in this offense than just run the ball. He frickin' bailed out the 2019 WR position.
Either way, considering the cap and Jones deal, the draft is that much more critical. There has to be contributors this year.
@Music City posted:Itās the reality of āone gameā in the NFL Playoffs. You can be the better team, but you make mistakes and you lose. Thatās how less talented teams beat more talented teams all the time in the NFL. That goes back all the way to the dawn of the golden era of the game.
Talking shit doesnāt win games. Intimidation doesnāt, either. Execution does. Above all things, the legacy of the Green Bay Packers has this flowing through it. Of all fans who have followed this team and its legacy, this should be more abundantly clear than any other factor.
Brady throws 3 picks, wins the Super Bowl.
@Music City posted:The structure of this deal favors the Packers. He produces? He gets paid. He goes south like Gurley? They can cut ties with a limited impact.
But theres another aspect of this that the Packers have been keen on dating back to the Thompson years- the Packers may not have a deep pocketed owner looking for splashes, but they try to take care of the guys who produce for them. Most of the FAs that leave Green Bay really donāt do much elsewhere. You invest in development, you need to keep that talent. Theyāve done this here with Jones.
If the Packers really wanted to have āBetter Leverageā I think they would of franchised tagād him. They are certainly thinking longer term.
Per NFL Network, there is not expected to be any further guaranteed money in the deal. Therefore, releasing Jones in the future would likely only cost the remaining prorated signing bonus remaining. With a $13 million signing bonus, it prorates at $3.25 million per year. Thus, releasing Jones is expected to cost $9.75 million, $6.5 million, and $3.25 million in 2022, 2023, and 2024, respectively.
Looks like they would have to eat some $ to get rid of him. Probably stuck with him at least until 2024. Possibly 2023 if things were really to go south.
@Grave Digger posted:Who guesses a street free agent DT would press Big Ben into a pop fly INT pick 6 in a SB. Shit happens.
Or that Jarrett Bush of all people would've come up with his Woodson-esque pick that set up 21-3? You add in the Matthews forced fumble and without those three plays, the Super Bowl probably goes to Pittsburgh.
The 49ers are going to pay $50 million to Kyle Juszczyk and people are gobsmacked the Packers used a third-round pick to try and find a guy to play a similar role.
ā Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) March 15, 2021
Aaron Jones showing JJ Watt what, 'signing with a contender' looks like.
ā Matt (@larsonmatt2) March 14, 2021
the Alvin Kamara guaranteed $ is WAAAY up there.
ā Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) September 12, 2020
Guaranteed RB $ on new deals:
$34.3M - Alvin Kamara
.
.
.
$30.1M - Christian McCaffrey
$28.1M - Ezekiel Elliott
$28.0M - Dalvin Cook
$27.0M - Le'Veon Bell
$25.5M - Derrick Henry
Really is a team-friendly deal from Jones and a pretty clear indication that staying in GB was a priority.
@Music City posted:Itās the reality of āone gameā in the NFL Playoffs. You can be the better team, but you make mistakes and you lose. Thatās how less talented teams beat more talented teams all the time in the NFL. That goes back all the way to the dawn of the golden era of the game.
Talking shit doesnāt win games. Intimidation doesnāt, either. Execution does. Above all things, the legacy of the Green Bay Packers has this flowing through it. Of all fans who have followed this team and its legacy, this should be more abundantly clear than any other factor.
Yes, it does happen, but almost always can be attributed to turnovers. In this game we won the turnover battle but still lost the game. Yes, Lombardi talked a lot about execution, but he also said that the game was all about "beating the man in front of you". We lost the game because on offense 4 of our 5 o-lineman got their asses handed to them and on defense Kenny Clark was the only frontage player who could win his match-up on occasion. We were in the game because of our QB but lost the game because the other team was better than us at almost every other position.
@Goalline posted:So what? Quit with the fantasy! Tell me. WHO was available to stop that? The fucking putrid DT talent in last yearās draft. What, draft another Dean Lowry? Why?
Well, the majority of picks following Green Bay's were for defensive players, many of them front-seven.
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@Boris posted:The 49ers are going to pay $50 million to Kyle Juszczyk and people are gobsmacked the Packers used a third-round pick to try and find a guy to play a similar role.
ā Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) March 15, 2021
God this idiot is fast becoming the new Joe Arrigo.
Fucking moron.
@GB-Brandon posted:Rodgers wants a no.2 man. He wants to play pitch and catch with Devante.
So every time they split Aaron Jones out, Adams is still double covered. Got it. I guess Jones being wide open or at least covered by a LB doesn't count.
@FLPACKER posted:Yes, it does happen, but almost always can be attributed to turnovers. In this game we won the turnover battle but still lost the game. Yes, Lombardi talked a lot about execution, but he also said that the game was all about "beating the man in front of you". We lost the game because on offense 4 of our 5 o-lineman got their asses handed to them and on defense Kenny Clark was the only frontage player who could win his match-up on occasion. We were in the game because of our QB but lost the game because the other team was better than us at almost every other position.
Yeah, but legacy.
@Phil posted:Or that Jarrett Bush of all people would've come up with his Woodson-esque pick that set up 21-3? You add in the Matthews forced fumble and without those three plays, the Super Bowl probably goes to Pittsburgh.
The amazing thing about all 3 of those examples is they occurred on defense.
@GB-Brandon posted:It drives me crazy! Youāll hear all these people talking āCorner, Corner, Cornerā and itās just so ass backwards.
Get physical and disruptive upfront! Itās not rocket science!
Thatās literally the exact opposite of how the Rams had the top defense in the NFL and thatās the NFL trend. Itās also the defense/scheme that we pulled from for our DC, so I think the people shouting for a CB are probably right on the money. CB2 and further depth might be the biggest hole on the team.
The reality is that 3 down big men are difficult to find, just like Bobby Wagnerās and Fred Warnerās are hard to find at ILB. If they were easy to find then everyone would have them. Tampa, save for drafting Vea early after one of their frequent down years, had to rent their pass rusher for 1 year only. Thatās becoming the trend of how to get over the hump. Maybe Gute should have rented a better ILB, difference makers there donāt generally hit UFA. I doubt anyone internally is satisfied with Lowry as the starter and I anticipate a UFA to be signed to replace him.
@GBFanForLife posted:Lowry and Lancaster didn't lose the game. Aaron fucking Jones contributed and Aaron fucking Rodgers contributed.
Blasphemy
You could argue Jones is like having another decent WR the way he is used in this offense. Yes, he sucked against Tampa, but he was a key cog the entire season and most defenses need to account for the guy.
To me, the next move I see is reworking Zās contract and extending Tonyan. Ideally, they figure out a way to add a corner or DE in free agency but Iām not holding my breath.
Jones was one of the top free agents available period, but truly one of the top offensive weapons in free agency. He would have gotten a bigger deal from a cash rich team, but he chose to stay in GB. Again I think that speaks to the culture MLF has cultivated in GB...theyāve shipped out assholes like Damarious Randall, signed quality leaders like ZSmith, and gotten serious buy in from vets like Aaron Rodgers. Ultimately THAT is the reason this team will win a SB before Rodgers time is up. Todd Bowles is a great coordinator, but itās the effort and attitude he and Arians cultivated on defense that ultimately made the difference. Same deal as the Seahawks when their defense was elite, same as all the SB winning defenses. Being 15 deep in elite talent on defense is great, but ultimately getting them to play an aggressive and smart style is another issue.
@ammo posted:So every time they split Aaron Jones out, Adams is still double covered. Got it. I guess Jones being wide open or at least covered by a LB doesn't count.
Yeah, thatās a nice wrinkle and those matchups come against certain looks. Typically against base defenseās in early downs but this just scrapes the surface of what the VISION should be on upgrading the Packers offense and making it bullet proof!
People are taking this as though I donāt like Aj and what he does and thatās not the case at all. I just believe they could of gotten a bigger bang for the buck as far making the offense more complete doing things differently. I donāt think they needed to go āAll-Inā on a RB unless the plan is to help out a young QB in the near future . I have no problem with Dillon(drafted in round 2) being the feature back and signing a bargain FA option like James White or drafting a guy like Diametric Felton. You do that and get the No.2 then the overall sum of parts is better fortified to hold up against certain pressing defenses IMO. Itās just a better standard to keep Devante clean in 1 on 1 coverage more often which is really the bread and butter when you get into that 3rd down situation needing to convert!!!
Yeah I mean if they do that maybe they will become the #1 offense! š
Im joking, but there is a legit debate about paying a RB big money vs trying to moneyball the position. I think it comes down to Jones role and what he offers. Yes James White offers some versatility, but heās not close to Jones as a runner or receiver. Heās a 3rd down back only, Jones is a 3 down back. Ideally I think what GB wants from their skill group is not to have to sub, so keeping Adams, Jones, Tonyan, Deguara, and another receiver allows you to, in theory, not tip your hand to the defense over a whole drive. Jones does everything at an all pro level and is also an elite character guy. Youāre paying for skill, versatility, and culture fit. If you think of him in the content of a traditional RB then yes I donāt like the big spending, but if you look at him in the Christian McCaffrey or Alvin Kamara context then itās just fine.
I would add that NO ONE is against adding another elite receiver, everyone would love to have another Adams next to Adams. Lazard and MVS are not horrible though, both add tremendous value and have Rodgers confidence.
Lazard and MVS have excelled at blocking downfield this past season and that has paid dividends. Both seem to work at it. Tonyan, on the other hand, still needs to work on this...
@Goalline posted:Truth.
2 years ago I realized how delusional the sports fan was. You read 2 hours of draft materials and think you know more than guys working 15 hour days absorbing draft information. Watching guys on tape and in person , reading reports, digging up opinions on other teams etc.
They have to deal in reality. You canāt even tell me who Gute should have picked in the first round to shore up our DL.
I started ignoring the draft until the players were picked and reading/watching everything about the drafted players after that. I no longer think I am some kind of super scout who knows better than the pros, like most fans seem to think. More to the point, I find it hilarious when fans act like they actually know. You donāt!
Totally agree with this. Many on this site surely know a lot about football, we are, after all, Fan-atics. I would guess that most of our knowledge centers on watching and reading about the Packers extensively, and catching a lot of other NFL games that provide us exposure to other teams and players. When it comes to college, however, I am guessing the majority follow one team pretty exclusively, whether it is a program like Wisconsin, Iowa, or Notre Dame.....and there are simply too many Division I programs to possibly be educated enough on the talent out there, let alone the lower levels where Tampa Bay scouts found Ali Marpet at tiny DIv III Hobart College. That's why it's hard for me to immediately question the decisions of a GM and a professional scouting department without seeing a player perform on the field for a couple of years.
Also, another poster here hit on a pet peeve that I share: could "have" and should "have".... not could "of". Then again, maybe I'm just being petty, like when people say Happy New "Years", instead of Happy New "Year".
The Bottom Line is if you walked away from watching the NFC Champ game and still think we donāt need improvement at the WR position then you never will! Yes, it was physical and grabby but WHEN IT COUNTED our guys died a SlOW DEATH out there. They couldnāt beat press and couldnāt separate. Adams was getting doubled. Drops came back to haunt us as well and mistakes.
You pick Tom Brady off 3 times in the 2nd half at home and you canāt secure the Victory? Sorry, the defense did itās part. They had three chances to get it done! You have BETTER WEAPONS or comparable to what Brady had and Rodgers WINS THAT GAME FOR US!
This is how they could of cracked that code! The difference between āWinning & Losingā!!
they paid a RB instead!
@FLPACKER posted:Yes, it does happen, but almost always can be attributed to turnovers. In this game we won the turnover battle but still lost the game. Yes, Lombardi talked a lot about execution, but he also said that the game was all about "beating the man in front of you". We lost the game because on offense 4 of our 5 o-lineman got their asses handed to them and on defense Kenny Clark was the only frontage player who could win his match-up on occasion. We were in the game because of our QB but lost the game because the other team was better than us at almost every other position.
I donāt agree that 4 of 5 guys got their asses handed to them. The offense scored 3 TDs and should have had a 4th if not for a dropped pass by someone the consensus calls the best player at his position in the NFL. The previous year against SF? Thatās called getting your ass handed to you...
I guess I watched a different game
I saw MVS smoke one of the Tampa corners for a long TD.
I also saw Davante misplay or drop a few that he normally catches, including a TD.
Iām as much a Lazard critic as there is, but yes he was interfered with (several times) during the game and that was obvious for anyone to see.
I donāt care if we had Tyreke Hill in that game our OL had no chance so this āif we had another WRā banter really doesnāt mean much just as it didnāt for the Chiefs in the Super Bowl.
Not having Bak and playing a banged up Wagner at RT (instead of Turner) ended up being a significant issue.
That offense scored 26 and 32 against top 5 defenses in back to back weeks...without their all pro LT I might add. In fact they scored exactly 17 more points than the stacked Chiefs skill group did 2 weeks later. The defense did a good save for 2 key plays. The offense did well, any time you score 26 points in the NFL you SHOULD win the game. Being within 6 points despite giving up 2 fluke TDs does not speak to an offense that failed.
Thatās not to say GB doesnāt need to improve at positions, including WR2. Lazard is good and will improve, but heās never going to be in Adams class, no reason NOT to add another elite weapon. Even if you drill down on each position weāre still solid across the board, just not 3 deep in elite players. You can drill down on every team though and point to weaknesses or shallow position groups, itās not a crisis that GB does not have an elite #2 (as evidenced by the #1 scoring offense and the NFL MVP).
@Tschmack posted:I guess I watched a different game
I saw MVS smoke one of the Tampa corners for a long TD.
I also saw Davante misplay or drop a few that he normally catches, including a TD.
Iām as much a Lazard critic as there is, but yes he was interfered with (several times) during the game and that was obvious for anyone to see.
I donāt care if we had Tyreke Hill in that game our OL had no chance so this āif we had another WRā banter really doesnāt mean much just as it didnāt for the Chiefs in the Super Bowl.
Not having Bak and playing a banged up Wagner at RT (instead of Turner) ended up being a significant issue.
The Chiefs never had a chance as they were obliterated on the OL. The Packers did miss Bak and there was some pressure but was nowhere near the pressure in the Chiefs game.
The Packer offense stalled and couldnāt get it done late.
One other thing - āwe need more weaponsā yet I would argue Aaron Jones is or was the best FA out there. The Packers are running him back. Hope they do the same with Tonyan.
This isnāt Madden 2021 where you create players or make ridiculous trades. Yes we would gladly take a stud WR. But no team is deep enough to turn away good players. Adding a FA WR means someone else may need to go. About the only positions that makes sense are DE and probably ILB. WR isnāt the same.
@Goalline posted:2 years ago I realized how delusional the sports fan was. You read 2 hours of draft materials and think you know more than guys working 15 hour days absorbing draft information. Watching guys on tape and in person , reading reports, digging up opinions on other teams etc.
Might I remind you about the time I hit on 27 first round draft picks?
JFC! The Packers tackles were obliterated in that game. Wagner and Turner were awful. The Packers O and D just executed better than KC, but they also left a lot of plays (opportunities) on the field.
It also helps playing Pat Mahomes when heās 75%. Clearly, his toe/foot issue was jacked up and he had a lot of troublE moving around.
I think they lost the game when they couldn't even get a single first down after both of Jarie's picks in the second half. Failure to capitalize on turnovers- the same thing that doomed them in the Seattle playoff choke.
Iām Fucken done with it!!!!! Itās just more RECKLESS BEHAVIOR by Gute. Chasing Unicorns in the draft and overvaluing the RB position as he continues to starve the receiver position out!!!
Should of figured this was the route he would go!!
@GB-Brandon posted:Iām Fucken done with it!!!!! Itās just more RECKLESS BEHAVIOR by Gute. Chasing Unicorns in the draft and overvaluing the RB position as he continues to starve the receiver position out!!!
What does this even mean? No one is forcing you to watch Packer news or reply in this forum. Close the lid on your laptop if you canāt handle the news.
it might behoove you to consider a little humility in regards to someone elseās job that you have no clue how to do!